NEW: Sharks Trade Deadline Predictions

[gaucholoco3]

What are you talking about? You mean quality vets that can score 30+ goals? Toffoli is also 5 years older.

Exactly what makes having many Toffoli's or Boeser's a bad thing?

Not to mention, you feel Boeser is a poor man's toffoli? like he's a worse player? You think?

Toffoli might be the slowest player in the league and does not provide any value outside of scoring goals (which is very important). He needs 2 play drivers on his line to succeed. If you have too many Toffoli like players it puts too much pressure on the rest of the lineup. One is fine because goal scoring is important but too many like him and the team will struggle.

Just look at how much Toffoli has bounced around the league. He is only valuable in very specific situations.

 

[Star Platinum]

I don't see why Graf should be penciled in to the 3rd line next year. He's had a good season in the NHL, and should be given the opportunity to earn the right to play in the top 6. I can see the argument for Musty needing more time in the AHL, but Chernyshov has already played pro hockey against men and has a much more complete game. I also don't see a scenario where Will Smith is ready to be the second line center and Wennberg will drop out of the top 6. If you drop out 1(possibly 2) of the top 6 forwards going into next year it's obviously going to create a need, but I don't see it that way. I see the top 6 lining up as some derivation of:

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Open Spot-Wennberg-Smith

The bottom 6 is a total wasteland right now, and basically needs to be entirely revamped, and so does the defense. Those are much bigger problems.

The Sharks also aren't going to be competing next year, and I'm not sure what the rush is to try and fill out the lineup.

Wennberg needs to go back to the third line because we are a goal starved team. He should never be our first choice for 2C, only in an emergency.

 

[sampler]

They're both extremely slow right-shot wingers who score goals and are passable defensively (not enough to trust with the PK or a shutdown role) but don't really contribute with playmaking, forechecking, physicality, etc. Boeser has scored 30 once in his career while Toffoli is about to do it for the third straight year hence poor man's Toffoli. Also unlike Toff, Boeser has never come close to winning anything and has spent his career playing for a horrible team.

Wow, you really are low on him... Interesting...

Career: hes a 30G, 64pts per 82 player player. Defensively, I hear you. Toffoli is also no defensive gem.

Don't get me wrong, there are guys I could want more, but they'd all cost more, come with age risk and thus don't fit in longer term, or have some other problem. That's why Im looking at guys who 1. cost a reasonable amount, so as to present less risk. 2. could actually want to come to SJ since we might be the best opportunity they have (SJ is about the least attractive destination there is right now for UFAs) . 3. have the size we need to start building an adult NHL roster. 4. have the goal scoring ability that is so massively lacking on this current roster, which has all of two, just TWO 20 goal scorers.

Boeser is the only guy I can see who fits that bill other than Bennett. Bennett is a C though, and will be much higher sought after by contending teams after winning the cup and the 4 nations. I don't see him as a realistic target unless they give him like 7 x70 or something crazy like that. If choosing between Boeser or Bennett at the same term and price, I take bennett, but I dont think they'll have that choice.

Of course, all of this is likely moot, as I still expect Grier to sign 1-2 year overpriced vets, to buy time for the kids to play in the AHL, utmost flexibility going forward, and easy flipping at next year's TDL for more draft capital. Deals just like Wennberg's. Something like Brock Nelson 2yr, 16M. Alex Iafallo, 2 yrs 10M.

Damn, I just wanna fast forward to the may lottery, and then fast forward to the draft... Watch from Draft day to July 10, then hibernate 2 more months.

 

[Lebanezer]

Wennberg needs to go back to the third line because we are a goal starved team. He should never be our first choice for 2C, only in an emergency.

He’s perfectly acceptable on the 2nd line for a rebuilding team. I wouldn’t advise signing a 2C anyway. Bigger problems on the back end.

 

[Star Platinum]

He’s perfectly acceptable on the 2nd line for a rebuilding team. I wouldn’t advise signing a 2C anyway. Bigger problems on the back end.

 

[Hodge]

Wow, you really are low on him... Interesting...

Career: hes a 30G, 64pts per 82 player player. Defensively, I hear you. Toffoli is also no defensive gem.

