New York City Thread: Part IV (Info in OP)

TopShelfSnipes

Snipes Like Tarasenkoooo
May 5, 2011
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USA
As a European who has gotten used to the lack of public transportation and the horrible quality of the same in this country I could agree more with you.

Investing in this sort of infrastructure could alleviate so many problems, from creating jobs to relieving city congestions. There are so many positive things that rail and bus lines can contribute to this economy. It honestly baffles my mind.

I used to commute to my neighboring town via train. None of the hassle with gas prices or worrying about road conditions or in some cases that your car is even road ready.

I hope I will live to see the day where the US becomes serious about rail.
Public transportation is one of the most miserable customer experiences in America, and I don't see how expanding access to it is going to do anything to make it better until the fundamental service delivery and quality of life/experience issues are addressed.

Europe has a completely different mindset about public transit, which is why people there take it. The fact is, any one with any decent standard of living for themselves does not want to wait around in a station that smells like urine for 5-20 minutes inhaling steel dust particles, surrounded by aggressive homeless people, waiting for a train to show up where there's a good chance to be feces laying around, that probably isn't going to directly take you where you need to go without the need to transfer 3 more times, and - if you live in an outer borough - take a bus, which is by far THE worst public transportation experiencein America - the rest of the way.

I sympathize with anyone who'd rather keep their car and just Park 'N Ride for a direct commuter ride into NYC Penn to go to the game. At least those trains are cleaner and less crime-ridden.
 

IamNotADancer

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Feb 16, 2017
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Can you give an example in the us for a connection you think is missing? At least in NY there are several different commuter railSystems connecting most small towns in the area. That's probably better than in the west but you need to change the attitudes of people there before you can invest in real. Even my dad... Once he got a car he drove everywhere he could ... He refused to take public transportation anywhere.

One example? All of Western PA. Outside of Pittsburgh and to an extent Erie there are no significant connections.

There are tons of rural areas which would benefit from a rail hub nearby. If you are someone living in let's say Titusville, which is right in the middle between Erie and Pittsburgh and for whatever reason you want to travel out east or even to an airport your options are very slim unless you have a car. You will always be reliant on a friend, family member or friendly neighbor to go to places outside of your 10 mile radius.

What I am advocating for is to connect more smaller towns with bigger cities via rail. Especially when said towns already have the existing infrastructure that simply needs some minor improvements in order to support a regional rail system.

Don't get hung up on Amtrak servicing big metropolitan areas. You can travel east to west with connections no problem. Pricing is a different issue that I'm not even going get into. Ideally, to emulate the system in Europe, you would see connections and railways in between all those major hub and off the beaten path.

I completely agree with you that it's an attitude issue, in as people don't think public transportation is a viable option in this country.

I'm not completely delusional to think that we will ever have a German, French style transportation system. But I can't help but feel reminded of it every time I want to travel to New York.

I used to live in Germany and all I literally had to do was walk to the train station in my small town and pay for the tickets and I would be able to ride from close to the Dutch border to Berlin without ever having to call a cab or get in a car in between.
 

IamNotADancer

Registered User
Feb 16, 2017
2,461
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Public transportation is one of the most miserable customer experiences in America, and I don't see how expanding access to it is going to do anything to make it better until the fundamental service delivery and quality of life/experience issues are addressed.

Europe has a completely different mindset about public transit, which is why people there take it. The fact is, any one with any decent standard of living for themselves does not want to wait around in a station that smells like urine for 5-20 minutes inhaling steel dust particles, surrounded by aggressive homeless people, waiting for a train to show up where there's a good chance to be feces laying around, that probably isn't going to directly take you where you need to go without the need to transfer 3 more times, and - if you live in an outer borough - take a bus, which is by far THE worst public transportation experiencein America - the rest of the way.

I sympathize with anyone who'd rather keep their car and just Park 'N Ride for a direct commuter ride into NYC Penn to go to the game. At least those trains are cleaner and less crime-ridden.

All valid points which is why I think that it will never happen. I can still dream though.

As for commuting into NYC, yeah I'm taking my wife and 14 year old with me. In Europe this wouldve have been an exciting trip for them since they find train rides and bus rides fun. There is no fear of a random dude squatting in a corner who then slings feces at you. Over here I find it much safer to travel in the confines of your own car.
 

TopShelfSnipes

Snipes Like Tarasenkoooo
May 5, 2011
1,128
1,835
USA
One example? All of Western PA. Outside of Pittsburgh and to an extent Erie there are no significant connections.

There are tons of rural areas which would benefit from a rail hub nearby. If you are someone living in let's say Titusville, which is right in the middle between Erie and Pittsburgh and for whatever reason you want to travel out east or even to an airport your options are very slim unless you have a car. You will always be reliant on a friend, family member or friendly neighbor to go to places outside of your 10 mile radius.

