NHL Expansion back on agenda?

[voyageur]

The key word there is “might.” I don’t recall this ever remotely being a pressing demand by Canadian broadcast partners. And if it was it that was, it doesn’t seem like there’s enough muscle to sway the NHL into a major realignment.

Push comes to shove, someone will (over)pay for an NHL deal north of the border.

I think Toronto in particular wants to be competing against the biggest American markets, New York, Boston, Detroit. The time zones is a big issue for a lot of the teams.

Winnipeg doesn't get a single game on Hockey Night in Canada on CBC this year so they aren't important to the major networks.

I think the next media deal in Canada is blocks, similar to the NFL, which allows Rogers, Bell, and Amazon to bid. TVA vs. Bell in Quebec could be a battleground. More exposure through more platforms.

I like the idea of Quebec getting in, and moving Boston into the Metropolitan division. Renewing a Canadiens-Nordiques rivalry that could produce huge tv ratings, and allowing Boston-New York to be a legitimate NHL rivalry. Dollars and sense the arena in Quebec could certainly allow the team to generate more revenue than Atlanta as a market, especially the merchandising side. Atlanta will get a team though because of the potential to create new hockey fans, and the corporate investment the league brand covets.

I wonder if the league would ever consider an 18-16 alignment, they did run a 16-14 alignment before carefully choosing the next two western expansion markets.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

I don’t recall this ever remotely being a pressing demand by Canadian broadcast partners.

This is the funniest thing about the North Division dead-enders. You would think that if there was a massive groundswell of support for it from the Canadian teams then Sportsnet would have asked the NHL to consider it, or like you mentioned, would have had enough muscle to force it through. But not only has there not been that groundswell of support from anywhere other then fans, but teams absolutely hated the North Division because it effectively guaranteed that a good chunk of divisional games would start at prime time in Mountain or Pacific Time Zone - basically a death sentence for getting eyeballs from eastern markets.

 

[Headshot77]

The year is 2100. The NHL is a 40 Team league. 2 Conferences have 5 Divisions of 4 each.

Northwest: EDM, CGY, VAN, WPG
Pacific: SEA, LV, UTA, *Portland*
California: SJ, ANA, LA, *San Diego*
Midwest: DAL, COL, *Houston*, *Phoenix*
Great Plains: MIN, CHI, STL, *Kansas City*
---
Northeast: MON, TOR, OTT, *Quebec*
Metro: NYI, NYR, NJ, PHI
Great Lakes: DET, PIT, BUF, CBJ
Atlantic: WSH, NSH, BOS, *Virginia Beach*
Southeast: TB, FLA, CAR, *Atlanta*

 

[GreenHornet]

Atlantic: WSH, CAR, NSH, *Virginia Beach*
Southeast: TB, FLA, CAR, *Atlanta*

Are the Hurricanes playing in both divisions or does North Carolina get another team (say, in Charlotte)?

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Also, back in 2023 the final four playoff teams all ended up being from the Sun Belt, which served to impair the ratings of the Cup Final.

My proposal sets a maximum of two Sun Belt teams in the final eight - one from the South Division, and one from the West Division.

 

[Headshot77]

Are the Hurricanes playing in both divisions or does North Carolina get another team (say, in Charlotte)?

Oops.

 

[nhlfan79]

Why is this silly tangent still being discussed in this thread? It literally will never happen for very obvious reasons. Can we get back on point?

 

[cheswick]

You're both correct, but on opposite ends, and not at the middle.

The NFL I think does believe that the CFL works within their own business scheme because it allows for more labor. Even with the combined spring football league currently operating, there's always going to be a desire for high level, professional jobs. Which is why the CFL has persisted for years now - because it is the gold standard for that second level of football jobs. If the NFL was truly going to kill the CFL, then they would have done so in 2020 when the CFL was effectively on the ropes, having cancelled their season and having the Major Market Question looming as large as it has ever in decades.

The reason why the NFL isn't trying to run the CFL (or really Aussie Rules football, considering that the AFL down under is operating under the same structure of being an effective national pro league in a place that the NFL covets for international dollars) out of town is that the owners of the teams, and the commissioner really, would run to the feds the instant they heard or got a whiff of the NFL actually going into the process of taking bids for an expansion team in Toronto. And no matter what government is actually in power, there's an expectation to protect Canadian cultural interests (of which the CFL absolutely is) alongside the jobs that are present from what can be spun as the conquering American horde looking to do damage. Even with the resources Goodell and the NFL have to put up a case in that scenario, why would you bother going up against the whims of a government who's going to be intent on muzzling you, and nationalist fervor whipped up by the opposite party?

The CFL has been in far worse shape than 2020. The league was on the verge of collapse in the late 90s and the NFL actually gave them money to keep them afloat. The NFL has no interest in killing the CFL.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Why is this silly tangent still being discussed in this thread? It literally will never happen for very obvious reasons. Can we get back on point?

