- Aug 14, 2011
- 3,785
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NFL draft - QB’s
- Thread starter Rock Paper Sissons
- Start date
Romang67
BitterSwede
In the past 7 years, only the 2022 QB draft class is clearly worse (at draft time, I wouldn't put money on 2025 ending up worse than 2021).
Ward and Sanders are the only guys who will likely go top 10, and they are not at the level of the top guys in 2024, 2023, 2021, 2020, 2019, or 2018.
Allard and Nussmeier are staying in school, so the depth are Milroe, Beck, Ewers and Dart (probably). The depth is relatively fine. Obviously, again, stronger than 2022, but not clearly superior to other drafts, and clearly weaker than 2024, 2023, 2021, 2020.
The Raiders are in a better spot than most other teams though. As long as they don't accidentally win a game, they're picking top 2, which means they'll be able to pick one of the obvious top 2 guys.
I think Sanders should be a starter, but I'm not sure how good he will be at the NFL level. He has very good accuracy, doesn't get skittish in the pocket, and seems to understand the game fairly well. Oddly, despite being the son of a transcendent athlete, his tools are a bit lacking. He doesn't have a particularly strong arm, and he's not very fast.
Ward is a gunslinger with a lot of arm talent. I personally think he's more talented than Sanders, but I do think people are pretty split on it.
I think there is a case to be made that both players are worse than all 6 QBs that were picked in the first round last year. But last year was special.
Ward and Sanders are the only guys who will likely go top 10, and they are not at the level of the top guys in 2024, 2023, 2021, 2020, 2019, or 2018.
Allard and Nussmeier are staying in school, so the depth are Milroe, Beck, Ewers and Dart (probably). The depth is relatively fine. Obviously, again, stronger than 2022, but not clearly superior to other drafts, and clearly weaker than 2024, 2023, 2021, 2020.
The Raiders are in a better spot than most other teams though. As long as they don't accidentally win a game, they're picking top 2, which means they'll be able to pick one of the obvious top 2 guys.
I think Sanders should be a starter, but I'm not sure how good he will be at the NFL level. He has very good accuracy, doesn't get skittish in the pocket, and seems to understand the game fairly well. Oddly, despite being the son of a transcendent athlete, his tools are a bit lacking. He doesn't have a particularly strong arm, and he's not very fast.
Ward is a gunslinger with a lot of arm talent. I personally think he's more talented than Sanders, but I do think people are pretty split on it.
I think there is a case to be made that both players are worse than all 6 QBs that were picked in the first round last year. But last year was special.
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Yep. But Allar was not someone I would have bet to start in the nfl in 2025. Just haven’t seen him really need to use his arm or win a big game. Similar to McCarthy, in that sense but McCarthy was able to lead Michigan to a Natty and make enough plays to win big games while relying heavily on the run game.
I agree that I feel better about Penix and McCarthy and even Nix than I do with sanders and Ward.
I have not delved deep into this class, but the fairly consistent message I'm getting mirrors what Romang has said - weakest since 2022, only two convincing guys and they're arguably not all that convincing anyway.
If you rank where they are vs all of the other guys over the past few seasons:
Burrow, Herbert, Tua - I think based off college, those 3 go ahead of them
Lawrence would go ahead. The rest of that group, I think they could compete with the rest of that group.
Pickett, they would go ahead of him
Young, Stroud, Richardson - hmm... I think it's a coin flip with Richardson. I'd rather take a more expereinced college QB than a 1 and done guy who needs more reps.
Caleb, Daniels, Maye likely all go ahead. The next trio had some questions. McCarthy the production, Penix, the injury history, Nix was his upside (high flow, low ceiling).
Outside of Pickett, they wouldn't be the top QB in any of the other drafts. Outside of the lawrence draft, unlikely to be 2nd either.
- Aug 14, 2011
- 3,785
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@StreetHawk @Romang67
Wow guys I must say I’m quite shocked.
We even think Penix McCarthy and nix above the top two QBs this season?
So ward and sanders are super overrated?
Should raiders wait til 2026 for franchise qb? It’s supposed to be a better class?
Wow guys I must say I’m quite shocked.
We even think Penix McCarthy and nix above the top two QBs this season?
So ward and sanders are super overrated?
Should raiders wait til 2026 for franchise qb? It’s supposed to be a better class?
Romang67
BitterSwede
It's debatable. If Penix, Nix and McCarthy were in this draft, I wouldn't be shocked to see any of them go #1. I'd expect it to be McCarthy or Ward, but I think both Penix and Nix were viewed as more pro ready than either Ward or Sanders.