What I am advocating for is to connect more smaller towns with bigger cities via rail. Especially when said towns already have the existing infrastructure that simply needs some minor improvements in order to support a regional rail system.

Don't get hung up on Amtrak servicing big metropolitan areas. You can travel east to west with connections no problem. Pricing is a different issue that I'm not even going get into. Ideally, to emulate the system in Europe, you would see connections and railways in between all those major hub and off the beaten path.

I completely agree with you that it's an attitude issue, in as people don't think public transportation is a viable option in this country.

I'm not completely delusional to think that we will ever have a German, French style transportation system. But I can't help but feel reminded of it every time I want to travel to New York.

I used to live in Germany and all I literally had to do was walk to the train station in my small town and pay for the tickets and I would be able to ride from close to the Dutch border to Berlin without ever having to call a cab or get in a car in between.
The problem with this is that for all of Europe's rumored "progressivism," Europe actually adheres very strictly to zoning codes. The city is the city, and what's not the city is rural. Variances, etc. don't happen in Europe because they understand that land is a finite quantity, and that what's urbanized is gone forever as unadulterated land.

Most people who live in rural areas (and I have lived in rural, suburban and urban areas in my lifetime) want to preserve their open spaces and way of life, and most prefer driving (driving is actually quite enjoyable when you get away from urban traffic). Public transportation, in addition to being a miserable user experience, has also been used as a Trojan horse to force these areas that just want to be left alone to "develop" in keeping with urban values. Right now you have one major political party that is constantly trying to promote "transit oriented development" and even in some areas (NY state in particular) floating the idea of Albany bureaucrats being able to override the will of local governments to preserve their zoning laws to force multifamily and higher density development in areas that don't want it, and their argument is going to hinge on the availability of public transit in these areas (at least as first).

Couple this with the crime and low quality of life / user experience with public transit, and it is no surprise that people who have worked hard, saved money, and invested in living in a community far away from this type of dystopian development do not want to allow the addition of fixed rail networks in their backyards when they know that these will export the overdevelopment of the city, and possibly even the city's socioeconomic problems, right in their backyard...drawing them back towards a negative lived experience that many of them worked hard and spent a lot of money to avoid. THAT is why people in America are overwhelmingly so fundamentally opposed to mass transit outside of the major cities.

Contrast that to Europe, which understands the city is the city, and rural areas are rural areas, and which does not tolerate antisocial behavior and vagrancy on the transit system. It's no wonder then, that people over there don't oppose transit projects, because they are an add to their quality of life. It doesn't bring crime, filth, and development against their wishes right into their backyard. They build lines to meet demand, whereas America builds lines to meet demand, then builds development around the new line to exceed demand and make everyone who lived there hate it and move, rinse repeat. Meanwhile, the people who've been crowded out from overdeveloped city centers move in to replace them, thinking they've discovered "the suburbs" while a continuous cycle of outmigration to further and further areas from cities consistently takes place that results in the near suburbs ultimately looking like a microcosm of the city they surround, the far suburbs resembling suburbs, and so on. And the congestion is unbelievable, so public transit becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that results in people enduring unreasonably long commutes that far exceed those in Europe, but are used as definitive proof of public transit's efficacy in America as urbanists clamor for ever more development even though 99% of the people riding the public transit actually wish they didn't have to.

The type of development we are seeing in America isn't European at all, in fact, it more closely resembles India and left unchecked, that is what large cities will come to look like if someone doesn't take the toys away from the urbanists at the kid's table who are driving this. 100 years ago, large parts of the outer boroughs were rural. New York City had full blown farms. Now they look just as crowded as midtown Manhattan used to. 40 years ago, Nassau County was a bucolic suburb with plenty of room for one to spread their wings; now much of the county is indistinguishable from Queens Blvd. Parts of Yonkers might as well be the 6th borough.

There is a reason there has been a huge outmigration from cities in America the past few years, and it's not solely because of COVID, but it's also because people don't want the socioeconomic and land use problems they chose to leave behind to follow them to where they are now, and hybrid / work from home arrangements are making it possible for people to live where they actually want to live, while engaging in the type of work that is meaningful to them, and avoiding a miserable, soul-sucking commute while still getting the same amount of work done, which means more time for them to spend with their families and others who matter to them, and less time sitting idly on a train waiting for the ride to be over.
 
