NHLPA Fehr wants to address issue of fighting

[LadyStanley]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...ctor-fehr-wants-to-address-issue-of-fighting/

(With quotes translated by computer from French, from agents)

“Nothing concrete has been announced to us, but I felt that Fehr was motivated by a genuine desire to address the issue of fighting,” said agent Robert Sauvé.

Former NHL player Gilles Lupien, who isn’t happy about the state of violence in hockey, was also in attendance.

“Fehr told us he was trying to understand the dynamics of fights and he was struggling to understand an athlete can get to defeat another or to injure him in the course of a game. It is a culture that has not known when was working in other sports,” Lupien explained.

Link to cited/original article (French): http://blogues.radio-canada.ca/blog...-fehr-veut-eliminer-les-bagarres-dans-la-lnh/

 

[ScottyBowman]

There is only one way to address it and that is to eliminate it. If they don't eliminate it, then the lawsuits will start raining down hard just like the what the NFL is dealing with. Fighting is dumb and a big waste of everyones time and most importantly its uncivilized.

 

[Lionel Mandrake]

There is only one way to address it and that is to eliminate it. If they don't eliminate it, then the lawsuits will start raining down hard just like the what the NFL is dealing with. Fighting is dumb and a big waste of everyones time and most importantly its uncivilized.

Agreed! Now waiting for the tomatoes to rain...

 

[thom]

[MOD] It is a choice Lupien is a ****** hypocrite.He played in the 70'-s where bowman would order Lupien chartraw Bouchard to break heads.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

There is no issue with fighting.

 

[Wheathead]

So if the NHLPA head has this issue, do the NHL players want fighting out of the game? Or is Fehr flappin' his gums again?

 

[Fugu]

So if the NHLPA head has this issue, do the NHL players want fighting out of the game? Or is Fehr flappin' his gums again?

The article implies he wishes to understand the culture, and that he hasn't seen the deliberate intent to injure each other in the other sports.

At the end of the day, it's an environment where his constituents are allowed to hurt each other, even if it's a voluntary matter. Then you factor in the concussion issues (e.g., Boogard), and you can see the legal and business interest from that perspective.

 

[Primary Assist]

this issue's been debated a million times by minds much more capable than my own, but taking fighting out of the game will result in a complete attitude and paradigm shift in the NHL. What if a competitor league a la the WHA springs up that allows fighting? Granted it would probably flounder like the XFL, but the rough and tumble aspect of hockey is one of the most defining traits of the game. Keep in mind this game was invented by rugby players who needed to find something to keep busy in the winter.

 

[Fugu]

this issue's been debated a million times by minds much more capable than my own, but taking fighting out of the game will result in a complete attitude and paradigm shift in the NHL. What if a competitor league a la the WHA springs up that allows fighting? Granted it would probably flounder like the XFL, but the rough and tumble aspect of hockey is one of the most defining traits of the game. Keep in mind this game was invented by rugby players who needed to find something to keep busy in the winter.

I'm not as big of a historian of the game as some of our HOH regulars, but I was under the impression that fighting was not always part of the game. The fact that the sport may resemble rugby (as does football) doesn't necessarily mean that fighting is an automatic prerequisite. The NFL doesn't allow it.

 

[Wingsfan2965*]

With a 98% approval rate in the last player's poll I highly doubt they want it out.

But I've always said if you don't like contact sports, go watch the NBA, because we don't want you here.

 

[Fugu]

With a 98% approval rate in the last player's poll I highly doubt they want it out.

But I've always said if you don't like contact sports, go watch the NBA, because we don't want you here.

That's fairly ridiculous to say, Wingsfan. I love hockey, and don't love fighting. I think I'll stay, thank you.

That said, this isn't about personal preferences, but about injuries, concussions, whether or not players are pressured to fight, etc. Legal and medical issues.

 

[LadyStanley]

Most of the concussions, as well as the sub-concussive impacts, seem to come from hits (legal and illegal) that have the bearing on the health of the player (as I've gleaned from reading the materials).

So, even if fighting was removed, until all hitting (including head hits) was removed, there would still be concussions and possible head trauma with long term effects.

 

[Fugu]

Most of the concussions, as well as the sub-concussive impacts, seem to come from hits (legal and illegal) that have the bearing on the health of the player (as I've gleaned from reading the materials).

So, even if fighting was removed, until all hitting (including head hits) was removed, there would still be concussions and possible head trauma with long term effects.

That's also beside the point. No one is claiming that all concussions come from fighting. It's an attempt to discuss the impact (ha) fighting does have. That other points remain doesn't mean this one is invalidated.

 

[rasarhdasd]

The NHL acknowledging brain injury due to fighting (Boogard), yet not banning it will lead to some interesting cases down the road.

 

[ScottyBowman]

The NHL acknowledging brain injury due to fighting (Boogard), yet not banning it will lead to some interesting cases down the road.

Yup. I can't imagine getting punched in the head over and over again is healthy.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Keep in mind this game was invented by rugby players who needed to find something to keep busy in the winter.

This is the 1st I've ever heard of this. I thought British soldiers invented the game.

 

[Killion]

The NHL acknowledging brain injury due to fighting (Boogard), yet not banning it will lead to some interesting cases down the road.

