Next Nations to join IIHF?

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I'm rather skeptical when it comes to any developing country of the global south making significant inroads in ice hockey, that doesn't only go for the Philippines. But of course there's no reason why they couldn't compete as equals with other South East Asian countries.
I was actually impressed by the number of new young players they have this year compared to 2019 which was the last time they competed in an international tournament because of the Covid lockdown. Many of the veteran pioneers have retired and the youth players replacing them were bigger, better and faster including an 18 y.o. player named Kendrick Sze I was particularly impressed with who has both the size at 6'1 and speed as well as skills to compete and dominate at this level. We usually lose players of that size to basketball but apparently he decided to keep on playing ice hockey instead.
 
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I'm rather skeptical when it comes to any developing country of the global south making significant inroads in ice hockey, that doesn't only go for the Philippines. But of course there's no reason why they couldn't compete as equals with other South East Asian countries.
Many of the ASEAN countries including Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines where ice hockey is being introduced btw are now classified as middle income newly industrialized countries and are labeled Tiger Cubs economically because of their rapid growth. The Philippines for one is projected to have the 4th largest economy in Asia and 19th largest economy in the world by 2050 overtaking and surpassing many countries in Europe and the Americas. This should allow them to invest more in sports programs like ice hockey so that they can be more competitive internationally.
 
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Greece,Montenegro,North Macedonia,Portugal,Azerbaijan,Armenia,Argentina,Brazil not in the IIHF seems a bit starange
 
I'm rather skeptical when it comes to any developing country of the global south making significant inroads in ice hockey, that doesn't only go for the Philippines. But of course there's no reason why they couldn't compete as equals with other South East Asian countries.
In preparation for the World Ice Hockey Championships the Philippine Ice Hockey National team also competed(as the Philippine Eagles) in the Invitational Lions City Cup in Singapore a month earlier where they competed in the highest division the International Elite Division against clubs from other countries. They finished third to Champion club Vivaster (entirely Russian team) and Mantis Storm which consist of players from Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong and Canada and ahead of other clubs consisting of expatriates from different countries.

Here is the roster for Vivaster:

 
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It's quite common for all of the teams from the SE Asian region to have very young rosters and most native-born players then quit hockey when realities of adult life take over, being able to provide a viable path playing competitively deeper into adulthood would be one factor that could quickly elevate a team above others.

Regarding club play, Mongolia might have an intriguing guy coming in next year in Batu Gendunov, he's trained in Canadian Junior A hockey which is not common for Mongolians, and also spent several years in the MHL in Russia. This season in Mongolia he has played 8 games scoring 29 goals and 51 points. And he's a 6'6" 225 defenseman.
 
To me, as someone very familiar with nations few steps above but still plagued with the same problems (not enough professional players, a massive number of potential NT players "lost to adulthood", etc.), cjeagle sounds like someone who has so much enthusiasm but is before the stage where any kind of reality sets in.

"they do commit to train regularly during their free time usually in the late evening for months at a time to prepare for the tournament", "They train almost every day before the tournament for months at a time", "they have physiotherapists and dietitians monitoring their training when they are also not on the ice" - this all sounds so rosy. As someone who has seen this situation from very close with players who, with all due respect to Philippinos, could have competed at a much higher level, I would be shocked if 1) this all applied to more than a few hardcore guys; 2) if it did apply to a larger group I doubt many will follow through with any kind of commitment rather than it being "once in a lifetime" event.

And it applies to pretty much every country below the D1A (the real one, not the current one). If you don't have a professional league and/or core (at least) of players playing professionally, you aren't going to have a group of 30 men over the age of 25 to whom hockey will be a priority. In the world of family, job, business, travel, etc. it will just never be the case. And it subsequently makes any progress of the national program so much tougher.
The Philippines for one is projected to have the 4th largest economy in Asia and 19th largest economy in the world by 2050 overtaking and surpassing many countries in Europe and the Americas. This should allow them to invest more in sports programs like ice hockey so that they can be more competitive internationally.
As is the case with any number of countries in the world, the main question is not "if they can do that" but "why would they do that?". Most countries aren't interested in hockey not because it's expensive but because they see no reason to be. The same applies to the Philippines. If they decided to invest more in sports, why would it be hockey and not any number of other, much more sensible options?
 
