Yes back then the top 4 teams in each division made the playoffs not the top 8 in each conference.
NHL attendance down, everything else up
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Yes back then the top 4 teams in each division made the playoffs not the top 8 in each conference.
Sorry about that yooper made minute changes. Hope it doesn't affect your post too much.
No. Again back in the 1980's the top 4 teams in the divsion made the playoffs. So your team could suck really bad just as long as you sucked a little less then the 5th place team. My point is making the playoffs wasn't that hard to do.
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Gone Hollywood
The Inaugural Thrashers team was one of the worst in the history of the NHL, and they set a record for attendance by an inaugural franchise(since broken by the Wild). It was over 16,000/game.
So they have done that.
Of course, you prove my point. The Thrashers have been the 3rd and 4th worst team in the entire NHL the previous two seasons, it is a big reason why their current attendance is so poor this year.
ColoradoHockeyFan
Registered User
Not to mention the messages from ownership all summer. And not to mention the fact that this all coincided with a WCF appearance for the team they compete with primarily for the shrinking sports entertainment dollar in the city. And not to mention the fact that management was an absolute freak show* this summer. I'm sorry, but when you hire as your new GM the guy who ran the team souvenir shop (who has no hockey knowledge and can't even address hockey-related questions in a press conference, and has to defer them), you become a laughing stock in town. I don't think people realize just how big a butt of jokes this management team became over the summer (on local talk radio, etc.).
*Credit to leek for this label
I don't see how I proved your point per say. The inaugural season is a different story as everyone wants to see the "new" thing in town. I'll give Atlanta credit for that though.
Once again we're paralleling two completely different hockey markets that shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath in regards to fanbase.
You would be hard pressed to find a game Toronto that was below 13000 since opening night at Maple Leaf Gardens in 1931 (Capacity on opening night was ~13000, 1980s and 1990s ~15000-16000).
Meanwhile in Atlanta it really is not a hard thing to do.
Both teams have had some AWFUL periods in team history. Whether the 1980s Leafs or the 2000s Thrashers is worse, its irrelevant. Both were awful. (Compromise is good
)I honestly think we need to adjust the Winter Classic figures for Chicago, in order to get a clear idea of what's happening there. I'd just use the full house for the United Center for that game because using the WC numbers will throw off their average. For the NHL as a whole, you'll see a lag until the next Winter Classic, although venue size will again distort the average slightly.
Thanks for the work.
Hawkscap
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- Jan 22, 2007
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Just fixed it. I used their 40 game average.
The decrease for Chicago is due to them removing a bunch of seats.
Okay, that makes sense. I know they've been filling the barn up otherwise, so something was off.
TaketheCannoli
RIP
Can you explain how you did it originally and what changes you made?
Is the 2008-09 average based on 41 home games for all teams, while the 09-10 figures are season to date?
LadyStanley
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http://hockeyjobs.nhl.com/teamwork/r.cfm?i=26998
Coyotes are hiring. Looking at new position (sounds like a glorified secretary-type position) "Ticket Sales Coordinator".
Sounds like they really want to better do ticket sales.
Coyotes are hiring. Looking at new position (sounds like a glorified secretary-type position) "Ticket Sales Coordinator".
Sounds like they really want to better do ticket sales.
Why doesnt the league impose the same rules on them as they did for the Oilers to make it so the oil werent moved
13 500 STH must be sold by March 13 2010 or the team will be moved
Because of 1 reason: The Lease.
It has to be renegotiated. If they can get a deal on the lease that gives the team at least a chance to make a profit (even if it means going to the WCFs to do it) then that provision wouldn't be a bad one. Otherwise, yes you get butts in the seats (which evidently would make a lot of fans happy...) but you'll still be losing money.
so assuming that they are losing upwqards of $30Million(or even $20Million) per year, will they ever be able to get that much out of a renegotiated lease?
i mean that's basically asking glendale to fork over 20Mill, isn't it?
secondly even with a new ,improved lease, they still have to sell more tix and at higher prices. i for one think that is the real problem.and after this summer's mess , an insurmountable obstacle.
1) This isn't a thread to discuss the lease. I was merely making the point that the Coyotes have problems beyond attendance and the lease is the main reason they cannot just say "We'll stay here if X amount of tickets sell."
2) No your not asking Glendale to cut out $30 million. With Jerry Moyes gone and Gretzky's contract off the books, you are looking to cut maximum $10-15 million off the lease to make the team viable. By "viable" I mean like the other struggling teams. The team will still be in a crappy state of finance but the level of which it will be will be downgraded from "Dire."
