NHL Expansion back on agenda?

[Voight]

So thing to remember is that the NHL can afford to take a long view of things.

Take Seattle for example. City started a process to renovate the arena in 2016. Deal struck to renovate arena in 2017, and at the same time NHL officially explores expansion. 2018 expansion franchise announced. Expansion draft and team's first season in 2021.

The issue with the NHL is always, and will always be, is if someone is willing to pay the price. They'll put up with waiting for an arena, or waiting for renos, for quite awhile - if they get their money.

This isn't entirely correct. The process wasn't started until December 2017 and that was only when they knew the NHL would give them an expansion team.

 

[StreetHawk]

This isn't entirely correct. The process wasn't started until December 2017 and that was only when they knew the NHL would give them an expansion team.

City owned the arena and still do. Didn’t ok any renovation until the nhl granted Seattle a team. Same would apply for the Atl bids. No final approvals until team is awarded.

NHL waited nearly 30 years before an nhl team got to Seattle from their early 90’s expansion until 2021 when the puck finally dropped at a climate Pledge.

 

[Melrose Munch]

NHL has historically been about getting their money for their franchise vs location of said team.
So, they have no problems not being in Houston if TF won’t meet their price. And if no one else is looking to build another arena they will just move forward without this market.

NHL wanted the Pacific Northwest for a very long time since the expansion in the early 90’s. When the Seattle bid was screed over by the then nba Sonics owner. They were also disappointed that Allen did not apply for that round in the late 90’s for Portland. But moves in without a team in that area of the USA.

This of course has led to multiple issues, including owners who lied about their net worth and missed opportunities to grow the game.

 

[mouser]

It's one part money I think. Quebec could have easily paid the $500 million, NHL wanted Vegas, for obvious reasons. NHL wanted Seattle. I think losing both Arizona and Atlanta stings the league brand a little, where losing consistently with bad ownership in the Southern U.S can lead to relocation.

Atlanta for sure will get a team, once the process is all done. No one has any actual idea though what the league thinks an expansion franchise is worth after $650 million for Seattle. I do get the sense with all the CBA talk that they would like to get this one in before the next CBA.

I can't see the league caving in to Fertitta. The Arizona relocation was the perfect chance to offload the league's least valued commodity, at a bargain price, and it didn't happen. Lowering expansion fees to get a market in essentially would undo what the Coyotes sale accomplished, in terms of franchise valuations.

I’m not at all confident Quebecor could afford the $500m USD. The CAD<>USD exchange rate dropped over 30% between the time the new Quebec arena construction started, expansion was announced, and final expansion teams approved.

Quebecor would have had to borrow the money to pay for an expansion franchise, which was now 40% more expensive ($700m CAD) than when videotron center construction and their NHL expansion plan first began. While at the same time their core business was dealing with the financial fallout of the exchange drop—many of Quebecor’s AP are in USD while their AR is nearly all CAD.

If some other full owner or majority owner stepped up to partner with Quebecor I think QC 2 could have happened. I don’t believe Quebecor (a publicly traded company) could financially justify doing it on their own.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

I don’t believe Quebecor (a publicly traded company) could financially justify doing it on their own.

Truthfully, I think it's likely that Peladeau and Quebecor were using QC expansion as a political cudgel. It's hard to do that when the exchange rate bottoms out like you said, and the bluster stops on a dime.

 

[TheLegend]

I’m not at all confident Quebecor could afford the $500m USD. The CAD<>USD exchange rate dropped over 30% between the time the new Quebec arena construction started, expansion was announced, and final expansion teams approved.

Quebecor would have had to borrow the money to pay for an expansion franchise, which was now 40% more expensive ($700m CAD) than when videotron center construction and their NHL expansion plan first began. While at the same time their core business was dealing with the financial fallout of the exchange drop—many of Quebecor’s AP are in USD while their AR is nearly all CAD.

If some other full owner or majority owner stepped up to partner with Quebecor I think QC 2 could have happened. I don’t believe Quebecor (a publicly traded company) could financially justify doing it on their own.

Everyone's reminder.....

