NHL teams and their fanbase reach

[NYRandazzo]

The NY Metro area was all Rangers fans until the Islanders were created. Long Island grew more and more Islanders fans natrually as fans who never watched hockey before now had a team in their backyard to go watch and the fans who were children when the Islanders were created got older. In the 80's when they went on their dynasty of 4 consecutive Cups you had an even greater increase of fanbase. A lot of Rangers fans jumping ship because there last Cup was 1940 and this relitively new team just won 4 straight. Long Island is still very mixed between Rangers and Islanders. Queens and Brooklyn are mixed and even Staten Island a bit as a result of people moving to the borough from BK and Queens.

Staten Island is almost like the melting pot for hockey. Majority definitely are Rangers fans with Devils fans having the second most followed by the Islanders. Probably around 60-25-15. It's my estimate NOT FACT.

In north Central and Northern NJ still have a lot of Rangers fans. Most of them being the older generations of fans from the tail end of the Original 6 era or fans who moved from NY. A lot of young Rangers fans born in NJ who stayed loyal because of a parent or grandparent being a Rangers fan. Even though NJ is predominetly Devil fans don't be suprised to find a lot of Rangers fans.

Central Jersey is a very mixed area. It mixes the border between Philly and NYC Metropolitan area sports (including NJ's 2 teams). I would say that hockey wise that Devil fans make up the majority of the fans followed by the Rangers and than Flyers. You have to remember a lot of people from NYC move to Central NJ so it's going to bring NYC sports fans. In regards to other sports I would say the Philly/NY percentages have to be 60/40 overall but the further south you go the more Philly fans there are.

In the NYC metro area there really are no lines because of a lot of people moving from the city to the suburbs or vice versa. It' not like Chicago where the north I belive are Sox fans and the south Cubs. Not 100% sure but you get the analogy.

Connecticut fans are majority Boston fans with the exception of the southwest and very south. The Rangers' AHL affiliate the Connecticut Whale (formerly the Hartford Wolfpack until this yr) have been playing in the Whalers old arena since 1999. I don't know if that has any impact on whether a fan roots for the Bruins or Rangers. It shouldn't but I don't know.

 

[Percy LeSueur*]

Id put it more at 60 sens, 25 habs, 15 leafs.

I'd say this is true inside the "old city limits" of Ottawa itself.

Now, i'd say we're at 35/35/30 habs/leafs/sens.

I'd say this is true for Ottawa and the surrounding areas.

 

[obsenssive*]

If the Sabres were able to get their games on TV in southern Ontario, they would have a stronger reach.

As it is, they do well in the Niagara Peninsula (Niagara Falls, Fort Erie, St. Catharines, etc.). These are the areas at risk of being lost if a team goes to Hamilton.

There will be no team in Buffalo in about 10 years. it will be in SO by that time.

upstate new york is appallingly undeveloped and decrepit. I honestly thought I was in some eastern Russian oblast when I traveled their a couple years ago. and it's only getting worse.

whereas Southern Ontario is strengthening and undergoing hyper-modernization. we already have the second most educated workforce in the world, and soon our banking and financial services industries will be among the most important in the world. the financial draw will be too much for the NHL to ignore.

 

[MayDay]

There will be no team in Buffalo in about 10 years. it will be in SO by that time.

Haha, yeah OK, sure.

The Buffalo Sabres will still be there celebrating their next 40 years. And Hamilton will never have a team. Deal with it.

 

[ticats4]

Haha, yeah OK, sure.

The Buffalo Sabres will still be there celebrating their next 40 years. And Hamilton will never have a team. Deal with it.

That kind of attitude shows why the Sabres will nevergain any more fans outside of the Niagara Peninsula, and certainly not in the Hamilton area...

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Aren't the Leafs considered as big an obstacle for a Hamilton team as Buffalo? Yet I doubt there's a shortage of Leafs fans in the area.

 

[ticats4]

Aren't the Leafs considered as big an obstacle for a Hamilton team as Buffalo? Yet I doubt there's a shortage of Leafs fans in the area.

True...although the Leafs have been around a lot longer than the Sabres, and I would only guess that the Leafs are not as against a team in Hamilton as the Sabres are (especially with all the talk of possibly putting a second team inToronto)

 

[MayDay]

That kind of attitude shows why the Sabres will nevergain any more fans outside of the Niagara Peninsula, and certainly not in the Hamilton area...