Greece,Montenegro,North Macedonia,Portugal,Azerbaijan,Armenia,Argentina,Brazil not in the IIHF seems a bit starange

Greece: hasn't played since 2013, the local winter sports federation doesn't seem to mention hockey that much. I guess the lack of adequate facilities is still the big problem there.

Montenegro: not an IIHF member. Not sure hockey is practised there at all

North Macedonia: won the 2018 Development Cup but nothing since. Low number of licensed players. Only a single outdoor rink in the country.

Portugal: has played all 3 Development Cup events so far. Low number of licensed players. One tiny rink 300km NE of Lisbon.

Azerbaijan: apparently no player or rink in the country. Federation based in .... Moscow (IIHF Member National Association Azerbaijan)

Armenia: Played WC in 2004-2006, 2008 and 2010. Got suspended twice for lining up non eligible players. Has a small pool of players. Has a couple of indoor rinks.

Argentina: is a regular feature at the Panamerican tournament and then at the Amerigol Latam Cup. Remember reading somewhere there were 2 federations, making everything messy there, but not sure. Don't think they have proper facilities beyond the outdoor rinks in Ushuaia.

Brazil: is a regular feature at the Panamerican tournament and then at the Amerigol Latam Cup. Low number of licensed players. One tiny rink.
 
To me, as someone very familiar with nations few steps above but still plagued with the same problems (not enough professional players, a massive number of potential NT players "lost to adulthood", etc.), cjeagle sounds like someone who has so much enthusiasm but is before the stage where any kind of reality sets in.

"they do commit to train regularly during their free time usually in the late evening for months at a time to prepare for the tournament", "They train almost every day before the tournament for months at a time", "they have physiotherapists and dietitians monitoring their training when they are also not on the ice" - this all sounds so rosy. As someone who has seen this situation from very close with players who, with all due respect to Philippinos, could have competed at a much higher level, I would be shocked if 1) this all applied to more than a few hardcore guys; 2) if it did apply to a larger group I doubt many will follow through with any kind of commitment rather than it being "once in a lifetime" event.

And it applies to pretty much every country below the D1A (the real one, not the current one). If you don't have a professional league and/or core (at least) of players playing professionally, you aren't going to have a group of 30 men over the age of 25 to whom hockey will be a priority. In the world of family, job, business, travel, etc. it will just never be the case. And it subsequently makes any progress of the national program so much tougher.

As is the case with any number of countries in the world, the main question is not "if they can do that" but "why would they do that?". Most countries aren't interested in hockey not because it's expensive but because they see no reason to be. The same applies to the Philippines. If they decided to invest more in sports, why would it be hockey and not any number of other, much more sensible options?
I think I am being realistic.

As I mentioned before in another post "Their lack of a professional league will always handicap them compared to many of these other countries but that is okay. The important thing is they do their best with the cards they are dealt with and continue developing so they can reach the levels someday that similar warm weather countries like Thailand and Chinese Taipei that are currently in higher divisions have reached in ice hockey."

As some of the leaders of their federation have said. In lieu of a professional league in the country not yet being feasible their goal in developing some of their young players who want to make playing hockey as a career is to help them reach their goals of playing professionally by sending them to North America which some of them have done already.
 
Thailand and even Taiwan haven't really got where they are through domestic development but through the utilization of foreign-trained talent. For example Thailand has a couple of players from the elite juniors in Sweden, even though they never made it to pro hockey that's still a lot of levels above anything that is possible in South East Asia. Much like Füglister in the Philippines.
 
Thailand and even Taiwan haven't really got where they are through domestic development but through the utilization of foreign-trained talent. For example Thailand has a couple of players from the elite juniors in Sweden, even though they never made it to pro hockey that's still a lot of levels above anything that is possible in South East Asia. Much like Füglister in the Philippines.

The Philippines has plenty of ties to North America which they can utilize as a pipeline to send their best youth players abroad to even if it is only at the junior hockey or college level so I don't see any reason why they can't match Thailand or Taiwan eventually.
 
