NHL will ruin International hockey

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That's a terrible idea, honestly. It helps nothing and punishes citizens of many countries.

More competitive international hockey. Bigger interest.
It doesn't "help nothing", it helps keep mercenaries out of international hockey.

The idea that having mercenaries results in bigger interest is laughable: in none of the countries that used them did interest increase. Why in the world would people be interested by a bunch of foreigners? That doesn't make any sense.
 
They're not mercenaries. As citizens they should have an opportunity to represent that country. Perhaps is does damage if the entire or vast majority of the team is made up of dual citizens, but there are better ways to handle that issue than how it is currently.
 
It doesn't "help nothing", it helps keep mercenaries out of international hockey.

The idea that having mercenaries results in bigger interest is laughable: in none of the countries that used them did interest increase. Why in the world would people be interested by a bunch of foreigners? That doesn't make any sense.

Mercenaries? Foreigners?
 
100 plus posts over one of the dumbest topics I have seen on here in a while.

if you want this problem to stop no one is looking at the real reason why this is happening:

our women are hotter.

plain and freaking simple.

tell your Canadian heroes to stop impregnating our hot women and problem solved.

Too funny lol. :handclap:
 
Mercenaries? Foreigners?

Yes. Look at countries like Croatia, Kazakhstan, or Belarus. They have all recently started naturalizing Canadians (and a few Americans) with the express purpose of having them on the national team and helping get results on the international stage. Croatia is perhaps the most notorious recent example, but at least a few of their players have Croatian ancestry (though others do not). The same can not be said about someone like Kevin Dallman, who is now technically Kazakhstani (as are Nigel Dawes, Brendan Bochenski, and a few others now), or recent Belarusian national Kevin Lalonde.

This is readily apparent for a country like Kazakhstan. Until a couple years ago, they were making considerable profits from oil and natural gas, and spending large amounts on sports. The hockey program was not exempt from this, and saw a lot of money come in. While I won't say that these players were paid to adopt Kazakhstani citizenship, it certainly would not be surprising if they saw some benefits from doing so, especially as a Kazakhstani passport is useless unless one wants to tour the Former Soviet Union visa-free.
 
The age old misconception is that naturalizing imports creates a stronger more competitive team. Let's look at the last best on best tournament, the Olympics of Sochi 2014, and see how many teams played naturalized imports. Not Canada, not the USA, not Sweden, not Russia, not Finland, not the Czech Republic, not Latvia, not Slovenia, not Switzerland, not Austria, not Slovakia, not Norway, hmmm...seems like there's a trend here. Now let's name the teams who did _____. None of the 12 teams, what a stunner. Out of the 16 national teams at the WHC we rotate each year between having 1 team or 2 teams with imports. Belarus with Russian imports and Kazakhstan with North American ones will be featured this year, and likely next year it'll be back to just Belarus. That's 1 or 2 out of 16 teams. There is actually a reason for this too. When you naturalize imports, especially for the low profile leagues like the British or the Italian league, the best players you can get are anywhere from decent CHL grads, to your best scenario the fringe ECHL player who also played like 10 games in the AHL. So when you say "oh it'll make the team more competitive" what you really mean to say is competitive like the Florida Panthers (NHL) vs the Orlando Solar Bears (ECHL), and that sounds wonderfully entertaining. Hungary gets a lot of press for moving from imports to natural players but most countries are starting to go locally raised because when you raise your own talent there is no ceiling for how great you can become.
 
Croatia is perhaps the most notorious recent example, but at least a few of their players have Croatian ancestry (though others do not). The same can not be said about someone like Kevin Dallman, who is now technically Kazakhstani (as are Nigel Dawes, Brendan Bochenski, and a few others now), or recent Belarusian national Kevin Lalonde.
Their ancestry makes no difference whatsoever.

At least the likes of Dallman did play in Kazakhstan for several seasons. I don't see why other dual nationals can't be required to do the same. That shouldn't be too much too ask if they are the "patriots" they're made out to be.
 
