NHL NOLA expansion?

[No Fun Shogun]

Phoenix is on that list. I don't see a scenario where New Orleans is, no matter how big of a check they want to write.

We can talk about should they or shouldn’t they until we’re blue in the face, but truth be told we’d have a short list of open markets that the NHL wouldn’t consider if someone offered them a billion dollars for a team. I don’t think this will go anywhere, and truth be told I think this is more a solid to the league to drum up asking prices elsewhere more than anything, but if someone in Louisiana offered Bettman ten figures for a team, we’d be guessing swamp- or Cajun-related nicknames for a new team pretty quickly.

 

[GreenHornet]

the problem w/ the AHL option in New Orleans is the league bylaw that requires an NHL Partner..... doubtful Crelin can be convinced about a return there similiar to how St. John's collapsed w/o a resolution even though T/R continued once DSE collapsed afterall the infighting w/ SJSE WHICH is the primary reason the Leafs bolted for Coca Cola Coliseum

Maybe a possible partnership with a potential Houston expansion team? Just spitballin'.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

They didn't force them to Cincinnati, the team and owner in Baltimore was losing money and sold. That whole saga is more than 20 years old at this point too -- Monumental Sports wasn't a thing and Leonsis didn't even own the Caps. A whole lot has changed in those 20 years in the NHL and pro sports in general, and the fate of a minor league team in the 90s doesn't mean anything about the long-term viability of hockey in a market.

I'm sure STL would be annoyed by a KC franchise, just like Dallas would with a Houston one, but money talks and those issues could be ironed out.

The NHL has proven it can not just survive but thrive in mid/small size American markets such as Columbus, Vegas, San Jose, and Raleigh. What you need is 1) serious owners willing to spend 2) a good stadium and 3) a sufficient corporate base. I don't think any of the potential expansion candidates, even Houston and Atlanta, have all 3 right now. It certainly doesn't mean that they couldn't at some point in the future.

Kansas City has no interest in the metro..... their existing hockey franchise is marketed as Kansas City but plays in Independence..... similiar to Indy playing now in Fishers, not the Indy metro when that arena opened. this year.... the point is there have been reports that Monumental wants an a hockey franchise somewhere closer to the Capitals base..... St. Louis got tired as well of being an owner/operator as well after the Peoria experiment backfired.....it's why they became strictly an affiliate..... Cincinnati is a no even this day because the Cyclones existed just as they did then to now..... it's also why the AHL Collapsed there after the local ownership collapsed go look up Cincinnati Railraiders...... that team never got off the ground after Anaheim moved on

Maybe a possible partnership with a potential Houston expansion team? Just spitballin'.

if Houston ever gets awarded.....

 

[dj4aces]

If we were to believe Kevin Weekes every time he took to social to parrot some big news about some random city or some random potential ownership group wanting an NHL team or “seriously trying to get an NHL team”, the league would have 64 teams by now.

To be fair, Weekes reporting an interested owner/city isn't the same as reporting the league actually expanding to said city. That's why the league is still 32 teams, and not 64.

 

[qc14]

Kansas City has no interest in the metro..... their existing hockey franchise is marketed as Kansas City but plays in Independence..... similiar to Indy playing now in Fishers, not the Indy metro when that arena opened. this year.... the point is there have been reports that Monumental wants an a hockey franchise somewhere closer to the Capitals base..... St. Louis got tired as well of being an owner/operator as well after the Peoria experiment backfired.....it's why they became strictly an affiliate..... Cincinnati is a no even this day because the Cyclones existed just as they did then to now..... it's also why the AHL Collapsed there after the local ownership collapsed go look up Cincinnati Railraiders...... that team never got off the ground after Anaheim moved on

No disrespect to the ECHL and AHL but the NHL is different -- the interest will follow if a top team is awarded, and a top team will be awarded if ownership and an arena are in place. A theoretical Cincinnati NHL team would absolutely cannibalize the Cyclones (and probably would buy them/their branding out anyways!).

