NHL wants to expand to 36 teams

[bossram]

Where do you draw the line? What if we end up with 50 teams in the league? The more teams there are the more fan bases there will be who will end up going a very long time in between their team being a legit contender. On top of that it waters down the talent and waters down the rivalries. We need less teams not more

I read this argument somewhere, which I thought somewhat convincing:

The other "Big Four" sports leagues are in 29-32 major American markets. The NHL thinks they can and should have 28-30 viable American markets too.

Hockey just has a unique cultural place in Canada, which is why it's the only Big Four league with non-Toronto Canadian teams.

 

[HisIceness]

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - this is the funniest thing I've heard in forever. There isn't enough talent to supply 31 teams let alone 36. What a horrible idea. Time for some serious change at the top of the NHL.

There's zero chance this happens. None. Nada. Zilch. If anyone thinks public funds will be used here in the US for any new arenas...I have some ocean property in AZ to sell you. How bout a new bridge perhaps?

Hello yes I'm inquiring about the Arizona ocean front property?

 

[ManofSteel55]

Where do you draw the line? What if we end up with 50 teams in the league? The more teams there are the more fan bases there will be who will end up going a very long time in between their team being a legit contender. On top of that it waters down the talent and waters down the rivalries. We need less teams not more

Eventually, if the league gets too big, I can see a scenario where they split the conferences and have them play the other teams less frequently, or maybe not at all until the playoffs. Similar to MLB where the American and National league used to exclusively play within their own leagues. I don't see the league caring much over whether teams are ever contenders or not. There are teams in MLB, and the NFL that are never contenders. There are teams in the NBA that are rarely good, if ever. The NHL doesn't care if all fans get to see their team win, as long as they have viewers showing up to watch regularly. The goal is viewership, and fan satisfaction only has to be good enough to keep them watching and buying tickets.

 

[ManofSteel55]

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - this is the funniest thing I've heard in forever. There isn't enough talent to supply 31 teams let alone 36. What a horrible idea. Time for some serious change at the top of the NHL.

There's zero chance this happens. None. Nada. Zilch. If anyone thinks public funds will be used here in the US for any new arenas...I have some ocean property in AZ to sell you. How bout a new bridge perhaps?

There aren't enough star players to go around, but the line between lower tier NHL player and upper tier career AHL'er/European league player isn't that big. There are guys who have been career AHL'ers who could have just as easily been career NHL 4th liners, but for one minor reason or another, didn't.

Also, where have you been hiding? Public funds are used to build and renovate sports arenas all the time in Canada and the US. It comes from all levels of government, and will continue to do so.

 

[Puckclektr]

I have no doubt in my mind that a second team in the greater Toronto area would be financially successful once established. What I’m not so certain about is if they get established considering that they’d have to pay an indemnity to the Leafs (and I think the Sabres too but don’t quote me on that) on top of the skyrocketing expansion fee.

Kitchener Waterloo isn't in the Leafs territory so they would have no say, legally according to the NHL contracts and rules. Now does the K-W have the population? NO tthe metro itself which has about 250k less than Winnipeg or QC, but it is essentially the same when you add Guelph and Brantford into the mix. The difference is when you leave Winnipeg there is no population for hours. QC has some small cities and towns, but K-W ahs about 6 million within an hour drive with a lot of that within the 407 corridor.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

f*** the NHL, of course going to have the same bullshit as Seattle and Vegas where they want them to be competitive right away so every other team is going to have to pay for it

I think Expansion Drafts are an opportunity for a shrewd team to improve relative to the rest of the league

 

[Djp]

Which cities do you think deserve a team?

Assuming this is happens in 2 teams per tkme.

First one 28/29
Second 32/33

start iij mg 2 yrs prior (26 and 27 got 28) the te as ms draft between playoff and nonplayoff... no lottery wins

For expansion trans they get 16 nhl roster players using same protections, and 16 non nhl pkayers. Each team loses an nhl team player and a 90 man player

The non nhl roster will have protection rules too

An nhl team draft 9-5-1 for nhl team
6-3'-1 ELC/AHL roster and 3 prospects not signed yet and 3 players who are either AHL vets or they dont have waiver exemptions
I think 28-- Atlanta, Houston
33- Toronto 2/ Quebec., and a team on central time or farther west

 

[x Tame Impala]

Imagine how much harder it will be to rebuild your team when there's all these extra teams taking up draft slots. I'm glad the Hawks will likely be done with that in the next few seasons because I can't imagine it getting any easier to pull a team out of the gutter via the draft.