Certainly will. Very interesting, and possibly huge awards, settlements... I came up playing during the real rise of fighting late 60's through the early 70's, entire teams basically Goon Squads at the Junior & elite amateur levels. Insanity. Mayhem. Anarchy. Games called. Guys scraped up off the ice with putty knives & squeegee's, once promising careers over. Its an anachronism of the past, should be banned, outlawed altogether and likely will be but only after some multi multi multi million dollar settlements are awarded, and in this age of litigation, could happen at anytime...

 

[Wingsfan2965*]

The NHL acknowledging brain injury due to fighting (Boogard), yet not banning it will lead to some interesting cases down the road.

Player approval rating should uphold it pretty well.

And I always found the "The player wasn't aware of the danger they were being subjected to" to be funny...

 

[jughead42*]

That's fairly ridiculous to say, Wingsfan. I love hockey, and don't love fighting. I think I'll stay, thank you.

That said, this isn't about personal preferences, but about injuries, concussions, whether or not players are pressured to fight, etc. Legal and medical issues.

That's like saying you love the beach but don't like picking sand out of your crack. It's all part of the package dude. It's like saying you like Chinese food but don't like the rice. They shouldn't have to take it off the menu to satisfy your individual tastes, and the "legal and medical" aspect of fighting is only an issue when people with an anti fighting agenda decide they want to make it one.

 

[Fugu]

That's like saying you love the beach but don't like picking sand out of your crack. It's all part of the package dude. It's like saying you like Chinese food but don't like the rice. They shouldn't have to take it off the menu to satisfy your individual tastes, and the "legal and medical" aspect of fighting is only an issue when people with an anti fighting agenda decide they want to make it one.

Nope, it's not saying that at all. Been watching hockey since ~1970. The game has evolved over time, and continues to do so. Some things we like, others not so much. I accept fighting as part of the game, but I'm not a fan of fighting per se.

 

[Ugmo]

My opinion is that the fighting makes hockey less legitimate as a sport. It's like taking a break in the middle of an actual athletic competition for a pro wrestling sideshow. 100 percent contrived. I don't have such a big problem when a fight happens organically because two players have been getting on each other's nerves all game, but actually having a guy on your roster whose entire job is to fight his counterpart on another team's roster is silly. And as uncivilized as the fighting itself is, the fans' reaction is even worse. Watching everyone from old ladies to little kids cheering because two people who ostensibly are there to play hockey start bare knuckles brawling is disconcerting!

 

[HHHH]

For the sake of argument, how could the NHL eliminate fighting?

Don Sanderson is the only player know of who died as a direct result of a fight, and he was playing in a league that carried an automatic ejection for fighting. Are there any leagues that have harsher penalties for fighting, and is it something that can be legislated out of the game by rules, fines, suspensions etc.?

I am not arguing that fighting should or should not be banned, I am asking whether it logistically could be...

 

[hatterson]

With a 98% approval rate in the last player's poll I highly doubt they want it out.

But I've always said if you don't like contact sports, go watch the NBA, because we don't want you here.

It's entirely possible to like contact sports but also not like fighting.

The NFL is very much a contact sport but fighting isn't a part of it. You'd be hard pressed to find a fan who thinks that a corner back and a wide receiver should be able to pull their helmets off and start throwing hay makers when the DB was a little rough at the scrimmage line.

That's like saying you love the beach but don't like picking sand out of your crack. It's all part of the package dude. It's like saying you like Chinese food but don't like the rice. They shouldn't have to take it off the menu to satisfy your individual tastes, and the "legal and medical" aspect of fighting is only an issue when people with an anti fighting agenda decide they want to make it one.

I don't have an anti-fighting agenda. I enjoy it in the game and I believe it plays a valuable role in terms of policing players (since the league fails so hard at doing that on it's own). Fights are basically the only event that are guaranteed to get me into the room if I'm elsewhere in the house.

However, the evidence is mounting, to the point that it can't reasonably be denied, that fighting contributes to brain damage. Regardless of my feelings on the issue, I recognize that fact causes significant legal issues for the league.

It's not a matter of just saying "well the players agreed to it so the NHL is in the clear" because it's not an opinion case, it's a legal one. Our opinions don't matter, the legal interpretation of the liability the league has matters.

Fighting is something that is illegal in the NHL. Every time it occurs it results in a major penalty and there are many parts of the rule books that stipulate game misconducts or a match penalty.

For the NHL to have something be against the rules, but yet encourage a culture of it occurring (which there is no doubt it does with fighting) only serves to *increase* the the legal liability held against them.

It's not a case of whether I, or Fugu, or anyone dislike fighting. The injuries caused by fighting are real and the NHL will need to address them in some way to prevent itself from being sued out of existence, similar to how the NFL needs to do something with headshots.

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

The comment about the hockey "culture" is what bothers me the most. Fehr, as always, comes off arrogant and judgmental. You know what? Americans don't get to come in and spout off about Canadian hockey culture like they're so superior. At least not until something is done about the "culture" in football that renders the average lineman a drooling, brain-addled mess by 45.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

I've reached the point where I'd be totally fine with fighting being done away with. Staged fights are the worst things going on in pro sports today. You get so few 'meaningful' fights these days, that I wouldn't have much a problem handing out suspensions for when things do end up boiling over. I've long been a proponent that fighting keeps the game safer from sticks flying around and other violence, but I don't think it makes much a difference anymore.