NHL Board of Governors to approve opening of expansion process; Atlanta and Houston believed to be leading candidates

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Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
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Yeah, Auston Matthews became a hockey player because of Phoenix media market.
It is established historical fact that his starting interest in hockey came from watching the Phoenix Coyotes play when he was a kid. That team's existence is directly responsible for his existence as a star hockey player. That is indisputable.
 

ItWasJustified

Registered User
Jan 1, 2015
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It is established historical fact that his starting interest in hockey came from watching the Phoenix Coyotes play when he was a kid. That team's existence is directly responsible for his existence as a star hockey player. That is indisputable.
Sure, the team, not the media market.
 

HockeyScotty

Registered User
Sep 11, 2021
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The expansion fee is a huge chunk of cash for HRR. Bettman is already talking like they want 1.7-2 billion next time around.

It's pretty obvious why they want to keep expanding ... the amount of money it brings in will be enormous just from the expansion fee alone.

No it’s not, expansion fees give zero dollars to HRR, it’s not included.
That’s one of the reasons I said, pool just gets divided between more teams.

That is why the new markets have to increase revenue in an "accretive" manner. Aside from the expansion fee which goes to the NHL and owners; the new team has to contribute more than a 1/32nd amount of the current total HRR.

For simplicity sake it means a new team has to produce over $176 million in annual revenues (in today's money) otherwise the other owners profits are getting diluted.

That means $245.30 per seat for 41 games through net ticket sales, concessions, apparel, media markets, etc.

And that is just the breakeven number; the NHL will want them to INCREASE all of their profit sharing and HRR and so will the NHLPA to support this. Based on 5% annual growth, in 5 years that means it has to be at least $214 million for the next franchise in annual revenues or $300 per seat per game.
 

Salsero1

Registered User
Nov 10, 2022
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As he was part of that media market, he would not have seen the team otherwise. You're attempting to draw a distinction without a significant difference.
It's honestly insulting how they don't just cop to the reality of why they don't want certain markets in the league.
 

ItWasJustified

Registered User
Jan 1, 2015
4,566
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As he was part of that media market, he would not have seen the team otherwise. You're attempting to draw a distinction without a significant difference.
Placing a team somewhere with the ''its a big media market'' argument is dumb.
 

Slats432

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Jun 2, 2002
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The league goes through phases. Expand, watered down a bit, players improve. Because there are 7 Canadian teams there are a bunch of open markets in the US ripe for expansion.

We have 5-7 less US teams than the other leagues. I don't see why people whine so much about this. I like seeing McDavid and Matthews etc put up lots of numbers. Makes the game high scoring and exciting.
 

x Tame Impala

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Aug 24, 2011
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It's honestly insulting how they don't just cop to the reality of why they don't want certain markets in the league.
Well both sides are going to find out one way or the other 5-10 years from now when we see the reality of these major US cities getting teams over Canadian ones. It's no guarantee they're successful. I'd imagine they would be, personally, otherwise people much more capable than myself wouldn't be making 9-figure investments into owning a team.

I understand the Canadian frustration but can't stand the entitlement
 

Shrimper

Trick or ruddy treat
Feb 20, 2010
104,247
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Last two expansions where great, hope this goes the same way but they're at least 5-6 years off for sure.
 

Salsero1

Registered User
Nov 10, 2022
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Well both sides are going to find out one way or the other 5-10 years from now when we see the reality of these major US cities getting teams over Canadian ones. It's no guarantee they're successful. I'd imagine they would be, personally, otherwise people much more capable than myself wouldn't be making 9-figure investments into owning a team.

I understand the Canadian frustration but can't stand the entitlement
There's no reason to believe they won't be successful, as long as their ownership isn't actively sabotaging them. Success in Atlanta won't look the same as Toronto but it would be asinine to expect it to.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
71,141
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Arizona arguably needs a real arena more than it needs a real owner as that's what ultimately killed it. Of course, ownership's handling of negotiations for a replacement arena arguably didn't help. But I imagine that would have to be settled first and foremost. Some new markets get cut a break on that sort of thing if there's a willing owner, but having had so many attempts go bad in that market would probably leave the NHL gun-shy about approval until there's actual plans, cash in hand, and shovels in the ground.
I agree with you as it relates to Arizona. I don't think there is real ownership there at this stage and it still takes years even with them to get this sort of process taken care of. I suspect the more realistic place is San Diego and Kansas City. Then the league would move Chicago to the Eastern Conference.
They should listen to their fans. Any brand should be doing that. Not saying it's an easy thing to feel out, but they should be trying to factor in the opinion of existing fans in their new initiatives.
There's no reason to listen to their fans on this issue in part because fans will be divided on this issue too and they aren't exactly the most informed group on this sort of topic. Besides, the league isn't going to listen to the fans on anything unless there's financial consequences. If there aren't then why shouldn't they feel like the fans support it? They have with Seattle and Vegas. They probably will with Atlanta and Houston. They probably would with places like San Diego or Kansas City without really impacting previous franchises.
 

Nogatco Rd

Did you just call me Coltrane?
Apr 3, 2021
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Too many teams - not enough players. Why can't the league get that through their heads. If Houston or Atlanta want a team they can have the Flames. They're costing Calgary taxpayers way too much and we need to make money from our new arena and recover our investment.
Is this a popular opinion in Calgary?
 

StreetHawk

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
28,124
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Atlanta again? Third time's the charm.
The NHL has maxed out the non nba markets now in the US. It's the big markets remaining without an NHL team that is their focus.

Figure all of the work has already been initiated behind the scenes. They've spoken with the ATL 2 groups plus Fertittia in Hou. No reason to bring this to the BOG without that legwork being done already.

Biggest stumbling block with Houston was TF not willing to pay the price, saying that LV/Sea Expansion price was too high. Well, the price is now over $1 billion. If he's ok to pay that now, then Houston is going to get a team. Only other question is arena. It's ready to go and is 21 years old. So, like the mid 90's ones in STL/PHI/Bos, probably due for a big reno in the coming 5 years.
 

Salsero1

Registered User
Nov 10, 2022
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402
It's based on the anticipated audience size. Again, 90% of 100,000 versus 1% of 10,000,000. The latter is already a larger actual number and has much more room for growth.
Crazy to think that hockey as a game is good enough to attract and maintain the interest of people who don't have congenital frostbite. Next thing you'll tell me that people in North Carolina like it.
 
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