Quebecor wants partners in NHL team bid

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[StreetHawk]

Truthfully, I think it's likely that Peladeau and Quebecor were using QC expansion as a political cudgel. It's hard to do that when the exchange rate bottoms out like you said, and the bluster stops on a dime.

Everyone's reminder.....

Quebecor wants partners in NHL team bid

www.sportsnet.ca

Almost all North American pro teams, the main owner would have partners. So that’s not unusual.

 

[dj4aces]

Almost all North American pro teams, the main owner would have partners. So that’s not unusual.

That's not the issue, though. Not really.

That article is from 2015. This article is from earlier this year: Quebecor is still seeking investors... or partners, or bags of money dropped at their front door. It's been nine years and they really have nothing to show for it.

I'd love to see QC come back to the league. Hell, I'd love to see 'em come back at the same time as Atlanta. But it doesn't seem likely, at least not anytime soon.

 

[StreetHawk]

That's not the issue, though. Not really.

That article is from 2015. This article is from earlier this year: Quebecor is still seeking investors... or partners, or bags of money dropped at their front door. It's been nine years and they really have nothing to show for it.

I'd love to see QC come back to the league. Hell, I'd love to see 'em come back at the same time as Atlanta. But it doesn't seem likely, at least not anytime soon.

Their last best shot was in 2017 along with LV. Now with the cost it’s way out of their range. But clearly the nhl did not want to go to QC. Really wanted Sea and finally were patient enough to wait for their arena to get approval.
I also don’t think Vancouver will get an nba team back.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Quebecor may be looking for partners in the same way that the University of Illinois is looking for a mega donor to entirely finance a new arena and varsity hockey program.

Essentially, they might just be sitting on their butts and hoping that a really rich dude walks by and accidentally drops a nine-figure wad of cash in front of them and doesn't notice.

This is a big boy entity with entrenched connections in the area. If there was a viable partner or partners to make this financially realistic, they would've found one by now.

And to be clear, I want Quebecor and Illinois to prove me wrong.

 

[TheLegend]

Almost all North American pro teams, the main owner would have partners. So that’s not unusual.

Yes.... was just reinforcing the point that Quebecor was never able to get an expansion team on their own.... in spite of what a few people think.

 

[sneakytitz]

Yes.... was just reinforcing the point that Quebecor was never able to get an expansion team on their own.... in spite of what a few people think.

And that is my favorite counterpoint to Canadians on Facebook saying Arizona/Atlanta/Houston shouldn't get another team, etc. We got the money/buyers, where is y'alls?

 

[Mosby]

Seravalli seems to think Arizona could be back in the NHL in 5 years, and that it is a more logical fit than Houston to serve that portion of the American Southwest because of its existing hockey culture and infrastructure.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1841183003822997674

 

[Tawnos]

Seravalli seems to think Arizona could be back in the NHL in 5 years, and that it is a more logical fit than Houston to serve that portion of the American Southwest because of its existing hockey culture and infrastructure.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1841183003822997674

Houston and Phoenix are more than 1,000 miles apart.

 

[Mosby]

Yes, but if you're only going to 34 teams, based on the above it seems Phoenix is the preferred Western addition. Atlanta in the East.

 

[Tawnos]

Yes, but if you're only going to 34 teams, based on the above it seems Phoenix is the preferred Western addition. Atlanta in the East.

They're going to 36. It's just a matter of when.

 

[dj4aces]

Seravalli seems to think Arizona could be back in the NHL in 5 years, and that it is a more logical fit than Houston to serve that portion of the American Southwest because of its existing hockey culture and infrastructure.

I think it's incredibly optimistic for them to expect five years, not unless they have someone on the ground there right now building political alliances so they can either get a barn constructed or fund further renovations of Footprint to make it hockey-friendly.

Arizona, as you said, already has a hockey culture, but I would also say it's hard to ignore Houston, it being the largest market without a NHL franchise. I think the league wants *both* HOU and ARI, but I also think Fertitta's hemming and hawing about the fee is part of what spawned this. Make no mistake, the league will go back to Phoenix, but I think they're being used right now to leverage Fertitta to shut up and pay.

 

[rt]

Seravalli thinks AZ is No.1 on the list - ahead of Houston and ATL

https://x.com/i/web/status/1841183003822997674

 

[Mosby]

They're going to 36. It's just a matter of when.