We won't gain more fans because I don't accept the prediction that the Sabres are going to leave town in 10 years for southern Ontario?

OK.

 

[ticats4]

We won't gain more fans because I don't accept the prediction that the Sabres are going to leave town in 10 years for southern Ontario?

OK.

Fair enough....I don't think the Sabres are going anywhere either.......

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

It's interesting you say that, I always expected the Sabres to do much better than that in Hamilton given Buffalo is only about 60 miles away and the American stations you get are the Buffalo ones.

Thing is we don't get U.S. cable networks in Canada and therefore we see no Sabre games on TV on this side of the border.

We only get the over the air channels, like ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and PBS.

 

[kdb209]

The NY Metro area was all Rangers fans until the Islanders were created. Long Island grew more and more Islanders fans natrually as fans who never watched hockey before now had a team in their backyard to go watch and the fans who were children when the Islanders were created got older. In the 80's when they went on their dynasty of 4 consecutive Cups you had an even greater increase of fanbase.

Not really.

The bulk of the Isles original fanbase were ex-Ranger (and LI Ducks) fans who switched allegiances.

You have to realize how much it meant for LI fans to be able to step out of the shadow of NYC and have a team which was a Long Island team.

Most (including me and my family) had gone to many games at the Garden and the old Commack arena.

The Islander fanbase then pretty much fell on the Mets/Jets/(and back then ABA Nets) side of the great NY fan divide - Mets/Jets/Isles/Nets vs Yankees/Giants/Rangers/Knicks. Nassau & Suffolk become predominantly Isles fans. Queens was largely split. The rest of the area pretty much stayed with the Rangers (until the Devils siphoned off the Jersey market).

I guess it's time to switch back to my old avatar.

 

[Teemu]

5) Do the Hawks draw in the Milwaukee market?

Bluntly, no. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if McDonough and crew won't try to break into this market in the upcoming years.

 

[NYRandazzo]

Not really.

The bulk of the Isles original fanbase were ex-Ranger (and LI Ducks) fans who switched allegiances.

"A lot of Rangers fans jumping ship because there last Cup was 1940 and this relitively new team just won 4 straight"

I mentioned the fans who jumped ship. I understand not all waited until the dynasty years but you had some jump ship from the Rangers and fans began taking interest in a team that was winning cups like crazy.

I agree with your other points as well.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

I think there's a much better chance of the Sabres allowing a team in Hamilton now that Pegula is at the helm.

 

[NYRandazzo]

How does the NYC metro area have 3 teams, Los Angeles have 2, and Florida have 2 teams not that far from eachother and Ontario only has 2 teams, Quebec with 1, Michighan 1, Minnesota 1? These are hockey hot beds that produce NHLers like a factory. I understand NYC, LA, and Florida are highly populated that makes sense. But Florida has 2 hockey teams really? The amount of fans compared to smaller Canadian cities has to be less than the amount of fans in Michighan, Minnesota, Southern Ontario, Quebec City, Winnepeg etc. It's a shame that a hockey team is being wasted in a city that doesn't really care for it.

If a team was relocated to Southern Ontario, lets say Hamilton for example, would Leafs fans be willing to cut there ties and support a new team? It was successful in NY with the Islanders can it be successful in Ontario or even Quebec City again?

 

[dj4aces]

No mention of Canada at all. Just the USA. Invalid map overall if you ask me.

Sounds like this CommonCensus map is a good start, but not indicative of the entire NHL. Which brings us back to a collaborative effort to create our own map.

 

[Prussian_Blue]

Here is a map that I found on http://icethetics.info


http://bp3.blogger.com/_r8tWGVHrjGI/SE20HQMn7FI/AAAAAAAAEi4/65Rbr_TaZ_Y/s1600-h/fanbasemap.png

That fanbase map is inaccurate as far as the Blues are concerned... the St. Louis metro area extends into several Illinois counties, and in those counties, there are far more Blues fans than Hawk fans.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

I think there's a much better chance of the Sabres allowing a team in Hamilton now that Pegula is at the helm.

I certainly hope so, just as I hope that there's a big enough market for Toronto, Buffalo and Hamilton, especially considering the growth of Southern Ontario which is already probably one of the best hockey markets anywhere.

