Historically rather unlikely, in the 20th century perhaps. Krk first became a part of a Croat state in the form of Yugoslavia after 1920. More likely would have been for Croats among better-off townsfolk to Latinize and eventually when the tables turned perhaps discover their other roots again.
NHL players of Yugoslavian descent
- Thread starter crobro
- Start date
-
ALL Pickem Pools are now open - NFL Survivor, NFL Pickem AND NHL Survivor Click here for info and to join a pool
Krk - Wikipedia
It was apart of Croatia pre 1430.
Prezime Celebrini @ Acta Croatica
Celebriniji u Hrvatskoj uglavnom su Hrvati (<a href="/hr/location/malinska_dubasnica">s otoka Krka</a>), a rijetko i Crnogorci (iz <a href="/hr/location/pula...
actacroatica.com
Celebrini's consider themselves Croats.
Not that this matters, but prior to the 20th century Krk was ruled by Croatian kings only briefly between 1069 and 1115. And even much of that period the crown belonged to King of Hungary. There are no sources that would have referred to any locals as Croats at the time or indeed until well after 1430.
Besides in 1430 the island did not change hands, local nobles were merely Latinized as the Pope recognized their dubious claim to an ancient Roman bloodline. It's possible that they were of Roman descent, but almost certainly not of a ruling dynasty. This papal recognition made them semi-independent for a while, but after causing trouble with the Hungarians they were removed by Venice in favor of republican rule in 1480. Venice eventually lost to Napoleon in 1797. Only after that did a distinct Croat identity start to form.
Besides in 1430 the island did not change hands, local nobles were merely Latinized as the Pope recognized their dubious claim to an ancient Roman bloodline. It's possible that they were of Roman descent, but almost certainly not of a ruling dynasty. This papal recognition made them semi-independent for a while, but after causing trouble with the Hungarians they were removed by Venice in favor of republican rule in 1480. Venice eventually lost to Napoleon in 1797. Only after that did a distinct Croat identity start to form.
Nonsense
It is known that from around 875 the Byzantine town paid the Croatian rulers 110 gold pieces a year to be able peacefully to keep their hold there.
Baška tablet - Wikipedia
Baška tablet (Croatian: Bašćanska ploča, pronounced [bâʃt͡ɕanskaː plɔ̂t͡ʃa]) is one of the first monuments containing an inscription in the Croatian recension of the Church Slavonic language, dating from c. 1100 AD. On it Croatian ethnonym and king Demetrius Zvonimir are mentioned for the first time in native Croatian language. The inscription is written in the Glagolitic script. It was discovered in 1851 at Church of St. Lucy in Jurandvor near the village of Baška on the Croatian island of Krk.
In other words it was Byzantine and they at one point paid tribute to the Croats on the continent to avoid warfare after losing the land route from Constantinople to the Theme of Dalmatia.Nonsense
It is known that from around 875 the Byzantine town paid the Croatian rulers 110 gold pieces a year to be able peacefully to keep their hold there.
Baška tablet - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Baška tablet (Croatian: Bašćanska ploča, pronounced [bâʃt͡ɕanskaː plɔ̂t͡ʃa]) is one of the first monuments containing an inscription in the Croatian recension of the Church Slavonic language, dating from c. 1100 AD. On it Croatian ethnonym and king Demetrius Zvonimir are mentioned for the first time in native Croatian language. The inscription is written in the Glagolitic script. It was discovered in 1851 at Church of St. Lucy in Jurandvor near the village of Baška on the Croatian island of Krk.
On the continent the Kingdom of Croatia was established ca. 925. But as said, they only ruled Krk as a part of their kingdom after the Byzantines for a few decades in the late 11th century before going extinct themselves, after which the Hungarians successors soon lost to Venice.
Im asserting the fact the Croatian Identity did indeed exsist pre 1797 as you mentioned in an earlier post...
Byzantines may have ruled at points in time but Croats did live on Krk and always have lived on Krk. Bascanska ploca further stamps my point.
Also Celebrini is a Croat - going back to the main point of the topic.
Byzantines may have ruled at points in time but Croats did live on Krk and always have lived on Krk. Bascanska ploca further stamps my point.
Also Celebrini is a Croat - going back to the main point of the topic.
The Slavic Byzantine subjects that arrived in the early medieval period after 600 were known as Sclaveni and had no connection to Croatia for centuries. The Croats likely also have some Sclaveni ancestry besides Antean, but that's a whole different branch of the tree on the continent. Croat nationalism is a 19th century phenomenon. After the Napoleonic wars the new Austrian rulers wanted to encourage Slavic identities in order to ensure that the newly conquered territories wouldn't fall to Italy anymore.
Croats arrived on the adriatic in the 7th century.
Nationalism is a 19th century phenomenon.
You needed to add "modern" in that sentence.
Prezime Celebrini @ Acta Croatica
Celebriniji u Hrvatskoj uglavnom su Hrvati (<a href="/hr/location/malinska_dubasnica">s otoka Krka</a>), a rijetko i Crnogorci (iz <a href="/hr/location/pula...
actacroatica.com
Fact is that refuted that the celebrinis are Croats. Well it looks like they are.
Macklin has that checkerboard blood in his veins.
Yes, but that doesn't make all Slavic peoples in the region Croats. Croats were but one of several Slavic groups that arrived in the medieval period. Genetically we can see today that the islanders have distinct origins quite different to the mainland, and more pronounced in the older settlements within the island.