Don't get me wrong, there are guys I could want more, but they'd all cost more, come with age risk and thus don't fit in longer term, or have some other problem. That's why Im looking at guys who 1. cost a reasonable amount, so as to present less risk. 2. could actually want to come to SJ since we might be the best opportunity they have (SJ is about the least attractive destination there is right now for UFAs) . 3. have the size we need to start building an adult NHL roster. 4. have the goal scoring ability that is so massively lacking on this current roster, which has all of two, just TWO 20 goal scorers.

Boeser is the only guy I can see who fits that bill other than Bennett. Bennett is a C though, and will be much higher sought after by contending teams after winning the cup and the 4 nations. I don't see him as a realistic target unless they give him like 7 x70 or something crazy like that. If choosing between Boeser or Bennett at the same term and price, I take bennett, but I dont think they'll have that choice.

Of course, all of this is likely moot, as I still expect Grier to sign 1-2 year overpriced vets, to buy time for the kids to play in the AHL, utmost flexibility going forward, and easy flipping at next year's TDL for more draft capital. Deals just like Wennberg's. Something like Brock Nelson 2yr, 16M. Alex Iafallo, 2 yrs 10M.

Damn, I just wanna fast forward to the may lottery, and then fast forward to the draft... Watch from Draft day to July 10, then hibernate 2 more months.

Boeser is looking for 8M+ AAV on a 7 year deal and there are teams desperate enough to give it to him. He's definitely not gonna be cheap. I just don't think we should be investing that much money and term on the wing for a Toffoli clone.

 

[sampler]

He’s perfectly acceptable on the 2nd line for a rebuilding team. I wouldn’t advise signing a 2C anyway. Bigger problems on the back end.

Oh jeez, no way. If Wennberg is your 2C, you are an epic bottom feeder. I guess hes fine as a 2C on a rebuilding team if the goal is to shoot for the #1OA pick. In that case, my 99 year old grandma is a great 1C option too if the goal is just to lose.... Although she could lay on a pretty thick layer of guilt on the other team if they score against her...

He is a 3C on a reasonable team.

A good team has a 1C going at least point per game. A 2C should be good for approx. 60pts+ or so. A 3c on a good team puts in 30-40 pts:
Scheifele- vilardi-Perfetti/Lowry
Eichel-Hertl-Barbashev/Howden/Roy
Aho-jarvis-Roslovic

Wennberg fits that 3C descriptor well. But he is woefully underskilled to be a top 6F on an even average team.

next year, if Smith has bulked up a bit in the gym and can move back to C and drive his line, then the sharks could be almost PO worthy down the middle with celly-smith-wennberg. next year, I think that 1-2-3 is good enough to compete for playoffs, espcially if they add a scoring winger or two to complement eklund. The D on the other hand? well... they only need 4 more top 4 guys . Easy peasy...

 

[Jargon]

Boeser is looking for 8M+ AAV on a 7 year deal and there are teams desperate enough to give it to him. He's definitely not gonna be cheap. I just don't think we should be investing that much money and term on the wing for a Toffoli clone.

I agree. He’s exactly the kind of deal I think Grier said he’s not looking for right now. He’s fine but for 7 years? No thanks.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Boeser is looking for 8M+ AAV on a 7 year deal and there are teams desperate enough to give it to him. He's definitely not gonna be cheap. I just don't think we should be investing that much money and term on the wing for a Toffoli clone.

I think anyone asking for a 7 year deal from us in free agency is going to be a pass.

 

[sampler]

Boeser is looking for 8M+ AAV on a 7 year deal and there are teams desperate enough to give it to him. He's definitely not gonna be cheap. I just don't think we should be investing that much money and term on the wing for a Toffoli clone.

I agree with the term and AAV he'll want. Im not sure other teams, at least contending ones, will offer that, though they might. that said, the cap is going to ecclipse 100M shortly. Cooch and Pickles will be coming off the books. $8M aint what it used to be, and it's important to update that mentality. 8M is now like 6.5M this season in terms of cap %, and by year 3 or 4 (or 7), 8M could be equivalent of 4-5M this year. I would be more than happy to get boeser at that kind of cap % hit.

Of course, I'd rather break the bank for top end D that help out at both ends, but I dont think we can get those in UFA without taking on big time age risk in a manner that makes little sense. if you were a 27 or 28 year old, top pairing D, why would you ever consider signing in SJ right now. I could see a second pairing guy take a huge payday to sign here, but I dont think that makes alot of sense for the sharks either, since wed still be left with glaring holes at the top end.