The future success of the NHL in that and every market has everything to do with ownership and an arena and nothing to do with the politics of AHL affiliations in the early 2000s ...

 

[JMCx4]

NOLA is a small market (~1.3m). However, there was talk last year of a group in NOLA having stated to the press there that they wanted to bring the league to the region, so this really doesn't surprise me.

Ah yes, the puck-in-the-sky owner of the new Federal Prospects Hockey League team in Northern Louisiana, Nic Perkin. His words on the topic would seem to be leaning toward prophetic (or some other word that roughly sounds the same) ... “If Las Vegas can stand up a championship hockey team in the middle of the desert, New Orleans can stand up a NHL team in the middle of the bayou ... ."

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

No disrespect to the ECHL and AHL but the NHL is different -- the interest will follow if a top team is awarded, and a top team will be awarded if ownership and an arena are in place. A theoretical Cincinnati NHL team would absolutely cannibalize the Cyclones (and probably would buy them/their branding out anyways!).

The future success of the NHL in that and every market has everything to do with ownership and an arena and nothing to do with the politics of AHL affiliations in the early 2000s ...

wrong.... YOU cannot have an AHL Team without an NHL Affiliate..... it is required by AHL Bylaw and has been the standard since the mid 1990s, after Baltimore and Binghamton fielded teams that weren't even competitive in any sport, never mind hockey.... it's why those teams over the decades whether they stayed in the same market or relocated to another market.... Springfield, as an example, where the AHL is based, has had three different franchises since the league has existed.... one team relocated to Worcester and Springfield was granted another franchise to continue until the transfer and/or creation of the Pacific Division in 2014..... it's also why 5 of the 6 franchises the AHL ADDED in 2001, outside of the Utah/Cleveland swaP WERE TOLD TO HAVE AN AFFILIATION upon admission to the AHL; Cincinnati had two different arenas in play when the Bandits arrived in Cincinnati.... it's why the Cyclones went idle for multiple years...... any proposed Cincinnati team other than the Cyclones isn't realistic..... it's been done and was an abject disaster putting two leagues against each other in the same market.....

That's why the majority, if not all AHL Franchises, are owned or operated or both by the NHL Affiliate, w/ few exceptions to that standard.... it's also why you don't see Hershey under consideration to be promoted from one league to another or subject to relocation.... the reaasoning there is that franchise itself... rivals the NHL Original 6.... and is governed by a trust, not the Corporate entity that operates them....

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Hutch lives!

 

[Tawnos]

We can talk about should they or shouldn’t they until we’re blue in the face, but truth be told we’d have a short list of open markets that the NHL wouldn’t consider if someone offered them a billion dollars for a team. I don’t think this will go anywhere, and truth be told I think this is more a solid to the league to drum up asking prices elsewhere more than anything, but if someone in Louisiana offered Bettman ten figures for a team, we’d be guessing swamp- or Cajun-related nicknames for a new team pretty quickly.

I fundamentally disagree with that. For all the accusations that the NHL is after the quick buck, everything that’s come out about their view on expansion indicates that they’re more interested in being targeted with it. They’re not after a quick buck. They’re looking for teams that genuinely contribute something to the long-term outlook for the league, and that includes stability. You won’t get that from just any market with a billionaire willing to write a check. This isn’t an open process. The league has to want the market as much as an owner wants them.

The NHL takes these meetings for a few reasons. One of them is to keep the buzz going. Another is to show certain potential owners that membership is sought after. But also, if they find someone they like (with the right money) in a market that they don’t really want, they might be able to match them up with a team down the road. Not necessarily expansion, either. They met with people from New Orleans, but maybe those are future owners of the St Louis Blues.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

How are the minor league teams doing down there?

 

[LPHabsFan]

I don’t see one single advantage to going with NO over Atlanta or Phoenix. Literally all of the indicators, all of them from size to economics to sports culture to geography to history with hockey, are even worse.

If anyone wants to object with “less competition”, that’s absolutely not the case when you understand just how much that city is dominated by football compared to Atlanta or Phoenix.

