NHL wants to expand to 36 teams

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Based on the OP graphic:

Atlanta - It’s one of the top markets on the continent and can easily support a team. They shouldn’t be judged on what happened with an all-time horrible ownership group.

Cincinnati - Too small to have 3 major league teams. The team might survive but it would be a weak entry.

Houston - Absolute no-brainer, should have been done 50 years ago.

Kansas City - Similar to Cincy. A team could be viable there but it doesn’t feel like a 3-team market.

New Orleans - This would be a disaster.

Omaha - Just a bit too small. Omaha is a smaller market than Dayton or Rochester, which are obviously too small.

Phoenix - See Atlanta. Do it right this time.

Milwaukee - My only hesitation is saturation with the Bucks and Brewers. But I could see this turning up aces.

Sacramento - This is another sneaky smart one. There’s no reason Salt Lake can work and Sacramento can’t.

Markham
Hamilton
Kitchener
- Combining these are they’re basically the same idea. I don’t think splitting the Toronto market is smart at all. Creating a White Sox or Clippers situation does nothing positive.

Quebec City - It just isn’t a major league city, and wishing really hard for it to be one won’t make it so. It’s a good emergency option if a team needs to play somewhere temporarily in a pinch.
I agree that Cincinnati is too small for another team. Hockey doesn't do well there.

In Milwaukee, you forgot about the Packers. We are still a home city for them after 30 years of no games here.

The City of Dayton has half the population that it had 40 years ago. The Dayton Flyers have that market sewn up!

As somebody who lived in SW Ohio for 22 years, I think that I know more about the Gem City and the Queen City than you do.

Rochester is similar to the above. The subway stopped running decades ago.
 
Honest question......why not Hartford. The metro area has a population of over 1 million people.

A return of the whalers would be sick. I want to see a complete rollback of former teams in the expansion.

Houston Aeros
Atlanta Thrashers - with better colour scheme and jerseys
Hartford Whalers
Quebec Nordiques

I am also not adverse to a second GTA team when someone needs to relocate.

Toronto Titans anyone?
 
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A 2nd team in Toronto would be hilarious, they should just start their own professional hockey league with 6 teams so the city will be guaranteed a Championship. 6 is the magic number since they haven't won anything since there were 6 teams in the league.
 
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Honest question......why not Hartford. The metro area has a population of over 1 million people.
While I'd love to see Hartford return, they'd need a new arena, and that's never going to happen.

As far as a second Toronto-area team, the precedent was already set a long time ago with the Rangers, Islanders and Devils, so personally I don't see the issue with adding another team. However, the Leafs and Sabres would absolutely shut any attempt down of that.
 
Based on the OP graphic:

Atlanta - It’s one of the top markets on the continent and can easily support a team. They shouldn’t be judged on what happened with an all-time horrible ownership group.

Cincinnati - Too small to have 3 major league teams. The team might survive but it would be a weak entry.

Houston - Absolute no-brainer, should have been done 50 years ago.

Kansas City - Similar to Cincy. A team could be viable there but it doesn’t feel like a 3-team market.

New Orleans - This would be a disaster.

Omaha - Just a bit too small. Omaha is a smaller market than Dayton or Rochester, which are obviously too small.

Phoenix - See Atlanta. Do it right this time.

Milwaukee - My only hesitation is saturation with the Bucks and Brewers. But I could see this turning up aces.

Sacramento - This is another sneaky smart one. There’s no reason Salt Lake can work and Sacramento can’t.

Markham
Hamilton
Kitchener
- Combining these are they’re basically the same idea. I don’t think splitting the Toronto market is smart at all. Creating a White Sox or Clippers situation does nothing positive.

Quebec City - It just isn’t a major league city, and wishing really hard for it to be one won’t make it so. It’s a good emergency option if a team needs to play somewhere temporarily in a pinch.

I agree with most of this.

A few of points that I think really need to be hammered home:

1) The most important thing is having a committed ownership group ready to spend on a $2 billion entry fee, a new arena (in many of these locations) and long-term financial commitment. If you don’t have this - nothing else matters. Plain and simple. Like in my city, KC - this just doesn’t exist. It’s easy to play the game that “oh well there are billionaire corporate guys in town, somebody could step up”…but that’s just dreaming. Utah doesn’t have a team because it was the #1 demographic target, it has one because of a billionaire owner willing to do all the stuff it takes to own a team who the other billionaire owners seem to like.

2) Market size is not determined by the population of a “city proper”. I think most of gotten this by now, but it’s worth reiterating.

3) Market saturation by other professional teams is a real thing as well…people only have so much money and time to spend on their sports choices. Yes, in theory, Kansas City, Milwaukee and Cincinnati are big enough to have an NHL team compared to existing markets. But all these markets already have the NFL (ie 5,000 pound gorilla for attention and sports spending) and MLB (and in KC and Cincy, MLS as well). Sacramento only has the NBA (MLB is temporary)…the season schedule overlap with the NHL isn’t ideal but like SLC with a similar CSA population, you could probably make it work.

Like many - I think with the right ownership group - the three shoe-ins are Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix/AZ.

