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League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

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HTFN said:
I don't want anything to do with Marner because he's clearly a f***ing loser.

If we're going out trying to nab a high price piece because we don't want to be a rebuilding franchise the worst way to do that is to take on the guy being punted by a proposed competitor.

Marner doesn't have the stuff, don't care if he helps the goal chase or makes regular season plays, they can't tie themselves to that unless he sees some real significant change.
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Who is that clear winner the Caps can sign to improve their scoring potential?

Marner produces. Soft or not, how could you say no to an opportunity to acquire a 100-point forward when only 3 of our players have even scored 40 this year? Especially if a guy is a great passer, which is what the team needs most. He's not a player who relies on physical talent so much he will steeply decline when past his prime. And haven't we had great success with players punted by supposed contenders? Orpik, Niskanen, Oshie?

We talk so much about tanking and high draft picks, but a player who will be better than Marner isn't guaranteed in any draft class at all, and most times there will be only a couple of those.
 
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Acallabeth said:
Who is that clear winner the Caps can sign to improve their scoring potential?

Marner produces. Soft or not, how could you say no to an opportunity to acquire a 100-point forward when only 3 of our players have even scored 40 this year? Especially if a guy is a great passer, which is what the team needs most. He's not a player who relies on physical talent so much he will steeply decline when past his prime. And haven't we had great success with players punted by supposed contenders? Orpik, Niskanen, Oshie?

We talk so much about tanking and high draft picks, but a player who will be better than Marner isn't guaranteed in any draft class at all, and most times there will be only a couple of those.
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Also, isn’t everyone a loser until they win it the first time? Would you pass on McDavid since he haven’t even been close to winning it yet. A really weak argument IMO. (Not aimed at you Acallabeth)
 
MW6 said:
Also, isn’t everyone a loser until they win it the first time? Would you pass on McDavid since he haven’t even been close to winning it yet. A really weak argument IMO. (Not aimed at you Acallabeth)
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It isn't about that they haven't won so far.

It's about the way that they play, and the way they've so far approached playoff games that make me think it's not a winning move.

If we just want someone who can push play in the regular season and get everyone some points I get it, and I'm fine with it, but let's not pretend this is a move at this point that signifies a better playoff motivation or outcome. He's not the player that gets that done, and most certainly not the one to carry an effort (which is what this team would need right now to really do it).

You're not going to find me thumbing my nose at a lot of players more talented than our roster collectively, and I wouldn't mind Marner, but he's the definition of a regular season stopgap to keep the team in the mid-range, neither seriously competing nor tanking.
 
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I’m not a huge fan of Marner. He seems like such an asshole and he never shows up in crunch time. Both Nylander and Matthews were giving it to him on the bench last night and Marner threw a temper tantrum.

Nylander is the one I would want if the Leafs go crazy and blow up the team this offseason.
 
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hb12xchamps said:
I’m not a huge fan of Marner. He seems like such an asshole and he never shows up in crunch time. Both Nylander and Matthews were giving it to him on the bench last night and Marner threw a temper tantrum.

Nylander is the one I would want if the Leafs go crazy and blow up the team this offseason.
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I like Nylander quite a bit but man do I hope the Leafs think as lowly as you and many others think of Marner. He does lead the Leafs in playoff scoring over the past 3 postseasons, and also is their best forward in terms of 5v5 goal differential (+0.65 per 60) and second best in 5v5 xG differential since 2017.

He's going to be acquired for pennies on the dollar by some team and he's going to do great, just like Oshie was acquired by DC and then killed it.
 
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hb12xchamps said:
I’m not a huge fan of Marner. He seems like such an asshole and he never shows up in crunch time. Both Nylander and Matthews were giving it to him on the bench last night and Marner threw a temper tantrum.

Nylander is the one I would want if the Leafs go crazy and blow up the team this offseason.
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I saw the video of them all bitching on the bench. I don’t think Marner was reacting to them yelling at him. Just overall frustration.

twabby said:
I like Nylander quite a bit but man do I hope the Leafs think as lowly as you and many others think of Marner. He does lead the Leafs in playoff scoring over the past 3 postseasons, and also is their best forward in terms of 5v5 goal differential (+0.65 per 60) and second best in 5v5 xG differential since 2017.

He's going to be acquired for pennies on the dollar by some team and he's going to do great, just like Oshie was acquired by DC and then killed it.
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The Leafs will have 4 forwards making $10M+ next year. Someone will have to go. I suspect they will try and move Nylander especially after his playing in regular season and then not in playoffs. I would love to get him “cheap” and we are one of the few interesting options with Cap space Nylander and Leafs will have. maybe Jensen going back. Maybe Jensen and McMichael. Maybe picks. But yes, lets do something to get a scorer please.
 
twabby said:
I like Nylander quite a bit but man do I hope the Leafs think as lowly as you and many others think of Marner. He does lead the Leafs in playoff scoring over the past 3 postseasons, and also is their best forward in terms of 5v5 goal differential (+0.65 per 60) and second best in 5v5 xG differential since 2017.

He's going to be acquired for pennies on the dollar by some team and he's going to do great, just like Oshie was acquired by DC and then killed it.
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Marner leads Nylander by a whopping 1 point over the past three seasons while Nylander beats him in goals 12 to 5
 
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hb12xchamps said:
Marner leads Nylander by a whopping 1 point over the past three seasons while Nylander beats him in goals 12 to 5
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Assume that is playoffs. I looked last night so my numbers might be off a bit but Marner is a 30 goal scores and Nylander is a 40 goal scorer.

and then we can go back to the Reinhart discussion as well since he will cost about the same (10-12M). But we need a goal scorer.
 
hb12xchamps said:
Marner leads Nylander by a whopping 1 point over the past three seasons while Nylander beats him in goals 12 to 5
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I'm not saying Nylander is bad. I'm merely making the point that Marner is getting crucified right now despite him still being their most productive postseason player and having a big positive impact in the postseason.