The age old misconception is that naturalizing imports creates a stronger more competitive team. Let's look at the last best on best tournament, the Olympics of Sochi 2014, and see how many teams played naturalized imports. Not Canada, not the USA, not Sweden, not Russia, not Finland, not the Czech Republic, not Latvia, not Slovenia, not Switzerland, not Austria, not Slovakia, not Norway, hmmm...seems like there's a trend here. Now let's name the teams who did _____. None of the 12 teams, what a stunner. Out of the 16 national teams at the WHC we rotate each year between having 1 team or 2 teams with imports. Belarus with Russian imports and Kazakhstan with North American ones will be featured this year, and likely next year it'll be back to just Belarus. That's 1 or 2 out of 16 teams. There is actually a reason for this too. When you naturalize imports, especially for the low profile leagues like the British or the Italian league, the best players you can get are anywhere from decent CHL grads, to your best scenario the fringe ECHL player who also played like 10 games in the AHL. So when you say "oh it'll make the team more competitive" what you really mean to say is competitive like the Florida Panthers (NHL) vs the Orlando Solar Bears (ECHL), and that sounds wonderfully entertaining. Hungary gets a lot of press for moving from imports to natural players but most countries are starting to go locally raised because when you raise your own talent there is no ceiling for how great you can become.

More likely explanation is that countries that don't care about hockey (like Britain) aren't going to care regardless of if half their team is born in Ontario or not. Hence the reason they are **** and need players from Ontario.
 
More likely explanation is that countries that don't care about hockey (like Britain) aren't going to care regardless of if half their team is born in Ontario or not. Hence the reason they are **** and need players from Ontario.
I'm very impressed by this smart Alec comment with no research behind it. If you didn't know both the GBR team and the Italian team are trending towards home grown. Also, to assume that a business is operating on the assumption that people do not care about their product and will not care rather than following a proven model for success, this logic is getting more and more impressive as we go along.
 
The problem is that one day very soon is that there will be very little competition left at the international level.

There will always be competitiveness in International Hockey. Kids playing for a country, where their parents were not born, will make no difference.

It's no longer about sport or hockey it's only about money.

The NHL has always been about making money. The current NHL owners were business men before and would not get into ownership of a team if it were just about sport and hockey.
 
I'm very impressed by this smart Alec comment with no research behind it. If you didn't know both the GBR team and the Italian team are trending towards home grown. Also, to assume that a business is operating on the assumption that people do not care about their product and will not care rather than following a proven model for success, this logic is getting more and more impressive as we go along.

Don't even know what you're on about here.

Hockey's popularity in Britain and Italy is completely divorced from how many foreign born players are in the team. Having a completely native born team won't make the sport more popular either way.
 
The age old misconception is that naturalizing imports creates a stronger more competitive team. Let's look at the last best on best tournament, the Olympics of Sochi 2014, and see how many teams played naturalized imports. Not Canada, not the USA, not Sweden, not Russia, not Finland, not the Czech Republic, not Latvia, not Slovenia, not Switzerland, not Austria, not Slovakia, not Norway, hmmm...seems like there's a trend here. Now let's name the teams who did _____. None of the 12 teams, what a stunner. Out of the 16 national teams at the WHC we rotate each year between having 1 team or 2 teams with imports. Belarus with Russian imports and Kazakhstan with North American ones will be featured this year, and likely next year it'll be back to just Belarus. That's 1 or 2 out of 16 teams. There is actually a reason for this too. When you naturalize imports, especially for the low profile leagues like the British or the Italian league, the best players you can get are anywhere from decent CHL grads, to your best scenario the fringe ECHL player who also played like 10 games in the AHL. So when you say "oh it'll make the team more competitive" what you really mean to say is competitive like the Florida Panthers (NHL) vs the Orlando Solar Bears (ECHL), and that sounds wonderfully entertaining. Hungary gets a lot of press for moving from imports to natural players but most countries are starting to go locally raised because when you raise your own talent there is no ceiling for how great you can become.

Minor note: Ryan Gardner played for the Swiss, and he was born and raised in Ontario. Granted he's also played in Switzerland since 1997, so isn't exactly a one-off. Not that it changes the narrative here, just for pedantry.

Was surprised it was only one import on the teams, I thought for sure Austria still had a few others on their team.
 
Their ancestry makes no difference whatsoever.

At least the likes of Dallman did play in Kazakhstan for several seasons. I don't see why other dual nationals can't be required to do the same. That shouldn't be too much too ask if they are the "patriots" they're made out to be.

I totally agree. My point was more that while the listed countries go for Canadians, the Croatians have made an effort to target those with Croatian ancestry, whereas the Kazakhstanis and Belarusians go for anyone. Its also been a selling point for Croatia, a means to return to their ancestral homeland.
 
Don't even know what you're on about here.

Hockey's popularity in Britain and Italy is completely divorced from how many foreign born players are in the team. Having a completely native born team won't make the sport more popular either way.
No, winning does, and having a native born national team in the long run helps win games.