32 teams is already too much, 36 might honestly kill my interest in the game and I've been posting on a hockey forum since 2012 everyday like a dork. Too much talent dilution. What would we even be watching in a 36 team league? 8 very good teams and 10 decent teams, 10 bubble teams, and 8 teams as bad as the Sharks/Hawks now? No thanks.

There'd also be a bunch of meaningless play-in rounds between the #8-12 seeds every year to accommodate the extra teams. No thanks.

Expansion works against the integrity of the on ice product. There isn't enough talent to go around and draft picks aren't enough of a sure thing to count on them re-supplying the league with talent. We're going to have wayyyy more versions of the Edmonton Oilers, but worse, where tanking teams "exit their rebuild" with one or two very good players and then fill out the rest of their roster with a bunch of AHL tweener crap in their lineups.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Assuming this is happens in 2 teams per tkme.

First one 28/29
Second 32/33

start iij mg 2 yrs prior (26 and 27 got 28) the te as ms draft between playoff and nonplayoff... no lottery wins

For expansion trans they get 16 nhl roster players using same protections, and 16 non nhl pkayers. Each team loses an nhl team player and a 90 man player

The non nhl roster will have protection rules too

An nhl team draft 9-5-1 for nhl team
6-3'-1 ELC/AHL roster and 3 prospects not signed yet and 3 players who are either AHL vets or they dont have waiver exemptions
I think 28-- Atlanta, Houston
33- Toronto 2/ Quebec., and a team on central time or farther west

The last 2 expansions rules for protection were either,
7-3-1 or
4-4-1
All players had NHL experience.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

There isn't enough talent to supply 31 teams let alone 36. What a horrible idea. Time for some serious change at the top of the NHL.

There is no evidence that the owners care about talent dilution, or that they think Bettman is on the wrong path.

The harder truth is that unless and until the fans start voting with their feet, the owners couldn't care less what the fans think about anything.

 

[Neil Racki]

NHL owners overly rely on ticket sales for revenue.

Of course they want an 86 game, 36 team league ...

As long as owners see fans fill their arenas (and we do) .. why shouldnt they continue to milk us like a german table porn video

--------------

[BrooksGate] How the big 4 US sports leagues make their money. NHL relies on ticket sales for 44% of their revenue while the other leagues are 17% (nfl), 31% (mlb), and 26% (nba).Jul 17, 2024

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

36 teams.. many, many fans will never see their team win a title in their lifetime.

No stopping it though. 50 teams by 2060

Many fans, but also many great players. Guys like McDavid and Bedard might never win the Cup.

The league expansion is why I object to comparing players’ legacies by counting the number of rings they have.

Henri Richard won 11 Cups, but that was at a time when the Canadiens could enter the season with a very high chance of winning it all among the 6 teams of that time.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Imagine how much harder it will be to rebuild your team when there's all these extra teams taking up draft slots. I'm glad the Hawks will likely be done with that in the next few seasons because I can't imagine it getting any easier to pull a team out of the gutter via the draft.

32 teams is already too much, 36 might honestly kill my interest in the game and I've been posting on a hockey forum since 2012 everyday like a dork. Too much talent dilution. What would we even be watching in a 36 team league? 8 very good teams and 10 decent teams, 10 bubble teams, and 8 teams as bad as the Sharks/Hawks now? No thanks.

There'd also be a bunch of meaningless play-in rounds between the #8-12 seeds every year to accommodate the extra teams. No thanks.

Expansion works against the integrity of the on ice product. There isn't enough talent to go around and draft picks aren't enough of a sure thing to count on them re-supplying the league with talent. We're going to have wayyyy more versions of the Edmonton Oilers, but worse, where tanking teams "exit their rebuild" with one or two very good players and then fill out the rest of their roster with a bunch of AHL tweener crap in their lineups.