Why do we keep humoring that guy? He keeps talking nonsense.

 

[aqib]

You're both correct, but on opposite ends, and not at the middle.

The NFL I think does believe that the CFL works within their own business scheme because it allows for more labor. Even with the combined spring football league currently operating, there's always going to be a desire for high level, professional jobs. Which is why the CFL has persisted for years now - because it is the gold standard for that second level of football jobs. If the NFL was truly going to kill the CFL, then they would have done so in 2020 when the CFL was effectively on the ropes, having cancelled their season and having the Major Market Question looming as large as it has ever in decades.

The reason why the NFL isn't trying to run the CFL (or really Aussie Rules football, considering that the AFL down under is operating under the same structure of being an effective national pro league in a place that the NFL covets for international dollars) out of town is that the owners of the teams, and the commissioner really, would run to the feds the instant they heard or got a whiff of the NFL actually going into the process of taking bids for an expansion team in Toronto. And no matter what government is actually in power, there's an expectation to protect Canadian cultural interests (of which the CFL absolutely is) alongside the jobs that are present from what can be spun as the conquering American horde looking to do damage. Even with the resources Goodell and the NFL have to put up a case in that scenario, why would you bother going up against the whims of a government who's going to be intent on muzzling you, and nationalist fervor whipped up by the opposite party?

Decades ago that would have been the case but not anymore. There was once a time that players actually chose the CFL over the NFL, now you make more on an NFL practice squad then starting in the CFL.

The Premier of Ontario recently called for an NFL team in Toronto. https://dailyhive.com/toronto/doug-ford-toronto-nfl-team

The challenge is that there won't be government funding for a stadium. So you would need a Stan Kroenke-type person who is willing to bankroll a stadium and supporting infrastructure. The other challenge is the NFL already has TV deals in Canada so they may not view it as adding new revenues like European expansion would.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

The Premier of Ontario recently called for an NFL team in Toronto. https://dailyhive.com/toronto/doug-ford-toronto-nfl-team

Yeah, in between bulldozing the Science Centre to build a spa for his political cronies.

Once again, read this part:

And no matter what government is actually in power, there's an expectation to protect Canadian cultural interests (of which the CFL absolutely is) alongside the jobs that are present from what can be spun as the conquering American horde looking to do damage. Even with the resources Goodell and the NFL have to put up a case in that scenario, why would you bother going up against the whims of a government who's going to be intent on muzzling you, and nationalist fervor whipped up by the opposite party?

 

[ManByng]

And Milwaukee is a Northern City that would be a hit in the NHL and San Diego doesn't have much competition for the Dollar during the Winter months and lets have the Hartford Whalers come back with that Awesome logo and Hamilton could round out the NHL to 40 teams...I'd even like to see a 44 team NHL with 32 teams making the play-offs and 1 plays 16 in each Conference so no back door winning the Cup...as for my 4 other teams well Portland would be good for Seattle and Vancouver,BC,Canada,Cincinnati or Cleveland or both and Omaha or Indianapolis...and lets go a step farther and go 4 on 4 hockey with no OT's until play-offs and no F...ing 3 on 3 crap...want to see lots of goals and have the goaltenders handling 45-55 shots per game and be talking and mumbling and babbling in their sleep

I wonder if NHL hockey could work in old WHA cities like Cleveland, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, San Diego or Houston? I doubt Hartford would work again because they are in desperate need of replacing the old Hartford Civic Center or whatever it’s called now and not sure if a new one will ever be built anytime soon? Also could they draw enough to support a team again with their economy and ticket prices being high?

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

I wonder if NHL hockey could work in old WHA cities like Cleveland, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, San Diego or Houston? I doubt Hartford would work again because they are in desperate need of replacing the old Hartford Civic Center or whatever it’s called now and not sure if a new one will ever be built anytime soon? Also could they draw enough to support a team again with their economy and ticket prices being high?

I don't think its a coincidence that the NHL is going into and have into old WHA markets and why not Cincinnati and Cleveland? And the old logos and colours were great in my books...Stingers and Crusaders who doesn't like that?Indianapolis had the Detroit "farm" team way back during the era of the "Dinosaurs" so not sure about them. As for Hartford just really liked the logo not sure about the economy and a new Building but if there's a will there's a way...but my next wave of Expansion should be Quebec city or have Buttcrack Bettman's ass in a sling...time for a French-Canadiens revival of hockey rivalry and culture something that's lacking big time in the NHL

 

[voyageur]

I don't think its a coincidence that the NHL is going into and have into old WHA markets and why not Cincinnati and Cleveland? And the old logos and colours were great in my books...Stingers and Crusaders who doesn't like that?Indianapolis had the Detroit "farm" team way back during the era of the "Dinosaurs" so not sure about them. As for Hartford just really liked the logo not sure about the economy and a new Building but if there's a will there's a way...but my next wave of Expansion should be Quebec city or have Buttcrack Bettman's ass in a sling...time for a French-Canadiens revival of hockey rivalry and culture something that's lacking big time in the NHL

The WHA deserves credit for moving the needle towards the Southern U.S. Original NHL expansion went to California, where the money was. Atlanta in 1972 was a result of the WHA trying to go further South, with MIami (which failesd), Houston, which was largely successful for the era. San Diego, Phoenix, Birmingham came later. The WHA got to Denver first, before the Scouts moved there. By 1982, the NHL was no longer in Oakland, Atlanta, or Denver, almost exclusively a Northern U.S and Canadian league.