I understand all that, but you're missing the point I was laying the bait for.

Based on everything we know about hockey, and the economics of the game, both in general, and those two particular cities, I would say the chance of success, which I define as being somewhere between "not requiring a long playoff run to be HRR positive, consistently high attendance numbers, and non abysmal ratings all of which happen beyond year 5 - 7", as being pretty damn low.

Whereas with NOLA, considering they don't have all the negatives associated with, and therefore near certainty of failure, with the two above mentioned cities, their chances are by definition better than both Atlanta and Phoenix, even if when looking at all the metrics, the chance is still fairly low.

Hence, they having a better shot of success.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I fundamentally disagree with that. For all the accusations that the NHL is after the quick buck, everything that’s come out about their view on expansion indicates that they’re more interested in being targeted with it. They’re not after a quick buck. They’re looking for teams that genuinely contribute something to the long-term outlook for the league, and that includes stability. You won’t get that from just any market with a billionaire willing to write a check. This isn’t an open process. The league has to want the market as much as an owner wants them.

The NHL takes these meetings for a few reasons. One of them is to keep the buzz going. Another is to show certain potential owners that membership is sought after. But also, if they find someone they like (with the right money) in a market that they don’t really want, they might be able to match them up with a team down the road. Not necessarily expansion, either. They met with people from New Orleans, but maybe those are future owners of the St Louis Blues.

I think it actually splits the difference. If they were looking for a carefree quick buck, they'd have a far lower asking price to entice more bidders. The increasingly large bid to entry is their weeding process to not let cruddy parties and disorganized knobs from trying to bid. If anyone drops a billion dollars on the table, barring them being the mad hatter it's a sign that a billion isn't a prohibitive amount to them, which makes them serious from the NHL's perspective.

I honestly think that it would have to be a fundamentally crazy situation for the NHL to turn down any party willing to offer them that much just for an expansion team, and in which case my hunch is that the NHL would try to still work with them albeit maybe steering them to a perceived better city.

After all, the NHL nonchalantly name dropped Omaha as an interested party a few years ago. Go back in time and propose Omaha as an expansion candidate on these boards, and us mods would be busy deleting incredulous flaming replies.

 

[dj4aces]

I understand all that, but you're missing the point I was laying the bait for.

Based on everything we know about hockey, and the economics of the game, both in general, and those two particular cities, I would say the chance of success, which I define as being somewhere between "not requiring a long playoff run to be HRR positive, consistently high attendance numbers, and non abysmal ratings all of which happen beyond year 5 - 7", as being pretty damn low.

Whereas with NOLA, considering they don't have all the negatives associated with, and therefore near certainty of failure, with the two above mentioned cities, their chances are by definition better than both Atlanta and Phoenix, even if when looking at all the metrics, the chance is still fairly low.

Hence, they having a better shot of success.

I can't speak for Phoenix. There's plenty of folks here who can, though. But Atlanta? I think it's a little odd to characterize it as needing a team to consistently make the playoffs, have high TV ratings, have high attendance, and all within five to seven years or fail. The reason the Thrashers left is well documented, even including some inside knowledge of the situation.

All Atlanta ever needed to succeed was a good owner. Should NOLA eventually end up with a team, that's all it would need too.

 

[takimaki]

This has to be a joke.

The absolute ceiling in the NOLA market is an AHL team, and even with that lower tier target, they would have to make a real concerted effort to get one. If it needs to be tied to a Houston NHL team…they would be competing with San Antonio and the economic powerhouse of Texas.

Maybe an ECHL team is more realistic.

 

[LadyStanley]

New Orleans 1.3m residents, 17.7m annual visitors.

(Las Vegas 2.3m residents, 44m annual visitors.)

 

[GKJ]

Who was the dude who was talking about this last year and was bringing a, like, SPHL team to a town in northern Louisiana or something

 

[aqib]

The cities I listed as possibly being in the running were based off of cities the league has mentioned within the last year or so, plus NOLA. It's not an indicator of what I personally feel would be a good fit for the NHL. The good fits still remains to be Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix. Every other city has been mentioned, in one way or another, by Bettman or Daly as having shown interest.