So talking about modern, it's entirely possible that people of (some significant) Italian origin emigrating from Krk to North America in the early 20th century would have adopted a Croat identity in the decades before, but much longer than that it's hard to see how as even within the entirely Slavic or Illyrian population such Croat identity didn't really exist.
Thats bollocks. Now your clutching at straws. Croatian Identity exsisted especially in Krk as shown by the Baska Tablet. "Croatian Identity didnt exsist", i take offence to that statement. Thats Nonsense which needs to be refuted. Serbs arrived in a smaller number later on in Raska. Which is 800km away from Krk. Slavic minorities whatever...
His Father played for Croatia FC. Another independent poster mentioned his father is of Croatian Origin. If he was "Italian" which is a far more modern concept than Croat, then he wouldnt play for Croatia FC. Every "italian" i have ever come across doesnt want anything to do with Croatia - let alone play for Croatia FC. His Fathers Mothes side is most likely also Croatian.
Playing for Croatia FC in 1990 would aso indicate he is a Croatian Nationalist. Youd probably get a smack in the mouth from Rick if you didnt say he was Croatian.
Rick Celebrini - Men's Soccer - University of British Columbia Athletics
Rick Celebrini (12) Defender
gothunderbirds.ca
Prezime Celebrini @ Acta Croatica
Celebriniji u Hrvatskoj uglavnom su Hrvati (<a href="/hr/location/malinska_dubasnica">s otoka Krka</a>), a rijetko i Crnogorci (iz <a href="/hr/location/pula...
actacroatica.com
Baška tablet - Wikipedia
Its all there.
Leave it here. Its been figured out.
Last edited:
"Croat" was no umbrella term for Slavs of the region historically, but a very narrow definition that in no case encompassed anything beyond direct Croat rule. Catholic Slavs in this region were most typically referred to as Illyrians when need arose to differentiate them from other Slavs. And that persisted for centuries, with no emerging Croat identity before the 19th century. The same is true for "Serb", but that's a whole different rabbit hole.Thats bollocks. Now your clutching at straws. Croatian Identity exsisted especially in Krk as shown by the Baska Tablet. "Croatian Identity didnt exsist", i take offence to that statement. Thats Nonsense which needs to be refuted. Serbs arrived in a smaller number later on in Raska. Which is 800km away from Krk. Slavic minorities whatever...
His Father played for Croatia FC. Another independent poster mentioned his father is of Croatian Origin. If he was "Italian" which is a far more modern concept than Croat, then he wouldnt play for Croatia FC. Every "italian" i have ever come across doesnt want anything to do with Croatia - let alone play for Croatia FC. His Fathers Mothes side is most likely also Croatian.
Playing for Croatia FC in 1990 would aso indicate he is a Croatian Nationalist. Youd probably get a smack in the mouth from Rick if you didnt say he was Croatian.
Rick Celebrini - Men's Soccer - University of British Columbia Athletics
Rick Celebrini (12) Defender
Prezime Celebrini @ Acta Croatica
Celebriniji u Hrvatskoj uglavnom su Hrvati (<a href="/hr/location/malinska_dubasnica">s otoka Krka</a>), a rijetko i Crnogorci (iz <a href="/hr/location/pula...
Baška tablet - Wikipedia
Its all there.
Leave it here. Its been figured out.
Of course modern Italian ethnicity was predated by other Italic identities, but it makes little sense to speak of Venetians after La Serenissima was dissolved etc. In this case for the sake of clarity I would use the (more narrow) term Venetian until 1797 and (more broad) Italian after 1797. After all the only concrete difference is that these people lost their republic at that point.
I'm fine with Mr. Celebrini defining himself absolutely how he wants to, Italian, Croat, Canadian, all of the three, just disagree with the idea that the ancestral home would be historically Croatian in particular. His mother's side may very well be all Croat, I have no idea, but Celebrini is an Italian name.
As a sidenote, with "Croatia FC" I assume you mean Croatia SC of Vancouver? Many of their players are black so I wouldn't say that's a definite indication of anything.
Playing for Croatia FC or SC as an italian from Krk. Doubt it. Italians who lived in Croatia and left (WW2 etc) dont want anything to do with Croatia. They hold a grudge and still have dreams of taking Dalmatia and Kvarner back. In 1990 playing for Croatia FC - A high percernetage of Croats filled those teams, Particularly at that time as the nation was at War and the Croatian community was very nationalistic. So its definently an indication of something. Not sure how you can miss that.
Croats lived in areas Venetians ruled and they considered themselves Croats. Baska tablet proves that. You probably should be clicking on the links and having a read.
Having an Italian ancestor from 600 years ago doesnt make you italian. When all your other ancestors are Croats.
Rick's Fathers name was Anton (a Croatian Name).
One thing we know for sure is that Krk - Croatia is his homeland now.
Last edited:
That Baška tablet merely states the fact that Zvonimir was King of Croatia at the time and ruled over Krk. For 14 years, from 1075 to 1089. Besides him only his direct predecessor Peter Krešimir IV and his direct successor Stephen II ruled over the island for a couple of years. After Stephen Hungarians took the crown and soon lost the island to Venice. In all that period including the Hungarian rule lasted for 45 or so years.