I say it all the time
We do not have enough NHL quality defensemen. We do not have enough defensemen capable of playing top 4.

We added 2 teams so 12 more defensemen at the healthiest playing games like a #7 or 8.

Now we will get 4 more teams playing like that.

36 defensemen that play below a bottom pairing standard.

I am not anti expansion and owners do not care. Players do not care they get paid more playing in the NHL.

I do agree with you though.

 

[Greatzsky 99]

So much negative take, see the upside also, if yhe league was smaller, more stars on the same team, with risk
of some dissapear behind bigger and better, think avalanche mid 90s, with more teams stars can blossom.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

so people feel like the talent pool was actually diluted? i thought we kind of found out a lot of guys in the league had a lot of hidden potential and just needed more playing time, and a lot of ahl guys weren't any different than the 4th liners who were considered "established nhlers"

If you’re thinking of guys like William Karlsson who went from being a bottom 6 player to a 40 goal scorer, then I suppose some players gain the chance to reveal their true potential.

On the other hand, the players that fill the voids created by the William Karlssons of this league have to come from the AHL.

If you went the other way and shrunk the league to fewer teams, then the skill level of bottom 6 players would rise. Best example of that is the 4 Nations tournament, you have Travis Konecny as a 4th liner because he is worse than all the guys on lines 1-3.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

I'm not sure how Saskatoon could possibly have a team

 

[ManofSteel55]

There is no evidence that the owners care about talent dilution, or that they think Bettman is on the wrong path.

The harder truth is that unless and until the fans start voting with their feet, the owners couldn't care less what the fans think about anything.

If the owners thought Bettman was on the wrong path, they would have replaced him. Bettman does exactly what the owners (NHL BOG) tell him to. That is money. Increased revenue. These billionaires didn't become billionaires by not looking for more money.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'm not sure how Saskatoon could possibly have a team

They can't. It would be a nice dream, but they don't have the population.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

f***ing billionaires.

 

[Desert Panther]

Overall I think it will be more like 2035 but I'd expect Houston, Phoenix and Atlanta to be locks.

This exactly. I'm betting QC will be #36 though.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

0 reason why Toronto should not have a 2nd team.

Although a 2nd Toronto team would be very viable, this won't grow the game in the US which is what Bettman wants. Bettman couldn't care less about Canada.

 

[x Tame Impala]

We do not have enough NHL quality defensemen. We do not have enough defensemen capable of playing top 4.

Or 1C's, or top 6 forwards, or starting goaltenders, etc...

Thinking expansion doesn't dilute the league is insanity to me. People think just because there are bodies on teams that the talent is the same. In the 30 team NHL rosters still struggled filling out and relegated those 4th liner spots for fighting goons.

A 36 team NHL adds 88 more roster spots to the league. We're not adding 88 great NHLers there, we're adding a bunch of Dominik Kubalik, Taylor Raddysh, and Jordan Oesterle types and it's going to be boring as hell. Guys like Tyler Bertuzzi will be team's 3rd or 4th best forward in a 36 team league.

This is good for no one except owner's accepting expansion fees from billionaires. Is Seattle at all close to competing for a Cup anytime in the near future? Are they even close to being a playoff team? They've got a huge uphill battle towards building a contender. I can't imagine that remedying itself anytime in the future while they aren't able to sign UFA's and their top picks aren't becoming difference makers. All of their issues get extrapolated by adding 4 more teams. These 4 new teams will have few means of improving their rosters and we'll have a league where 80% of the teams are either mediocre or terrible.

We'll see 200 point seasons from the best players in the world while they feast on this garbage and some people's jaws will be on the floor as "history is made".

 

[Desert Panther]

Although a 2nd Toronto team would be very viable, this won't grow the game in the US which is what Bettman wants. Bettman couldn't care less about Canada.

Bettman won't be in charge in 2030. Timeline for his retirement is likely ~26-27 after the new CBA is done.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

I hope they do six divisions of six. Nine teams per division is too many. You'll only play some division rivals three times a year.

 

[BertCorbeau]

36?? Jesus that’s too many