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Omark

Tesla stock
Aug 5, 2011
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Espoo, Finland
Wow, wall street bull statue didn't even make the list in opening post, NYC is just too stacked with everything. It blows my mind that some people just casually walk there as residents, just minding their business. Just another day in life..
 

sbjnyc

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
6,124
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New York
Wow, wall street bull statue didn't even make the list in opening post, NYC is just too stacked with everything. It blows my mind that some people just casually walk there as residents, just minding their business. Just another day in life..
I used to work near there. When I played pokemon go I'd leave the office for 15 minutes to do raids at the gym there. There's also a real gym right there which I went to less often. :)
 
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Chaels Arms

Formerly Lias Andersson
Aug 26, 2010
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New York City
Wow, wall street bull statue didn't even make the list in opening post, NYC is just too stacked with everything. It blows my mind that some people just casually walk there as residents, just minding their business. Just another day in life..
It's really not that impressive lol. It's a statue of a bull in the middle of a busy street. Your town could build the same thing in two days if it really wanted to.
 
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sbjnyc

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Jun 28, 2011
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It's really not that impressive lol. It's a statue of a bull in the middle of a busy street. Your town could build the same thing in two days if it really wanted to.
There's one in rotterdam (maybe amsterdam?) but it doesn't have fearless girl. And its not in the middle of a busy street its in a small park between 2 busy streets.
 

IamNotADancer

Registered User
Feb 16, 2017
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Did they close down the NHL store? Tried to find it last night and kept running in circles. The one place that I thought for sure used to be the NHL store was empty and had work being done on the inside.

If they moved it Google isn't very helpful at helping me find the new location
 

East Coast Bias

Registered User
Feb 28, 2014
8,362
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NYC
Did they close down the NHL store? Tried to find it last night and kept running in circles. The one place that I thought for sure used to be the NHL store was empty and had work being done on the inside.

If they moved it Google isn't very helpful at helping me find the new location

Not sure where you were. It’s not in midtown anymore. It’s in Manhattan West building on 9th towards Hudson yards.
 

IamNotADancer

Registered User
Feb 16, 2017
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Not sure where you were. It’s not in midtown anymore. It’s in Manhattan West building on 9th towards Hudson yards.

BTW, is that the one with the big Peloton signs out front? If yes I walked past it 3 times lol

Edit: never mind, I did end up finding it. It's not as obvious as the one they used to have in midtown but thanks to your help I did manage to do my souvenir run. Thanks again!
 
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East Coast Bias

Registered User
Feb 28, 2014
8,362
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NYC
BTW, is that the one with the big Peloton signs out front? If yes I walked past it 3 times lol

Edit: never mind, I did end up finding it. It's not as obvious as the one they used to have in midtown but thanks to your help I did manage to do my souvenir run. Thanks again!

glad to hear it. Nice day for a walk to the west side. Can’t beat this weather.
 
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Omark

Tesla stock
Aug 5, 2011
200
202
Espoo, Finland
It's really not that impressive lol. It's a statue of a bull in the middle of a busy street. Your town could build the same thing in two days if it really wanted to.
Lol my town could build Eiffel tower as well but it wouldn't be the same (sorry Vegas).

If I saw the wall street bull statue in real life, I would literally cry.
 

Crease

Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
Jul 12, 2004
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Anyone play adult hockey in Westchester? Looking to join a team for the next upcoming season. A or B Division ideally.
 

WhereO Is Kakko

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Mar 24, 2022
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Lol my town could build Eiffel tower as well but it wouldn't be the same (sorry Vegas).

If I saw the wall street bull statue in real life, I would literally cry.
You’d be crying - literally - because of the crowds :)

I happened to be down there a week ago Monday trying to remember where my Drs office was. Couldn’t believe the number of tourists lined up waiting to get a pic of either end.

(Imagine the conversation: “Honey, kids, there’s too many people at the head. Let’s go around where there are fewer people and maybe get you all to pose with its balls.”)

I suppose if your tour couldn’t get you into the Exchange, the Bull would be a close second. Lol.
 
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Allan92

Registered User
Jan 2, 2016
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Meath
Hey🙂

Can anyone please advise what's good around the city for a pair of 30 year olds in NYC midweek (a Tuesday and Wednesday in June) in relation to nightlife?

We wouldn't be club goers but would like late bars, bars with dancefloors, even cocktail bars are good

We are staying in Manhattan but any of the 5 boroughs would be ok

We leave on the Thursday to head upstate for an event, so if anyone can recommend somewhere in Syracuse, that would also be awesome
 

RosensRug

Registered User
Oct 1, 2020
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378
Hey🙂

Can anyone please advise what's good around the city for a pair of 30 year olds in NYC midweek (a Tuesday and Wednesday in June) in relation to nightlife?

We wouldn't be club goers but would like late bars, bars with dancefloors, even cocktail bars are good

We are staying in Manhattan but any of the 5 boroughs would be ok

We leave on the Thursday to head upstate for an event, so if anyone can recommend somewhere in Syracuse, that would also be awesome
Where are you staying? Beauty bar and Bob bar on the LES are always fun times.
 

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