RR
Registered User
The $10M-$15M you bring up doesn't necessarily have to come from cuts. A re-worked lease that allows for the creation of new revenue streams with terms more favorable to the team is one approach. Combine that with increasing ticket sales and the gap can be closed.
Not going to be easy, but can be done.
Yeah that's true.
Personally I don't know what to think about the Coyotes situation anymore. That's why a lot of time my posts swing in opposite directions. I was a supporter of Balsillie all summer because Southern Ontario needs another hockey team. At the same time, I've never had anything against the Coyotes and even contemplated buying a jersey a while ago (although I contemplate on buying a lot of jerseys). You don't like to see teams move but then again when the Leafs are selling (Key Word: The tickets are actually selling at this price, not just being put on the market with it) standing room for $40 for a 29th place team, its getting a little ridiculous.
And it continues:
12/08 Van 12545
In this case the old if they're winning isn't working. They are in 2nd place in the Central division and 3 points out 1st place behind Chicago. They averaged 15010 last year and this year 13465. I guess it's time to start hearing about the the Preds ownership buying tickets to make the revenue sharing window.
This market is not supporting a winning franchise and never has. Now please start the excuse machine rolling.
It's not surprising. A couple years ago they were in the same position and weren't selling tickets either. That's why Balsillie targeted Nashville. Leopold had already had discussions with other owners saying that the team was having trouble selling tickets despite its good record and I believe the relocation word was said a couple times. This according to his deposition in the Coyotes court case.
Seth Lake
Registered User
I don't expect anything but an arrogant response, but let me just point out to you that you are comparing the final number for attendance last season against this season's attendance to this date. That is an unfair manipulation of the data and if you in fact look at the numbers at the same point from last season, they are very similar.
In fact, this afternoon it was reported that the paid attendance for the Predators increased from last month and is in fact on a similar course to last season's numbers - which qualified the team for full revenue sharing without any intervention from the owners.
Would we all love to see more butts in the seats every game, sure. But we realize that it is a process and are willing to work within that time frame, while others such as yourself feel the need to bash us without any helpful insight as to how to accelerate the growth of our market and the sport in general.
http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2009/12/9/1193714/nashville-predators-attendance
C77
Registered User
Wow 12,013 in Jersey last night and 11,435 in Colorado. Guess the people are tired of winning teams.
This doesn't bode well for the league at all.
This doesn't bode well for the league at all.
New Jersey is in a weird situation. For them, it's more profitable to sell tickets at a higher price. The owners aren't too worried about attendance figures. I recall that New Jersey is, indeed, doing well in that regard, unlike some teams in the Southern US. Not sure how general revenue is fitting in here (concessions, parking, merchandise...etc.)
Approach to exaplain the attendance situation for the Devils is the NHL team density in the region. They are three "older" teams in the region (Rangers, Flyers, Islanders.) New Jersey State was divided between both the Flyers and the Rangers, before 1982. Being in a tough market and starting off slowly after relocating over from Colorado adds to the troubles.
The evolution of Devils fans is a slow one, because the long-time Flyers or Rangers fans, for example, have a tendency to pass their love for their club from generation to generation.
That's how I understand the situation in New Jersey. Feel free to add or to correct my points!
trueblue9441
Registered User
mentioned this in a different thread, but it also has to do with some pricing points.. typically their 200 level is always full and they do a good job of selling out the lower bowl.. their biggest problem are the balconies which are behind the nets.. the 100's section, they are usually very empty on weeknights.. they need to rethink the pricing points on those seats for both sth and individual games
None Shall Pass
Dano moisturizes
No that's spot on and what I've been screaming in every thread regarding attendance/Devils attendance. We're the youngest team in an area with four.
From my old house in Jersey, I was an hour-90 minutes drive from Philly or NYC.
But our numbers have been growing steadily over the past few years and yes, we're making a profit. As the team gets older (we're something over 20 years now), generations turn over. My family wasn't a hockey family; I picked up the Devils as a kid. And you can bet my kids will be Devils fans too.
That's how a base builds. Maybe in Canada you can throw down a team and sell out all of their games immediately, but there's stiffer sports competition in America, and hockey lags behind. Markets here, for the most part, need to be coddled.
The Devils have been lucky. We've always had great owners, and for the longest time a great GM, and a winning product for years now. I think if you gave Phoenix or Atlanta 20 years with the same luck, they'd be doing better as well. It takes time.
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