The Philippines has plenty of ties to North America which they can utilize as a pipeline to send their best youth players abroad to even if it is only at the junior hockey or college level so I don't see any reason why they can't match Thailand or Taiwan eventually.
I can't see any of these countries ever producing talent for elite juniors in Europe. If Thailand's Isaksson or Aarola or Kindborn or Forstner didn't grow up in Europe playing with future pros from an early age they likely wouldn't be any better than their other players and a college opportunity abroad or alike wouldn't really change that much. When you manage to bring in even lesser players from top junior levels of developed hockey countries it's a big advantage at the lowest levels of international hockey. Just like the Philippines have seen with Füglister.
 
I can't see any of these countries ever producing talent for elite juniors in Europe. If Thailand's Isaksson or Aarola or Kindborn or Forstner didn't grow up in Europe playing with future pros from an early age they likely wouldn't be any better than their other players and a college opportunity abroad or alike wouldn't really change that much. When you manage to bring in even lesser players from top junior levels of developed hockey countries it's a big advantage at the lowest levels of international hockey. Just like the Philippines have seen with Füglister.
The Philippines have several players with experience playing junior or college hockey in North America including their newly installed captain and player Marvel Billones who played junior hockey in Philadelphia and varsity college at West Chester University in the US. College Hockey in the US is an alternate pipeline to Major Junior Hockey Leagues in Canada when trying to make the NHL. Billones secured first place in the scoring race in the WIHC Div IV with 12 (5+7) points.

Among the individual achievements, the Philippines unsurprisingly dominated the scoring chart in this year's tournament. The top five scorers – Billones, Sze, Fuglister, Montano and Jan Aro Regencia – all represented the gold medallist, while Sibug’s four-point haul from the blue line made him the top scorer among defenders. Sze and Regencia are local products while Billones, Montano and Sibug are North American trained players.

As you mentioned, Tigaronita also plays junior hockey in the US and Crisostomo goes to college in Canada. Both learned their hockey in the Philippines before moving on to North America.

Of course the really good NHL prospects and NHL players who could conceivably play for the Philippines including Dallas defenceman Matt Dumba and the Robertson brothers in Toronto and Dallas could never fulfill the 2 year residency requirement in the middle of their career that the IIHF requires for a player to be eligible to play for the Philippines internationally but just like Billones there are others just below that level that might be able to.
 
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Sure, if you can bring in players even just with ACHA D1 hockey experience then they will likely be doing very well against domestic talent. But there are still many levels between that and the academies of Kloten or Luleå.

Iran survived Div IIIB with a relatively nicely balanced largely domestic-produced team and it's nice to see that, but at the same time it's clear they're not going to achieve a major leap forward at the World Championships any time soon that way. Whether it's more of a good or a bad thing is a matter of perspective.
 
Sure, if you can bring in players even just with ACHA D1 hockey experience then they will likely be doing very well against domestic talent. But there are still many levels between that and the academies of Kloten or Luleå.

Iran survived Div IIIB with a relatively nicely balanced largely domestic-produced team and it's nice to see that, but at the same time it's clear they're not going to achieve a major leap forward at the World Championships any time soon that way. Whether it's more of a good or a bad thing is a matter of perspective.
Actually many of the top NHL draft picks are US NCAA Div I college products which are on par with or better than many of Sweden's top junior prospects. I am making that statement despite the fact that I am a fan of the Redwings which has one of the largest number of Swedish top drafted players and prospects in the NHL.

There are millions of Filipinos who live in North America so I expect some of them who excel playing ice hockey at either junior or college level becoming viable prospects for the Philippines eventually.
 
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Actually many of the top NHL draft picks are US NCAA Div I college products which are on par with or better than many of Sweden's top junior prospects. I am making that statement despite the fact that I am a fan of the Redwings which has one of the largest number of Swedish top drafted players and prospects in the NHL.

There are millions of Filipinos who live in North America so I expect some of them who excel playing ice hockey at either junior or college level becoming viable prospects for the Philippines eventually.

Yeah, but NCAA D1 is a lot higher level than ACHA D1 which is a decent varsity competition in itself but hardly a path to pro hockey. It's like a tier below NCAA D3.
 