I tend to agree but who is team 36?

33. Phoenix
34. Atlanta
35. Houston
36. ??? Has to be an Eastern market.

 

[Tawnos]

I think it's incredibly optimistic for them to expect five years, not unless they have someone on the ground there right now building political alliances so they can either get a barn constructed or fund further renovations of Footprint to make it hockey-friendly.

Arizona, as you said, already has a hockey culture, but I would also say it's hard to ignore Houston, it being the largest market without a NHL franchise. I think the league wants *both* HOU and ARI, but I also think Fertitta's hemming and hawing about the fee is part of what spawned this. Make no mistake, the league will go back to Phoenix, but I think they're being used right now to leverage Fertitta to shut up and pay.

I had the same thought. Seravelli isn't above being used as a mouthpiece for the league when it suits them.

While it is optimistic, the team can start playing in Footprint before renovations even start, as long as they're confirmed and official. Same situation as with Utah right now. That probably moves the timeline up a few years.

I tend to agree but who is team 36?

33. Phoenix
34. Atlanta
35. Houston
36. ??? Has to be an Eastern market.

36 doesn't have to be in the east. If it's a western team, Nashville would join the eastern conference. Something I'm sure they're very interested in doing, especially with a potential Atlanta rivalry.

 

[gstommylee]

Seravalli seems to think Arizona could be back in the NHL in 5 years, and that it is a more logical fit than Houston to serve that portion of the American Southwest because of its existing hockey culture and infrastructure.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1841183003822997674

lol and where's the building for said team Frank.

I had the same thought. Seravelli isn't above being used as a mouthpiece for the league when it suits them.

While it is optimistic, the team can start playing in Footprint before renovations even start, as long as they're confirmed and official. Same situation as with Utah right now. That probably moves the timeline up a few years.



36 doesn't have to be in the east. If it's a western team, Nashville would join the eastern conference. Something I'm sure they're very interested in doing, especially with a potential Atlanta rivalry.

Who's gonna pay for that renovation for footprint since its not going to involve government funds.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

He says there will be significant change "in short order." I'm not sure what he defines as significant change, but unless he thinks they will suddenly do something they have not been able to do in 25 or so years (build an arena either downtown/substantially renovate Footprint or build one in the east valley), well, "I'll have whatever he is having."

If his presumption is Desert Diamond is part of the solution, then he would have to explain why it will be different this time. I'm not buying the idea that the league would put a franchise back in that same conditions and expect a different outcome. Especially when they were on the hook for some of the losses until Utah came along.

In a perfect world, I'm sure they would love to have a team in the Phoenix area, Fertitta would pony up at least $1.2B and they'd have a team in Houston, Atlanta would materialize, and they'd find a fourth solid market with somebody sending a check for the expansion fee.

Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world and right now it looks like only one of those things is on the horizon.

 

[gstommylee]

I had the same thought. Seravelli isn't above being used as a mouthpiece for the league when it suits them.

While it is optimistic, the team can start playing in Footprint before renovations even start, as long as they're confirmed and official. Same situation as with Utah right now. That probably moves the timeline up a few years.



36 doesn't have to be in the east. If it's a western team, Nashville would join the eastern conference. Something I'm sure they're very interested in doing, especially with a potential Atlanta rivalry.

Its not going to be Nashville why cause of time zones. Nashville is a central timezone city.

 

[Mosby]

Ok then if team 36 is in the West, who is it? In that same podcast, Frank said he doesn't see Portland or KC as possibilities.

 

[Tawnos]

Its not going to be Nashville why cause of time zones. Nashville is a central timezone city.

The time zone issue was never about crossing over a single time zone.

Ok then if team 36 is in the West, who is it? In that same podcast, Frank said he doesn't see Portland or KC as possibilities.

Maybe you should read this thread and the other one that specifically asks this question. Lots of debate over that exact question with a lot of good info.

Expansion to 36, which city is number 36?

So with the league technically at 33 franchises, and owners liking big expansion fee dollars, it is pretty likely we see expansion at some point in the next few years. On top of that the three biggest metro areas in Canada and the US that don't have an active team are Atlanta, Houston, and...

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