Could NOLA work? In its present situation, not at all. In 10-20 years, should the city attract more corporate growth, more population in general, and build a new barn, perhaps.

Has New Orleans been able to attract any business since Katrina?

 

[Melrose Munch]

They went to Salt Lake, which is smaller. Anything can happen.

 

[HisIceness]

We all saw the video of that guy playing hockey on a frozen Bourbon street last month, clearly the NHL did too

In all seriousness, this seems like an avenue to get back into the ECHL. New Orleans isn't a big market and already has NFL and NBA, plus LSU football is a big deal there and isn't far away, NHL just seems like way too much of a stretch.

Who was the dude who was talking about this last year and was bringing a, like, SPHL team to a town in northern Louisiana or something

Owner of the Monroe Mocassins I think. I think it was at the introduction of the new team and he stated his desire to see the NHL in New Orleans.

 

[LPHabsFan]

I can't speak for Phoenix. There's plenty of folks here who can, though. But Atlanta? I think it's a little odd to characterize it as needing a team to consistently make the playoffs, have high TV ratings, have high attendance, and all within five to seven years or fail. The reason the Thrashers left is well documented, even including some inside knowledge of the situation.

All Atlanta ever needed to succeed was a good owner. Should NOLA eventually end up with a team, that's all it would need too.

Well firstly, that is my own definition of success. Whether or not other people choose to have a different definition is completely up to them. Secondly, I said they would have to have that beyond the 5-7 year period as there's a general assumption that the first 5 - 7 years can still be part of the honeymoon phase.

 

[GKJ]

We all saw the video of that guy playing hockey on a frozen Bourbon street last month, clearly the NHL did too

In all seriousness, this seems like an avenue to get back into the ECHL. New Orleans isn't a big market and already has NFL and NBA, plus LSU football is a big deal there and isn't far away, NHL just seems like way too much of a stretch.



Owner of the Monroe Mocassins I think. I think it was at the introduction of the new team and he stated his desire to see the NHL in New Orleans.

Yeah, I forget the dude’s name. I think I started the thread

 

[aqib]

They went to Salt Lake, which is smaller. Anything can happen.

Salt Lake is not only growing. Goldman Sachs announced 350 new jobs in Utah last fall. They've been expanding there for years. That's one example. Who is expanding in Louisiana. Also its wealthier. Per capita income in Utah is twice Louisiana. Also Utah doesn't have NFL. Even college football, LSU's stadium holds almost as many as Utah and BYU combined.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Salt Lake is not only growing. Goldman Sachs announced 350 new jobs in Utah last fall. They've been expanding there for years. That's one example. Who is expanding in Louisiana. Also its wealthier. Per capita income in Utah is twice Louisiana. Also Utah doesn't have NFL. Even college football, LSU's stadium holds almost as many as Utah and BYU combined.

Fair enough. I'm not in favour of this. I prefer Houston. I think the group was drumming up headlines here.

 

[aqib]

Fair enough. I'm not in favour of this. I prefer Houston. I think the group was drumming up headlines here.

A lot depends on the future of the Pelicans. Gayle Benson is almost 80 and she has no heirs. The teams will be sold and the money given to charity. So if she passes before a new arena deal is done that team could move so it opens up a slim possibility. I can't see New Orleans supporting 2 winter sports teams.

 

[Tawnos]

They went to Salt Lake, which is smaller. Anything can happen.

New Orleans MSA: 962k
Salt Lake City MSA: 1.3m

New Orleans CSA: 1.3m
Salt Lake City CSA: 2.8m

New Orleans DMA: 50th
Salt Lake City DMA: 28th

People often get thrown off by the Salt Lake MSA not including Provo and Ogden, which clearly should be part of any assessment, but even then New Orleans is smaller. In reality, SLC is closer to a medium sized market than a small market. New Orleans is definitely a small one.