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League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) | 2024-25 Playoffs

Mr Nogatco said:
Yeah I’ve always considered TB a super talented team that wilted under the pressure of the playoffs, until they were able to

1. play in an empty room with no travel
2. Add $20M worth of extra players, against the 2021 Make-A-Wish Habs

I can only imagine the ridicule the Caps would have gotten if they were only able to get over the hump by winning in those circumstances
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Every other team played under the same circumstances. The 2021 Kucherov cap circumvention aside, they deserved both cups.

Tampa made the finals in 2015, conference finals in 2016 & 2018, and they made the finals again in 2022. This weird 'fake Covid cup' thing needs to go away, and the idea that Tampa wilts in the playoffs does not align with reality.

And now that I've said all that - I hope they lose in the first round again.
 
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Kazer said:
Every other team played under the same circumstances. The 2021 Kucherov cap circumvention aside, they deserved both cups.

Tampa made the finals in 2015, conference finals in 2016 & 2018, and they made the finals again in 2022. This weird 'fake Covid cup' thing needs to go away, and the idea that Tampa wilts in the playoffs does not align with reality.

And now that I've said all that - I hope they lose in the first round again.
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I don’t disagree but I think you’re missing a lot of context. The Bolts were choke artists leading up to that Covid Cup. They blew the 3-2 series to us in the conference final in 2017-18. In 2016 they blew a 3-2 series lead to Pittsburgh. In 2015 they blew a 2-1 series lead and lost three straight to Chicago in the SCF. In 2018-19 they were embarrassingly swept by Columbus after winning the Presidents Trophy.

It really has nothing to do with every team playing under the same circumstances. Tampa had earned the choker label with their core and their fans were restless. To be able to play in an empty arena without the pressure of fan angst looming over them was exactly what they needed, more so than any other team.

Sure, they still won and maybe they would have if Covid never happened, but no team in sports benefited from Covid like the Lightning did.
 
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AlexModvechkin8 said:
I don’t disagree but I think you’re missing a lot of context. The Bolts were choke artists leading up to that Covid Cup. They blew the 3-2 series to us in the conference final in 2017-18. In 2016 they blew a 3-2 series lead to Pittsburgh. In 2015 they blew a 2-1 series lead and lost three straight to Chicago in the SCF. In 2018-19 they were embarrassingly swept by Columbus after winning the Presidents Trophy.

It really has nothing to do with every team playing under the same circumstances. Tampa had earned the choker label with their core and their fans were restless. To be able to play in an empty arena without the pressure of fan angst looming over them was exactly what they needed, more so than any other team.

Sure, they still won and maybe they would have if Covid never happened, but no team in sports benefited from Covid like the Lightning did.
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Losing to the 2016 Pens, 2018 Caps, 2015 Hawks shouldn't be considered choking. Those are championship teams. In 2018 they were lucky to be up 3-2 at all.
 
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um said:
Losing to the 2016 Pens, 2018 Caps, 2015 Hawks shouldn't be considered choking. Those are championship teams. In 2018 they were lucky to be up 3-2 at all.
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Kazer said:
Every other team played under the same circumstances. The 2021 Kucherov cap circumvention aside, they deserved both cups.

Tampa made the finals in 2015, conference finals in 2016 & 2018, and they made the finals again in 2022. This weird 'fake Covid cup' thing needs to go away, and the idea that Tampa wilts in the playoffs does not align with reality.

And now that I've said all that - I hope they lose in the first round again.
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While you guys make compelling points using facts and logic, I enjoy finding ways to make teams I dislike into chokers who have fake Mickey Mouse cups!
 
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AlexModvechkin8 said:
So you don’t consider the Caps blowing it in 2016 or 2017 to be a choke job?
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Not really. In 2016, we were only up after game 1. In 2017, it was the Pens who went up 2-0 (I was furious after 2017 game 7, though). Would you say the Pens choked in 2018 when they lost? Either way, I recall it being a pretty popular opinion that those were the real finals those years.

Not every loss is a choke; sometimes two great teams play each other and one must lose. This year we've got Dallas vs. Colorado and Florida vs. Tampa in round 1 alone!

A real choke job is when you lose after having a large lead (up 3-1), or you lose to a fair inferior team (2010 Habs), or you just don't show up (2011 Tampa).
 
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um said:
Not really. In 2016, we were only up after game 1. In 2017, it was the Pens who went up 2-0 (I was furious after 2017 game 7, though). Would you say the Pens choked in 2018 when they lost? Either way, I recall it being a pretty popular opinion that those were the real finals those years.

Not every loss is a choke; sometimes two great teams play each other and one must lose. This year we've got Dallas vs. Colorado and Florida vs. Tampa in round 1 alone!

A real choke job is when you lose after having a large lead (up 3-1), or you lose to a fair inferior team (2010 Habs), or you just don't show up (2011 Tampa).
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Fair points, but I don’t think most fans see it that way. If you blow a series lead five seasons in a row or five of six or whatever it was, you don’t get a label of being a clutch performer. Assume we can agree There. And you’re discounting/not mentioning the fact that they had the most embarrassing playoff loss in league history the year before the Covid Cup.