Unlike many, I do think going to 36 is the one chance there is to get another Canadian team. If QC has the right ownership in place and Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix are teams 33, 34 and 35….I think there’s a chance the NHL looks at all that southern expansion and says “a strong Canadian group should be 36 to balance things out”.

I am not “for” expansion but I think it is inevitable and I don’t think it is the doomsday scenario for the product that most here seem to think it is.
 
Toronto
Houston
Milwaukee
Cincinnati

Would love a team in Dan Diego but they might not show enough support, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Green Bay, Quebec City and Oklahoma City should be considered and are much better options than Atlanta
 
Brutal. 34 is too many, let alone 36.

Like some have said, lots of fanbases will never see their team win with that many teams involved. 30 was the perfect number imo.
Yeah its an awful idea. I get additional revenue but from a talent perspective, it completely waters everything down. Because winning the cup would be even more of an oddity than it is now, we're going to relentlessly celebrate division wins like the NFL.
 
Yeah its an awful idea. I get additional revenue but from a talent perspective, it completely waters everything down. Because winning the cup would be even more of an oddity than it is now, we're going to relentlessly celebrate division wins like the NFL.

I mean from a fan perspective, what is inherently wrong with celebrating winning your division or having that be important to a fanbase?

I don’t think fandom should be mandated to be “you either win the Championship or your entire year of following the club is trivial”.

If the Chargers knock off the Chiefs from AFC West dominance, that should be something their fans can hang their hats on. When the Bills ended the Pats dynasty in the AFC East, it was an important step. Why shouldn’t it be something to celebrate?
 
Toronto
Houston
Milwaukee
Cincinnati

Would love a team in Dan Diego but they might not show enough support, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Green Bay, Quebec City and Oklahoma City should be considered and are much better options than Atlanta

Merely pointing out that the NHL doesn't "put" teams anywhere, but simply entertains applications made by folks who think they can make a team work in a particular place, have a stadium deal, and are willing to cut the check for the expansion fee which might today be as high as $1.5 billion.

So far, only Houston (Friedkin, not Fertitta) and the Atlanta group seem to be willing to cut that check.

By further example, the very reason that Phoenix lost the Coyotes is that nobody in Phoenix was willing to cut the check to buy out Meruelo.

So, while it may be fun to speculate about these other places, none of them are realistic until somebody there is willing to cut that check.
 
In Milwaukee, you forgot about the Packers. We are still a home city for them after 30 years of no games here.

I always forget to associate the Packers with Milwaukee. That does make it a bit tougher for them. I know it’s a hockey friendly area but it seems like a stretch for that market to support all 4 major league sports, especially with it not being an area which projects for a population boom any time soon.

Honest question......why not Hartford. The metro area has a population of over 1 million people.

Fatal combination of small size, dwindling corporate sector, and being squeezed between rival markets. It would be like putting a team in Wilmington DE.

2) Market size is not determined by the population of a “city proper”. I think most of gotten this by now, but it’s worth reiterating.

Yep, all of my comments about population are based on CSAs.


I am not “for” expansion but I think it is inevitable and I don’t think it is the doomsday scenario for the product that most here seem to think it is.

IMO it all comes down to how the NHL manages 36 teams.

At that size, there really has to be some other thing to play for besides the Cup and the 1st overall pick. Some version of the NBA’s in-season tournament, or something. And that really has to include an expanded playoff bracket. You don’t want 28 fanbases feeling their season was an abject failure by the end of April.
 
I mean from a fan perspective, what is inherently wrong with celebrating winning your division or having that be important to a fanbase?

I don’t think fandom should be mandated to be “you either win the Championship or your entire year of following the club is trivial”.

If the Chargers knock off the Chiefs from AFC West dominance, that should be something their fans can hang their hats on. When the Bills ended the Pats dynasty in the AFC East, it was an important step. Why shouldn’t it be something to celebrate?
Not all fans think that mediocrity is something special that needs to be celebrated.
 
Not all fans think that mediocrity is something special that needs to be celebrated.
So, in this "division titles shouldn't be something to celebrate like in the NFL" premise, you're saying Buffalo Bills fans have been wasting their time celebrating mediocrity the past 7 years?

To each their own...I think it's a pretty sad fate being a sports fan if your life is so binary that the only thing you will cheer is a Championship and everything else is a failure...
 
So why even watch unless your team is on the verge of a championship?
Because you enjoy the game in general and the players on your team.

I don't at all enjoy the past few years of Blackhawks hockey but from 2018-2021 i still tuned in a ton because I loved watching Toews, Kane, Keith, etc.. play hockey. I love hockey in general. It's Cup or bust in terms of marking team success but it's not Cup or bust for my fandom as a whole.

Winning a Division title or even a President's Trophy is an asterisk on the season to me personally. I know you and others disagree but to each their own. I never even think about the PT the Hawks won in 2013. I remember the Cup win (obviously) and them being in historical company with 24 games in a row of getting at least one point. Division titles and President's trophies are such happenstance to me. I would hate to see that artificially valued more in an over-expanded NHL.
 
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