He's a great player and if he waives his NMC someone is going to get him for dirt cheap. I'd like Washington to get him because they need a star two-way player whose primary offensive strength is playmaking.

Who is Washington's primary setup man right now?
 
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twabby said:
I'm not saying Nylander is bad. I'm merely making the point that Marner is getting crucified right now despite him still being their most productive postseason player and having a big positive impact in the postseason.

He's a great player and if he waives his NMC someone is going to get him for dirt cheap. I'd like Washington to get him because they need a star two-way player whose primary offensive strength is playmaking.

Who is Washington's primary setup man right now?
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who are the finishers?

Will Marner have as many assists with this Caps roster?
 
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Yes, we need finishers (now). Protas McMichael and Lappy can all be setup guys. Can maybe chip in. Same with Wilson and Oshie. We need someone who can score.
 
twabby said:
I'm not saying Nylander is bad. I'm merely making the point that Marner is getting crucified right now despite him still being their most productive postseason player and having a big positive impact in the postseason.

He's a great player and if he waives his NMC someone is going to get him for dirt cheap. I'd like Washington to get him because they need a star two-way player whose primary offensive strength is playmaking.

Who is Washington's primary setup man right now?
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Like others have said I’m more worried about finding someone who can put the puck in the net. If it wasn’t for Ovechkins late season surge, this team would be toast.

I guess my thoughts are that I’d prefer Nylander over Marner. If Marner became available and wanted to waive to come to Washington and the cost was reasonable I’d be all over it. That’s assuming he doesn’t bring locker room baggage with him. Carbs would be a good judge of that IMO. It’s just odd that most of the negative stories surrounding Leaf players always seem to migrate towards Marner.
 
g00n said:
who are the finishers?

Will Marner have as many assists with this Caps roster?
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Of course he probably won't have as many assists. That doesn't mean he wouldn't improve the team immensely.



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Look at all of the shot-types where they are among the league's worst in creation. Shots with passes, center lane assists, high danger passes, one-timers, etc.

It's hard to buy finishing as their primary problem when they are among the league's worst in generating dangerous chances. How often do fans lament how there's just nothing going on offensively, with players being held to the outside and possessions ending in no opportunities? The numbers bear out this frustration: they need a quality setup man or four.
 
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twabby said:
Of course he probably won't have as many assists. That doesn't mean he wouldn't improve the team immensely.



It's hard to buy finishing as their primary problem when they are among the league's worst in generating dangerous chances. How often do fans lament how there's just nothing going on offensively, with players being held to the outside and possessions ending in no opportunities? The numbers bear out this frustration: they need a quality setup man or four.
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What is the metric here? Not quite -2 "high danger passes" per 60 vs the league?

How many goals per year does that equate to per season, at their shooting %?

BIG SCARY RED BAR CHART BAD.
 
g00n said:
What is the metric here? Not quite -2 "high danger passes" per 60 vs the league?

How many goals per year does that equate to per season, at their shooting %?

BIG SCARY RED BAR CHART BAD.
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It's a z score
 
twabby said:
It's a z score
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The Oilers lead the league in high danger shots for per 60 at 4.54. Caps are at 3.03. So there's about 1.5 HDS/60 difference. Both teams shoot about 23-25% on those chances.

So we're talking about 123 more shots per season, and about 30 more goals. So one more goal almost every 3rd game.

Imagine if Oshie, Wilson, Kuzy, Backstrom or whoever else just scored a few more goals. Or if we had one more 30 goal scorer. That would make up that difference.

How many high danger passes actually lead to high danger shots? Not all of them. So a delta in passes per 60 might not even increase the shots all that much, so maybe not even 1 more goal ever 3rd game.

IOW I don't see that as the biggest problem. If you really WANT to see more fancy passing and come up with quasi-statistic justifications for going out and getting a "playmaker" maybe this appeals to you. But the fact is shooters find a way to shoot, and finishers find a way to finish. The Caps have been among the worst in the league at both.
 
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NHL refs man they stink. Even with the replay they still counted the Jets goal. That was so clearly off sides. How do they not use the same tech as soccer for off sides and goal line calls?
 
bacchist said:
How can you score if you can't enter the offensive zone?
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Part of it is having more scoring options so they can’t just key on the puck carrier. Lappy has been pretty good at carrying the puck and he will get better. Right now getting the puck in the zone is more dump and chase. but scorers find a way to get in a position to score. But between scorers, playmakers, and zone entries, Zone entries are the least of our worries.
 
DWGie26 said:
I saw the video of them all bitching on the bench. I don’t think Marner was reacting to them yelling at him. Just overall frustration.


The Leafs will have 4 forwards making $10M+ next year. Someone will have to go. I suspect they will try and move Nylander especially after his playing in regular season and then not in playoffs. I would love to get him “cheap” and we are one of the few interesting options with Cap space Nylander and Leafs will have. maybe Jensen going back. Maybe Jensen and McMichael. Maybe picks. But yes, lets do something to get a scorer please.
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I think it is too. They believe the media hype and their mega star doesn't perform in the playoffs when it counts. Additionally, he sees Sammy regularly and probably had enough.
 
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