Waiting for the next year's draft for your QB of the future is seldom a good idea. This draft was supposed to be pretty good, but it was supposed to be so in major part because of Beck and Ewers. They both kind of crashed and burned this year. The best QBs in next year's draft are far from a sure thing, and might not even enter the draft.
It's not like the 2022 draft, which lacked both top end talent and depth. There is every chance that Ward or Sanders becomes a reliable franchise QB. As @StreetHawk said, while there is an argument to be made that they'd be QB7 and QB8 last draft, you could also view them as:
QB4-5 in 2024
QB3-4 in 2023
QB1-2 in 2022
QB2-3 in 2021
Which is plenty good. They are first round talents. First round talents on QB go in the top 10, and nowadays go to the first QB needy team in the draft.
I fully expect the Giants and Raiders to walk away with Ward and Sanders in some order. Unless they miraculously win a game down the stretch.
- Aug 14, 2011
- 3,785
- 958
Amazing. Love this analogy and your in depth explanation on this. Thanks man. I guess you’re right, we should just go for it this year. Ward or sanders is a good option to build around. There will always be top qb options but who knows if they’ll pan out or not.
Maybe sanders and ward both bust or both become stud franchise QBs. And maybe the 2026 class all busts too for QBs. Who knows I guess. Such a crap shoot.
Last time raiders had first overall it was for Jamarcus and he was very hyped and we all know how that turned out…. Ugh
I’d rate Sanders and Ward after the big 3 last year. Then it’s kind of preference between the next trio last year and these 2. These 2 could have gone 4-8 in QBs last season based on their play this season but not based on last season. I’m sure teams like LV, NO, and Seattle would have considered taking a QB had both these guys been as good last season and declared. I doubt that they both go after Nix.
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
- 194,033
- 44,079
Sanders and Ward are comfortably top half first round guys so they’ll both go top 5 or so. Any QB will be a product of his environment no matter what. Both have different skill sets than those other guys. Anyone will fail on the Raiders unless they fix their shit though.
They will go in the top 5. But, like any draft, the top player at a position might not be as good as others in prior drafts. Haven't heard too much about this draft from position players aside from Hunter the CB/WR. There is no Chase or Harrison JR hype for this draft at WR.
This was one of the final drafts for those players who gained an extra year due to Covid for 2020. So, it should be deeper, but the top end, honestly not a major college football follower, but on the Net, I haven't heard any fanbase getting exciting about a possible DE like N. Bosa caliber in the draft.
Romang67
BitterSwede
Two unusually good players this year are Starks and Jeanty, but they are not at desirable positions (S and RB respectively). Hunter is obviously unique, more so than an amazingly good player (he's really good, but I don't think he's the best WR or CB in the draft).
Graham might be a Carter level player when it's all said and done.
DL is the strongest in years. No Bosa/Garrett level player, or even Anderson, but the 2nd tier player stacks up really well on edge and interior.
Thanks. It doesn't sound like the premium positions of DE, OT, CB, WR are as high end as other drafts either.
Romang67
BitterSwede
WR is weak. Much weaker than last year. Maybe comparable to 2023?
OT is either okay (if Campbell and Banks project as tackles) or weak in the top end (if they are guards). Much weaker than last year though. Better than 2022, maybe similar to 2023?
CB is pretty good at the high end with Hunter and Johnson.
DE is also pretty strong. No amazing top-of-the-crop DE1, but I think the 2nd tier prospects, obvious first rounders in any draft but not once-in-a-few-drafts level players make up for it.
DaaaaB's
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2004
- 8,703
- 2,270
They definitely would've went ahead of Nix. Hardly anyone had Nix going in the first round last year and Denver was ridiculed for taking him so high just like Atlanta was picking Penix 8th overall. Most people had those two going early 2nd or someone trading back into the late first to pick them.
Romang67
BitterSwede
RB is obviously the strongest position. The last time a RB had over 1882 yards in a college season was 5 years ago. Jeanty has 1882 yards AFTER CONTACT this season. The next tier of backs after him is also really strong.
On paper, but with QBs they always go higher. LV was rumoured to have tried to move up to grab Penix from all reports. All would have gone round 1, just a matter of which pick and whether the teams holding picks before the teens would opt to trade down and risk the QB getting drafted by LV, NO, SEA who in 2025 may all look to change QBs from their 2024 starter...
With QBs vs other positions, you just can't take the risk of dropping back and then getting jumped by another team. Next best option might be a sizeable drop.
Goalie_Bob
1992 Vezina (2nd)
Rating players on where they would be picked versus another draft is an inappropriate way of looking at the situation. I think it makes more sense by looking at a player as a Top 3, Top 10, Top 16, Late 1st Round, 2nd Round etc talent.
Certain positions obviously skew one way or the other depending on how important they are and the value that teams place on the position.