The times they have a changed. Nordiques were good for the league, their refusal to speak English on any announcement made it a challenge for anglophone announcers going into the Colisee. They were a uniquely French, Quebecois team, though I think that started to change in the 90s. Now QC accepts English because tourism is a lifeline for them.

But I think the money is in the South so that's where the NHL will go.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

The WHA deserves credit for moving the needle towards the Southern U.S. Original NHL expansion went to California, where the money was. Atlanta in 1972 was a result of the WHA trying to go further South, with MIami (which failesd), Houston, which was largely successful for the era. San Diego, Phoenix, Birmingham came later. The WHA got to Denver first, before the Scouts moved there. By 1982, the NHL was no longer in Oakland, Atlanta, or Denver, almost exclusively a Northern U.S and Canadian league.

The times they have a changed. Nordiques were good for the league, their refusal to speak English on any announcement made it a challenge for anglophone announcers going into the Colisee. They were a uniquely French, Quebecois team, though I think that started to change in the 90s. Now QC accepts English because tourism is a lifeline for them.

But I think the money is in the South so that's where the NHL will go.

I think the idea of putting WHA,NHL teams in the West other than the places they were already sprang from a bunch of veteran players playing in the old WHL where the Phoenix Roadrunner were successful...Portland was part of that too and Seattle and Vancouver,LA Blades,San Diego too and Oakland-San Francisco,Spokane,Calgary,Edmonton,Winnipeg,Brandon,Saskatoon,Victoria,New Westminister...Dallas,Fort Worth,Tulsa,Oklahoma,Omaha,Denver,Salt Lake...Memphis,Houston and Amarillo,Albuquerque came from the Central Hockey League and was on the same par perhaps a few more prospects played there whereas the WHL had old vets at the end of the line mostly

 

[hockeyguy0022]

The WHA deserves credit for moving the needle towards the Southern U.S. Original NHL expansion went to California, where the money was. Atlanta in 1972 was a result of the WHA trying to go further South, with MIami (which failesd), Houston, which was largely successful for the era. San Diego, Phoenix, Birmingham came later. The WHA got to Denver first, before the Scouts moved there. By 1982, the NHL was no longer in Oakland, Atlanta, or Denver, almost exclusively a Northern U.S and Canadian league.

The times they have a changed. Nordiques were good for the league, their refusal to speak English on any announcement made it a challenge for anglophone announcers going into the Colisee. They were a uniquely French, Quebecois team, though I think that started to change in the 90s. Now QC accepts English because tourism is a lifeline for them.

But I think the money is in the South so that's where the NHL will go.

Long live Bill Hunter, he should be the HHOF....

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Long live Bill Hunter, he should be the HHOF....

And Bobby Hull may he RIP

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

For those who continue to criticize my proposal, again I must remind you that the NHL started as an all-Canadian league, during a time the Stanley Cup was contested by multiple leagues, so until 1924 the Cup Final was guaranteed to have at least one Canadian team. My proposal brings that back in a way.

 

[Headshot77]

For those who continue to criticize my proposal, again I must remind you that the NHL started as an all-Canadian league, during a time the Stanley Cup was contested by multiple leagues, so until 1924 the Cup Final was guaranteed to have at least one Canadian team. My proposal brings that back in a way.

The world has changed a bit in the last century though

 

[Tawnos]

The world has changed a bit in the last century though

Also, it didn’t take them long to realize that being a Canadian only league would severely limit them. Basically, even the original founders of the NHL would disagree with this person’s horrible, horrible proposal.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Also, ratings for the playoffs in Canada tend to taper off if no Canadian teams are still active. This proposal will help ratings significantly.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah no shit… ratings would be helped significantly anywhere that you guarantee the teams a spot in the SCF.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Nobody cares about a counter example from a time when folks were basically still dying of the Spanish Flu.

 

[oknazevad]

You were told a year ago by numerous posters, it’s a terrible idea, and still is. There is zero chance of a North division, it was awful during Covid, half the people can’t stay up to watch 1/3 of the games.

Ask Bruins fans, Rangers fans etc if they want to be in a division with LA, SJ and Anaheim.

40 teams, ya not happening either.

Plus some of his listed cities are so profoundly stupid.

 

[SwedishFire]

Quebec fans are going to be furious

New Mexico, Puerto Rico, Haiti and Nuuk will be getting teams before Quebec.

Their are out. To close to Montreal. To small.