I guess its a year to add early/mid 30's guys on short term, high $ deals to fill holes until the kids are ready or seek to trade for 23 or younger guys that can fit long term (like Cuylle). or just wait. gotta spend to the minimum though...

Maybe the sharks can land Provorov? 7x8? He'd be a nice pairing with Mukh as two russians with respectable size and skating who can contribute at both ends.

 

[Lebanezer]

Oh jeez, no way. If Wennberg is your 2C, you are an epic bottom feeder. I guess hes fine as a 2C on a rebuilding team if the goal is to shoot for the #1OA pick. In that case, my 99 year old grandma is a great 1C option too if the goal is just to lose.... Although she could lay on a pretty thick layer of guilt on the other team if they score against her...

He is a 3C on a reasonable team.

A good team has a 1C going at least point per game. A 2C should be good for approx. 60pts+ or so. A 3c on a good team puts in 30-40 pts:
Scheifele- vilardi-Perfetti/Lowry
Eichel-Hertl-Barbashev/Howden/Roy
Aho-jarvis-Roslovic

Wennberg fits that 3C descriptor well. But he is woefully underskilled to be a top 6F on an even average team.

next year, if Smith has bulked up a bit in the gym and can move back to C and drive his line, then the sharks could be almost PO worthy down the middle with celly-smith-wennberg. next year, I think that 1-2-3 is good enough to compete for playoffs, espcially if they add a scoring winger or two to complement eklund. The D on the other hand? well... they only need 4 more top 4 guys . Easy peasy...

The Sharks aren't a reasonable or average team yet. They're not particularly close, even if Smith has a good summer. I understand the optimism, and desire to get close the POs faster, but it's not something that can be accomplished quickly.

 

[Hodge]

I agree with the term and AAV he'll want. Im not sure other teams, at least contending ones, will offer that, though they might. that said, the cap is going to ecclipse 100M shortly. Cooch and Pickles will be coming off the books. $8M aint what it used to be, and it's important to update that mentality. 8M is now like 6.5M this season in terms of cap %, and by year 3 or 4 (or 7), 8M could be equivalent of 4-5M this year. I would be more than happy to get boeser at that kind of cap % hit.

Of course, I'd rather break the bank for top end D that help out at both ends, but I dont think we can get those in UFA without taking on big time age risk in a manner that makes little sense. if you were a 27 or 28 year old, top pairing D, why would you ever consider signing in SJ right now. I could see a second pairing guy take a huge payday to sign here, but I dont think that makes alot of sense for the sharks either, since wed still be left with glaring holes at the top end.

I guess its a year to add early/mid 30's guys on short term, high $ deals to fill holes until the kids are ready or seek to trade for 23 or younger guys that can fit long term (like Cuylle). or just wait. gotta spend to the minimum though...

Maybe the sharks can land Provorov? 7x8? He'd be a nice pairing with Mukh as two russians with respectable size and skating who can contribute at both ends.

Provorov and Gavrikov would be much better targets IMO. Too bad they're both left shots but they've each played the right side in the past and should lock down a top 4 spot on our blueline for the next 4-5 years.

 

[Star Platinum]

The Sharks aren't a reasonable or average team yet. They're not particularly close, even if Smith has a good summer. I understand the optimism, and desire to get close the POs faster, but it's not something that can be accomplished quickly.

They aren't, but that's no reason not to pursue better players in free agency if it makes financial sense

 

[matt trick]

We're going to be quite bad next year too. We're forty goals worse in GD then 3rd place Nashville and 25 worse than Chicago. Yes we've got assets to spend, but every other team is better, and few are in cap hell. Celebrini's wings are the one desirable offer we have.

You can say Grier needs to figure out a way to add talent, and he does. He's aggressive, I'm confident he'll be turning over every stone. However, we have a ton of holes, and not all, or perhaps even half, can be added in one offseason. Nor will all the youth (this year's first, BDE, Cherny, Musty) be ready to fill the major ones (top 6/top 4), next year.

Players will have the Sharks on their NTCs, GMs of other teams may prefer to send talent elsewhere, others will prefer more cash/years than we want to offer for secondary (or tertiary) talent. UFA contracts tend to get worse as time goes on.