For Sanders, he is a tough kid who wants to play football and has the desire to be good. But he doesn't have great measurables. 6-2, 215 and he doesn't have great arm strength and he is not an elite athlete. I don't think he is a Top 16 talent but he does have something about him. Recent QBs who are similar: Bo Nix, Kenny Pickett, Brock Purdy, Chad Pennington, Alex Smith, Marc Bulger, Brady Quinn, Sam Bradford, Geno Smith, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold, Tua Tagovailoa.
If he goes into the right situation, then he could maybe be successful. But the Raiders as currently constructed are not that situation. Though with Brady now being involved, should be interesting to see what they do in the offseason and near future.
Cam Ward is Jameis Winston 2.0.
In general, I think this QB class is easily on par with 2022. I'll be interested to see Dane Brugler's final rankings. I could see him rating Ward and Sanders as late first round talents. But because the NFL is so QB centric, teams will overdraft them. And they probably should.
Every other QB probably goes 3rd+ round. Just a whole bunch of meh.
Certain positions obviously skew one way or the other depending on how important they are and the value that teams place on the position.
For Sanders, he is a tough kid who wants to play football and has the desire to be good. But he doesn't have great measurables. 6-2, 215 and he doesn't have great arm strength and he is not an elite athlete. I don't think he is a Top 16 talent but he does have something about him. Recent QBs who are similar: Bo Nix, Kenny Pickett, Brock Purdy, Chad Pennington, Alex Smith, Marc Bulger, Brady Quinn, Sam Bradford, Geno Smith, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold, Tua Tagovailoa.
If he goes into the right situation, then he could maybe be successful. But the Raiders as currently constructed are not that situation. Though with Brady now being involved, should be interesting to see what they do in the offseason and near future.
Cam Ward is Jameis Winston 2.0.
In general, I think this QB class is easily on par with 2022. I'll be interested to see Dane Brugler's final rankings. I could see him rating Ward and Sanders as late first round talents. But because the NFL is so QB centric, teams will overdraft them. And they probably should.
Every other QB probably goes 3rd+ round. Just a whole bunch of meh.
Raiders have a bunch of holes. And wow, last night their Special Teams coach just got embarrassed with 4 big time negative plays.
As for Brady's impact, Raiders need an OC. Just drafting a QB isn't going to make that guy good.
- Aug 14, 2011
- 3,785
- 958
This is kind of what I am hoping for. Rumours are that Brady will be heavily involved so I’m hoping he is finally able to fix things in Vegas unlike captain Davis…. Smh
Realistically what connections does Brady have for executives & management or coaches? The NE people he was with are nothing without BB. In TB Arians is retired and no clue where Leftwich who was once a HC candidate but haven’t heard his name over the past 2 cycles.
Yes he can help do a deep dive into QB both physically and mentally. But as for hiring the decision makers?
No guarantee any QB will get a great OL. Mahomes has bad OT. Russ, for much of his post rookie deal has had sub standard OL. Dak in recent years.
So, actually good to see how a QB functions with average OL play. Better than being behind a great OL and then once you get to a weaker one, you can't function at all because you are really only used to good OL play.
buffalowing88
Registered User
Rating players on where they would be picked versus another draft is an inappropriate way of looking at the situation. I think it makes more sense by looking at a player as a Top 3, Top 10, Top 16, Late 1st Round, 2nd Round etc talent.
Certain positions obviously skew one way or the other depending on how important they are and the value that teams place on the position.
For Sanders, he is a tough kid who wants to play football and has the desire to be good. But he doesn't have great measurables. 6-2, 215 and he doesn't have great arm strength and he is not an elite athlete. I don't think he is a Top 16 talent but he does have something about him. Recent QBs who are similar: Bo Nix, Kenny Pickett, Brock Purdy, Chad Pennington, Alex Smith, Marc Bulger, Brady Quinn, Sam Bradford, Geno Smith, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold, Tua Tagovailoa.
If he goes into the right situation, then he could maybe be successful. But the Raiders as currently constructed are not that situation. Though with Brady now being involved, should be interesting to see what they do in the offseason and near future.
Cam Ward is Jameis Winston 2.0.
In general, I think this QB class is easily on par with 2022. I'll be interested to see Dane Brugler's final rankings. I could see him rating Ward and Sanders as late first round talents. But because the NFL is so QB centric, teams will overdraft them. And they probably should.
Every other QB probably goes 3rd+ round. Just a whole bunch of meh.
I really like the Bradford comp for Sanders. That feels very close to the profile we should expect in terms of capability with Shedeur. Bradford was a pretty solid QB when healthy. His efficiency was his biggest strength, something I would say the same holds true with for Sanders.
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