My neighbor is friends with some senior people in both the NFL and NHL orgs, and internally inside the Bolts org they were worried that the years of losing in the playoffs were wearing on the core. He doesn’t think they win a Cup without Covid, but he’s also the most pessimistic sports fan I’ve ever met and makes Caps fans after 2017 look optimistic.
 
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AlexModvechkin8 said:
Fair points, but I don’t think most fans see it that way. If you blow a series lead five seasons in a row or five of six or whatever it was, you don’t get a label of being a clutch performer. Assume we can agree There. And you’re discounting/not mentioning the fact that they had the most embarrassing playoff loss in league history the year before the Covid Cup.

My neighbor is friends with some senior people in both the NFL and NHL orgs, and internally inside the Bolts org they were worried that the years of losing in the playoffs were wearing on the core. He doesn’t think they win a Cup without Covid, but he’s also the most pessimistic sports fan I’ve ever met and makes Caps fans after 2017 look optimistic.
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I agree that the reputation of not being winners is very real. I wouldn't call the Caps a great playoff team either.

But I don't simplify it to each series loss = choking. I don't think the Bolts choked in 2018 against the Caps, I think the Caps were a better team. That's how I felt when the Caps lost to the Pens in 2016. Tampa losing to the Jackets is definitely a choke; it's a series-by-series thing.

There are 32 teams and 1 cup. Losing is likely, it's how you do it.
 
AlexModvechkin8 said:
Fair points, but I don’t think most fans see it that way. If you blow a series lead five seasons in a row or five of six or whatever it was, you don’t get a label of being a clutch performer. Assume we can agree There. And you’re discounting/not mentioning the fact that they had the most embarrassing playoff loss in league history the year before the Covid Cup.

My neighbor is friends with some senior people in both the NFL and NHL orgs, and internally inside the Bolts org they were worried that the years of losing in the playoffs were wearing on the core. He doesn’t think they win a Cup without Covid, but he’s also the most pessimistic sports fan I’ve ever met and makes Caps fans after 2017 look optimistic.
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(responding to this and your prior post)

Reality is of course that we have no way of knowing. Tampa, going into 2020, was the best team of the decade who had not won a cup.

Conference Finals 2011, 2016, 2018 and Stanley Cup Final 2015

So, I look at a team that was clearly good (though not good enough to win) both before and after 2020 & 2021. So, it makes sense logically to me that they were good enough to win in 2020 and 2021 as well. One final thought - Look at UVA (UMBC 16 over 1 to Natty the next year). Sometimes your greatest upset leads to success. No 'Covid' factor there. If anything, they had even more pressure in 2019.
 
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Kazer said:
Every other team played under the same circumstances. The 2021 Kucherov cap circumvention aside, they deserved both cups.

Tampa made the finals in 2015, conference finals in 2016 & 2018, and they made the finals again in 2022. This weird 'fake Covid cup' thing needs to go away, and the idea that Tampa wilts in the playoffs does not align with reality.

And now that I've said all that - I hope they lose in the first round again.
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Those 2 COVID playoffs years were a mess. You think the Bolts under normal playoff circumstances would have still won the Cup? In my opinion they wouldn't have.
Kazer said:
Every other team played under the same circumstances. The 2021 Kucherov cap circumvention aside, they deserved both cups.

Tampa made the finals in 2015, conference finals in 2016 & 2018, and they made the finals again in 2022. This weird 'fake Covid cup' thing needs to go away, and the idea that Tampa wilts in the playoffs does not align with reality.

And now that I've said all that - I hope they lose in the first round again.
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I have a difference of opinion, and we will leave at that.
 
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I don't think the two covid cups are equal. One was after a long layoff and a very short restart pre-tournament set of games, and one was just played without a full arena.

That 2021 Cup seems pretty legit to me.
 
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1745437980672.png


Before 2000....woof.

Here's the real stinker:

1745438029468.png
 
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Langway said:

Hahaha.
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They should have an interesting summer. Replacing Lavi and running it back isn’t going to be enough. That said, going to be tough to make substantial roster changes when Panarin, Zib, Miller, Kreider, Trochek, Shesterkin, and Soucy have trade/movement protection. Plus Lafreniere’s new contract and his $7.45M AAV kicks in after this season.

Rangers fans are convinced that one or both of Zib and Kreider won’t wear a Rangers jersey again but who is going to want to take on those contracts without sweeteners? I hope no one bails them out and trades them actual assets.
 
AlexModvechkin8 said:
They should have an interesting summer. Replacing Lavi and running it back isn’t going to be enough. That said, going to be tough to make substantial roster changes when Panarin, Zib, Miller, Kreider, Trochek, Shesterkin, and Soucy have trade/movement protection. Plus Lafreniere’s new contract and his $7.45M AAV kicks in after this season.

Rangers fans are convinced that one or both of Zib and Kreider won’t wear a Rangers jersey again but who is going to want to take on those contracts without sweeteners? I hope no one bails them out and trades them actual assets.
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I’d be open to take Lafreniere off their hands!
 
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