Argentina: is a regular feature at the Panamerican tournament and then at the Amerigol Latam Cup. Remember reading somewhere there were 2 federations, making everything messy there, but not sure. Don't think they have proper facilities beyond the outdoor rinks in Ushuaia.

Brazil: is a regular feature at the Panamerican tournament and then at the Amerigol Latam Cup. Low number of licensed players. One tiny rink.
Brazil and Argentina were part of the wave of countries that caught the inline hockey wave., and as some may have forgotten, the IIHF had been holding world championships for inline until 2017. Brazil had an 8th place finish in 2011.

So inasmuch as the primary thrust of the federation is ice hockey, Brazil, Argentina and others were attracted by the inline game. There hasn't been a lot of interest in the ice version of the game in South America.
 
Yeah, but NCAA D1 is a lot higher level than ACHA D1 which is a decent varsity competition in itself but hardly a path to pro hockey. It's like a tier below NCAA D3.

The Philippines did defeat Thailand(currently in Div IIIA) for Gold in the 2017 SEA Games so their team could conceivably reach Div IIIA if not next year maybe in future editions of the World Ice Hockey Championship if they continue to improve their team.
 
They did, and lost 10:1 the last time around as tournament hosts. The quality of these rosters can vary wildly from one tournament to another, it's not like Thailand would have created much of a domestic hockey program either beyond their slightly better imports. In 2017 they even had the very same coach as the Philippines employ now.
 
They did, and lost 10:1 the last time around as tournament hosts. The quality of these rosters can vary wildly from one tournament to another, it's not like Thailand would have created much of a domestic hockey program either beyond their slightly better imports. In 2017 they even had the very same coach as the Philippines employ now.
Perhaps Jeffrey Fuglister could join his brother Steven in Manila when he retires from pro hockey in a few years so he can establish residence and play for the Philippines. Elite Prospects already has him listed as a dual citizen so he must have his passport already.

They had a Japanese coach during the 2019 SEA Games(as opposed to the Czech coach in 2017) whose system apparently didn't fit the team that well so they got rid of him. Their current Finnish coach(Thailand's former coach) is doing a better job.

There are also a lot of new additions this time around.
 
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At non-IIHF events you can also include dual citizens that have never played or even lived in the country. Like Thailand's Aarola only recently moved to the country and can play at the IIHF World Championships only from soon on despite representing Thailand at other events since 2011 and even coaching their junior teams at IIHF ones.
 
Jeffrey Fuglister is very unlikely to ever play for Philippines NT as he already played a couple of IIHF junior tournaments for Switzerland so the 4 year rule would have to be applied there.
 
After retirement it's pretty easy to fulfill even the 4-year requirement if the interest is there though.
 
Jeffrey Fuglister is very unlikely to ever play for Philippines NT as he already played a couple of IIHF junior tournaments for Switzerland so the 4 year rule would have to be applied there.
Albatros mentioned on the Philippine Ice Hockey Thread that he could fulfill the exception despite playing for Switzerland at the junior level.
 
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I know it's possible and even in his 40s he would still be more than able to handle the level but as you said he has to be interested to do it. I just would welcome him more as a nice addition to the team if it happens than hoping that he may make the move like his brother and thinking he is the answer to improve the team. The great work done with local youth is way more important than whatever he can bring as a player as it wouldn't necessarily reflect the team's true level.
 
Brazil and Argentina were part of the wave of countries that caught the inline hockey wave., and as some may have forgotten, the IIHF had been holding world championships for inline until 2017. Brazil had an 8th place finish in 2011.

So inasmuch as the primary thrust of the federation is ice hockey, Brazil, Argentina and others were attracted by the inline game. There hasn't been a lot of interest in the ice version of the game in South America.

I know but 25 years have passed and things have changed. The IIHF hasn't organised an inline hockey WC in 6 years. The Panamerican tournament and the Latam Cup have given a bit of a push to ice hockey in Latin America. And now Colombia who joined the IIHF in 2019 has played and won both the Men's and Women's Development Cup last year. So I would imagine Argentina and Brazil and why not Chile may want to get more involved on the ice.
 

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