 

[mucker*]

The NY Metro area was all Rangers fans until the Islanders were created. Long Island grew more and more Islanders fans natrually as fans who never watched hockey before now had a team in their backyard to go watch and the fans who were children when the Islanders were created got older. In the 80's when they went on their dynasty of 4 consecutive Cups you had an even greater increase of fanbase. A lot of Rangers fans jumping ship because there last Cup was 1940 and this relitively new team just won 4 straight. Long Island is still very mixed between Rangers and Islanders. Queens and Brooklyn are mixed and even Staten Island a bit as a result of people moving to the borough from BK and Queens.

Staten Island is almost like the melting pot for hockey. Majority definitely are Rangers fans with Devils fans having the second most followed by the Islanders. Probably around 60-25-15. It's my estimate NOT FACT.

In north Central and Northern NJ still have a lot of Rangers fans. Most of them being the older generations of fans from the tail end of the Original 6 era or fans who moved from NY. A lot of young Rangers fans born in NJ who stayed loyal because of a parent or grandparent being a Rangers fan. Even though NJ is predominetly Devil fans don't be suprised to find a lot of Rangers fans.

Central Jersey is a very mixed area. It mixes the border between Philly and NYC Metropolitan area sports (including NJ's 2 teams). I would say that hockey wise that Devil fans make up the majority of the fans followed by the Rangers and than Flyers. You have to remember a lot of people from NYC move to Central NJ so it's going to bring NYC sports fans. In regards to other sports I would say the Philly/NY percentages have to be 60/40 overall but the further south you go the more Philly fans there are.

In the NYC metro area there really are no lines because of a lot of people moving from the city to the suburbs or vice versa. It' not like Chicago where the north I belive are Sox fans and the south Cubs. Not 100% sure but you get the analogy.

Connecticut fans are majority Boston fans with the exception of the southwest and very south. The Rangers' AHL affiliate the Connecticut Whale (formerly the Hartford Wolfpack until this yr) have been playing in the Whalers old arena since 1999. I don't know if that has any impact on whether a fan roots for the Bruins or Rangers. It shouldn't but I don't know.

As a former Connecticut resident, I can assure you that your bolded statement is clearly wrong and naive.

Connecticut is not 'Boston' fans. Most of Connecticut, I would say between 55-65% are NY sports vs. BOS sports fans overall (in all sports) not just pucks.
10 years ago before the 'Red Sox Nation' hoopla, it was rare to find somebody south of Hartford wearing or sporting a Red Sox hat.
They would be looked at as outsiders in hostile grounds.
Once the Red Sox won a world series then everybody started acting like they were the local team since they were in New England...but this is just a wave of bandwagoners.

Connecticut still is overall a clear majority 55-65% New York fans.
Polls have been done by Quinnipiac University, and int he 8 years or so Boston has only led once and it was by 1%.
When it started back in 2003, NY had a 47-33% lead, which is how I remember it get growing up.

The split goes as follows:
-Southern and Western CT (Greater New Haven and points south or west) are New York.
-Hartford leans towards Boston, but is very much split.
-Southeastern CT leans Boston, however there are many NY fans.
-The only area where it truly is mostly Boston fans would be the interior NE of CT past UCONN, but very few people live there and you still find NY fans.

As for hockey, I can safely tell you the Bruins have ZERO presence in Connecticut, and by far the smallest following out of any Boston team in the area.
Hockey in general is not very popular (at least the NHL) in Connecitcut once you get out of the Greater NY area (say past New Haven).
Those who do like hockey are Ranger fans.
In fact, out of all the NY teams, they have the biggest advantage popularity wise over Boston.
This is due in part to Hartford having the Whalers.
Fans beyond the NY area in CT rooted for them and despised the Bruins, once the Whalers left Hartford totally stopped caring about hockey.
I can say not one person in CT shifted from Whalers to Bruins, they either went to the Rangers or more likely, said to heck with the NHL as the state is predominatly more concerned with baseball, football, and Husky basketball.

 

[Moo]

Other than the absence of Canada, how is this invalid?

The fan base reaches aren't valid and they're subject to people participating who are on bandwagons.

The best thing to do is obtain a map that shows where teams claim their territories to be. You may have to slightly taper back their claims (sometimes they claim they are in an area in which they really aren't), but it gives you an idea of where the fan base reaches.

 

[Bittco]

I used to have family in southern Jersey and I remember being surprised as a kid that they were Flyer fans cos I just assumed everyone in Jersey rooted for the Devils. From what they told me though, everyone was a Flyers fan down there.