The way I see it, we need

• At least three middle six forwards, four (if you rate Graf a good 4th liner), including one who's a clear top 6. Cherny may get their by the deadline, but not counting on anyone else this year, and it won't be immediate.
• Two top four d-men, including one who's a #3 type, and one who plays on the right.
• Another solid NHL goalie to pair with Askarov

I'm not optimistic we'll get all six of those players, and even then, we'd still be looking for upgrades. Another year of incremental progress. The major strides will come from the youth, but we got to give them a bit more talent to play with.

NHL caliber talent is our issue. Not size. If we could add Girard, Spurgeon, Caufield, and Garland/Konecky (all 5'10 or less), this team would be far better off.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

We're going to be quite bad next year too. We're forty goals worse in GD then 3rd place Nashville and 25 worse than Chicago. Yes we've got assets to spend, but every other team is better, and few are in cap hell. Celebrini's wings are the one desirable offer we have.

You can say Grier needs to figure out a way to add talent, and he does. He's aggressive, I'm confident he'll be turning over every stone. However, we have a ton of holes, and not all, or perhaps even half, can be added in one offseason. Nor will all the youth (this year's first, BDE, Cherny, Musty) be ready to fill the major ones (top 6/top 4), next year.

Players will have the Sharks on their NTCs, GMs of other teams may prefer to send talent elsewhere, others will prefer more cash/years than we want to offer for secondary (or tertiary) talent. UFA contracts tend to get worse as time goes on.

The way I see it, we need

• At least three middle six forwards, four (if you rate Graf a good 4th liner), including one who's a clear top 6. Cherny may get their by the deadline, but not counting on anyone else this year, and it won't be immediate.
• Two top four d-men, including one who's a #3 type, and one who plays on the right.
• Another solid NHL goalie to pair with Askarov

I'm not optimistic we'll get all six of those players, and even then, we'd still be looking for upgrades. Another year of incremental progress. The major strides will come from the youth, but we got to give them a bit more talent to play with.

NHL caliber talent is our issue. Not size. If we could add Girard, Spurgeon, Caufield, and Garland/Konecky (all 5'10 or less), this team would be far better off.

We got two middle six forwards last year but couldn't get much of anything defensively and have had to sort of make due with limited goaltending options. I'd like for them to exhaust the backend vacancies because those have been the most difficult to fill and they still seem a bit limited from a goaltending perspective. It's not going to be easy to find a guy that is both a very good goalie and understanding that they're probably #2 going into it all.

 

[Lebanezer]

They aren't, but that's no reason not to pursue better players in free agency if it makes financial sense

Within reason, sure. I just don’t think that top 6ers are a priority. Defense and bottom 6 is far more important and doesn’t have obvious internal solutions.

 

[Star Platinum]

Within reason, sure. I just don’t think that top 6ers are a priority. Defense and bottom 6 is far more important and doesn’t have obvious internal solutions.

I'm not convinced that going after one makes it harder to go after the other. But we're a last place team, so anybody who is clearly better than the guys we have and is willing to come is welcome.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Within reason, sure. I just don’t think that top 6ers are a priority. Defense and bottom 6 is far more important and doesn’t have obvious internal solutions.

I don't think they are a priority compared to improving the blue line and getting a solid partner for Askarov in net but they need to snag them if they can since it'll help them with their bottom six. We should be trying to get 2nd liners or top six guys on our 3rd line. Creating depth is what helps teams become more competitive. They have the space to bring in everything they hypothetically need. It's whether the opportunities are there.

 

[Gecklund]

Provorov and Gavrikov would be much better targets IMO. Too bad they're both left shots but they've each played the right side in the past and should lock down a top 4 spot on our blueline for the next 4-5 years.

Do you watch other teams like at all? Provorov is not good.

 

[Hodge]

Do you watch other teams like at all? Provorov is not good.

You think every player above 5'10 is bad so I don't really care about your opinion.

 

[Patty Ice]

You think every player above 5'10 is bad so I don't really care about your opinion.

It's like Superman vs Bizarro Superman.

 

[Star Platinum]

It's like Superman vs Bizarro Superman.

 

[Gecklund]

It's like Superman vs Bizarro Superman.

Which one am I?

You think every player above 5'10 is bad so I don't really care about your opinion.

That’s just not really true but I’m glad to see the feeling’s mutual!

 

[Patty Ice]

Which one am I?

The one who believes he is in the right.

 

[Gecklund]

The one who believes he is in the right.

I mean I don’t think anyone is in the wrong. It’s talking about hockey. It ain’t that deep.