Kaiser Matias, nice catch there, they probably justify it to themselves by saying that he played one year of juniors there but tisk tisk, shame Switzerland you can do better than that. And haha Austria hasn't used them in a while, they do have some sons of people who played here but they all grew up in Austria. They missed 2 Olympics because of it (and also the move from 14 to 12 teams) but in the process produced better players than they would have been able to naturalize. Slovenia's local league isn't good enough for imports and neither is Norway's. Latvia, well Dinamo Riga would rather lose every game than play 10 imports and with Latvia there's also a pride factor.
 
Brian Lebler
http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/sports/240202381.html


And Damon Puntus, who played last year at the WJC, was raised in Switzerland.
Lebler was born in Klagenfurt, Austria and spent more than four and a half years there before he moved. Puntus was solely Austrian for years before he got a Swiss license so that he could not count against the foreign contingent, the Swiss actually naturalized his brother Jason for their purposes. Viveiros was born in Canada but spent 6 months a year until he was like 15 or 16 in Austria. Steven Strong was born in Villach and raised there for four and a half years before moving back to Toronto. Either Strong or Lebler or both I forgot which articles went back to visit Austria with their dads multiple times even after they moved back. Each of these can claim Austrian roots, each of these already had Austrian citizenship as children but because of dual citizenship had to fulfill the 2 year clause, except Puntus because he was Austrian before Swiss.

So were they each trained in non-Austrian youth programs? Well yes, but culturally they can claim roots back to Austria and the Austrian people accept them as Austrian, not as imported national team players. Lebler ended up becoming a great player, but as your article said that even when he first got to Europe he wanted to become one of the best Austrians, because at the time they'd already let him know he would play for us, even though at the time he was a so-so ECHL player and a complete AHL bust. We've wanted to play Strong for years, and he was a mediocre CIS defender at best, and Viveiros was pretty good in the WHL but if we wanted to import players we could have much much better players than a bad ECHL player, a bottom half CIS defenseman and a good but not great WHL D-man grad. Our average import usually has already played in the AHL and other top European leagues. The reason these guys were signed in the first place was because they are culturally accepted as Austrians and Austrian fans are really big on giving our boys a chance.
 
If it was up to me, here's how I'd arrange the citizenship rulings...

Player, who's been a citizen of the country he wishes to represent before his 15th birthday: Free to play for that country. No ifs, no buts. Dual citizens get to choose.

Has acquired the citizenship after he's turned 15, but has not represented another country: Three years of hockey in said country. Yes, I'd up it a notch from the two it is now. Simply to make it a tad harder to naturalize mercenaries.

Has represented another country, wishes to switch jerseys: Four years, exactly as it is now. No matter whether the player's been a citizen before his 15th birthday or not.
 
If it was up to me, here's how I'd arrange the citizenship rulings...

Player, who's been a citizen of the country he wishes to represent before his 15th birthday: Free to play for that country. No ifs, no buts. Dual citizens get to choose.
What exactly is achieved by letting oriundi play for the country of their grandparents when they never played or even lived there themselves?
 
What exactly is achieved by letting oriundi play for the country of their grandparents when they never played or even lived there themselves?
Because there are cases, where both parents are from said country, they just work abroad and even visit the home base regularly, but never stay long enough for the kid to play for the required amount. It's those cases this ruling would eliminate. And since it's the 21st century, this is not even rare anymore.

Perhaps it would also mean that there'd be players with little ties to the country they represent besides jus sanguinis acquired at birth. But it's hard, perhaps impossible, to create separate rulings for these and the former. And if that's the price of eliminating the issue with cases where the cultural ties are undeniable but some arbitrary requirements of having played there are not filled - then so be it.
 
Perhaps it would also mean that there'd be players with little ties to the country they represent besides jus sanguinis acquired at birth. But it's hard, perhaps impossible, to create separate rulings for these and the former. And if that's the price of eliminating the issue with cases where the cultural ties are undeniable but some arbitrary requirements of having played there are not filled - then so be it.
I'd rather eliminate the players with "cultural ties" that never lived in the country. Really it's a hockey team, not a cultural team, people's "cultural ties" shouldn't matter.
 
So it was the other way around, thanks for that
Yeah, no problem. There are some Austrian teams in the Swiss youth league, I don't quite get it but SC Rheintal and Pikes Oberthurgau are majority Austrian among the youth. But then we have other players who go to ZSC and Lugano and Davis like any other country.
 

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