As for the other local areas, I'd say it's roughly 50/50 for Isles and Rangers on Long Island. For the city, it's something like 75/15/10 for Rangers, Isles and Devils with most of those Isles fans being in Queens (since it borders the Island). In Westchester and some counties north, the figures are roughly the same with perhaps the Devils and Isles switched. Just based on my experience although of course these figures seem to fluctuate depending on how well the teams are doing.

South Jersey IS flyers land without a doubt. Most people lump all of Jersey together but the southern third/half (depending on how you divide it) is a philadelphia suburb. It doesn't get NY stations or radio and a sizable number of people originally came from the city back when.

 

[selkie]

How does the NYC metro area have 3 teams, Los Angeles have 2, and Florida have 2 teams not that far from eachother and Ontario only has 2 teams, Quebec with 1, Michighan 1, Minnesota 1?

Minnesota has one total metro area large enough to support an NHL level hockey team, and it's got one. In Michigan, you can make an argument for the NHL in Grand Rapids but their arena was never designed to expand to NHL standards, and that's a region that's not going to tear down a perfectly nice existing structure that's paid for in favor of something that would cost far too much for local sensibilities. (This is an area that also contains the best top to bottom D2 college sports program in the country but refuses to go D1 because they feel like a $40 million football stadium that would be required wouldn't be a good return on investment and would rather spend that money on a new college library) Outside of the GTA, Ontario's metros are either too small for an NHL team or largely absorbed into Detroit, Buffalo, or Toronto.

Quebec's been shown to be kind of borderline in the past, but honestly probably has better demographics than Winnipeg and Hamilton and a new arena should get them another chance for a new or relocated team.

As for Florida, it's a state with 18.5 million people. So roughly twice as many people and twice as many teams as Michigan, and actually more residents per team than Quebec (1 team-7.8 million) and Minnesota (1 team- 5.2 million) New York State has 3 teams/19.5 million people, butting it at 6.5 million people for team. California has a 1 team per 12.3 million people ratio.

 

[NYRandazzo]

As for Florida, it's a state with 18.5 million people. California has a 1 team per 12.3 million people ratio.

But how many actually like hockey in Florida other than transplanted retierees from the north lol. Out of the 18.9 million how many don't live in the Miami or Tampa Bay area and how many are actually into hockey.

I think Florida would be better off putting a team in Orlando and moving the Lightning there and move the Panthers to Canada. The Lightning are 20th in the league in percentage of attendance and the Panthers are 26th. Eliminate one team and move the other to an area that is not too far from Tampa or Miami which is Orlando. Than they can bring back the Mighty Ducks and play in the Magic Kingdom lol

California has the LA Kings and Anaheim Ducks in the LA metro area. There actually seperated by Interstate 5 I believe. The San Jose Sharks are in the San Francisco Bay metro area. 3 teams in Cali

Great facts though good post

 

[HabsByTheBay]

Connecticut is not 'Boston' fans. Most of Connecticut, I would say between 55-65% are NY sports vs. BOS sports fans overall (in all sports) not just pucks.
10 years ago before the 'Red Sox Nation' hoopla, it was rare to find somebody south of Hartford wearing or sporting a Red Sox hat.
They would be looked at as outsiders in hostile grounds.
Once the Red Sox won a world series then everybody started acting like they were the local team since they were in New England...but this is just a wave of bandwagoners.

There's bandwagoners all over Connecticut, otherwise all these people who root for NY teams would occasionally be Mets fans. I've only met a couple people in the whole state who are Met fans and some of them are related to me. If 65% of the state are so-called NY sports fans and 95% of them root for the Mets, then by definition there's bandwagoners there.

Anyway, there have always been Red Sox fans in Fairfield County and west of I-91. My grandparents are flinty Yankees who don't like New York, and so they root for the Red Sox. My parents (who are Red Sox fans) grew up down there and some of their friends are Red Sox fans too. More Yankee fans of course, but it's not like it's unknown.

It's Connecticut, for God's sake. You're wedged between New York and Boston and so setups like the sports bar in Hartford where there were three TVs - one for the Yanks, one for the Sox and one for the Mets - aren't uncommon.

By the way, the Whalers totally left Fairfield County to the Rangers and that was a big part of their downfall. As UCONN shows, the state is considerably more capable of rallying around some symbol of state pride than the Whalers thought. "Come see CONNECTICUT'S pro team" would have worked pretty well.

 

[nyrmetros]

It's mind boggline that the NYC metro area has 3 NHL teams, and the GTA and Metro Montreal only have 1.