NEW: Sharks Trade Deadline Predictions

John Gibson was the main one, and he had a different kind of appeal than Blackwood, but also different question marks. If the Sharks had waited and Gibson had stayed healthy he very well could've been the guy a team like Colorado grabbed instead.
I think Colorado was never going with Gibson simply because of how much term was left on His contract.
 
Once he gets over Essiymont, he can move on from the Granny deal. Seeing the price of Nelson and Dummoulin, I do wonder if we could have gotten a better offers for Granlund and Ceci, individually or together.
Yeah, this is my thinking as well. Though it's important to remember that every player is different, and it's possible that team(s) hyper-focused on certain players and were willing to pay more.
 
If the end goal was to get a first for Granlund, I am not worrying about whether we could have squeezed a bit more value out of the deal. We got the first. There's no way you can convince Colorado that Granlund is worth what Nelson is worth, even if Granlund has better numbers, so I don't think we were getting Ritchie from them or anything.

Personally, and this is just me, I don't think GMs valued Granlund as much as they should and took into account his poor play last time he was traded and the market was cooler on him than other centers like Laughton, Nelson etc. For better or for worse, and Grier very likely knew this as well.

Get the first and get out.
 
If the end goal was to get a first for Granlund, I am not worrying about whether we could have squeezed a bit more value out of the deal. We got the first. There's no way you can convince Colorado that Granlund is worth what Nelson is worth, even if Granlund has better numbers, so I don't think we were getting Ritchie from them or anything.

Personally, and this is just me, I don't think GMs valued Granlund as much as they should and took into account his poor play last time he was traded and the market was cooler on him than other centers like Laughton, Nelson etc. For better or for worse, and Grier very likely knew this as well.

Get the first and get out.
I actually have no problem with pulling the trigger on Granlund when we did. I'm more wondering why we threw Ceci in basically for nothing. A worse defenseman In Luke Schenn got dealt for a 2nd and 4th on his own.
 
Love the new episode @Kcoyote3

Brock is always a great listen. I love how he pointed out Chernyshov would be a great guy to pair with Smith. I've been of that thought for months now. A line of Musty-Smith-Chernyshov has the making of an elite second line. What Chernyshov brings in his total game helps offset concerns that people have with both Musty and Smith namely their skating and defensive presence. It'll help to balance out our future top 6 with Eklund and Celebrini. That top line having elite talent already leaves Lund or Halttunen, if they hit, to round out that line. Or if we end up with a forward with our top pick this year.

Though nothing is set in stone, Grier and co. has given this team a lot of flexibility with how strong this pool is looking.
 
Peng on his soapbox for Goodrow, couldn't disagree more. I agree that he probably gets too much shit for a nobody 4th liner. But he's one of the worst contracts in the league that we stupidly took on for nothing, that has a cemented spot in the lineup.
 
Sheng has gotten soft. He should have pushed back much harder on Keegan's idiotic argument that Bordeleau and Gushchin should be playing in bottom six roles over proven NHLers like Gregor, Grundstrom, Dellandrea and Goodrow. Warsofsky's job is still to go with the 12 forwards who give his team the best chance to win, with considerations made for Ostapchuk's ability to play center and Lund's leverage coming out of college.
 
Peng on his soapbox for Goodrow, couldn't disagree more. I agree that he probably gets too much shit for a nobody 4th liner. But he's one of the worst contracts in the league that we stupidly took on for nothing, that has a cemented spot in the lineup.
You'd think that Kunin being a complete disaster with Columbus would reign in the random 4th liner love.
 
Sheng has gotten soft. He should have pushed back much harder on Keegan's idiotic argument that Bordeleau and Gushchin should be playing in bottom six roles over proven NHLers like Gregor, Grundstrom, Dellandrea and Goodrow. Warsofsky's job is still to go with the 12 forwards who give his team the best chance to win, with considerations made for Ostapchuk's ability to play center and Lund's leverage coming out of college.
Let's face it, maybe one of those guys is an actual NHLer at this point
 
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Sheng has gotten soft. He should have pushed back much harder on Keegan's idiotic argument that Bordeleau and Gushchin should be playing in bottom six roles over proven NHLers like Gregor, Grundstrom, Dellandrea and Goodrow. Warsofsky's job is still to go with the 12 forwards who give his team the best chance to win, with considerations made for Ostapchuk's ability to play center and Lund's leverage coming out of college.
Nice to hear from you. Those NHLers are not good. They have continued to be not good the entire year and have led to the worst defensive team in hockey, and the second worst offensive team. Last year the Sharks regularly iced 9 players who are no longer on NHL rosters. The guys that are traded from this team, with the exception of Granlund, Walman and Ceci, have floundered. Some of the players that are here are "NHLers" in name only for the worst team in the league.

I am sure glad you enjoy seeing those four players you mentioned every night because watching them to me, is like pulling teeth. I have no love for them out there. Ostapchuk, I get it. You're trying to make a bottom six center and maybe just trotting out the kid out there will eventually work. Maybe it won't. We tried to make Dylan Gambrell a thing until it became apparent he wasn't. But still, he's young and you just acquired him.

There's in my mind no reason why Gregor wasn't just waived immediately. Why we have to pretend like Dellandrea/Grund/Kostin/Giles/whoever are any good just because they have 1 way contracts and varying degrees of success in the past.

And to your point, would I rather see Kovalenko or Gushchin, hell even Cardwell right now? Damn right. There's not a way to realistically make that happen without more injuries, but this happens very frequently. Kovalenko get a shot, does some good things, but makes mistakes and he's banished for games a time. Your 13-14th forward du jour does absolutely nothing and still gets scored on because they can't push play to save their lives, and they end up with 75 games at the end of the year around here.
 
I can understand not playing Gushchin or Bordeleau; the organization might think there's nothing there and that's fair enough.

But how about Cardwell?
 
Sheng has gotten soft. He should have pushed back much harder on Keegan's idiotic argument that Bordeleau and Gushchin should be playing in bottom six roles over proven NHLers like Gregor, Grundstrom, Dellandrea and Goodrow. Warsofsky's job is still to go with the 12 forwards who give his team the best chance to win, with considerations made for Ostapchuk's ability to play center and Lund's leverage coming out of college.
Warsofsky's job right now is to look as good as possible while still losing. In that sense, the third and fourth lines are genius.

I don't know why we talk about Bordeleau and Gushchin anymore - it's clear the organization doesn't see them as NHL players. If they get another shot, it won't be here.
 
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I am sure glad you enjoy seeing those four players you mentioned every night because watching them to me, is like pulling teeth. I have no love for them out there. Ostapchuk, I get it. You're trying to make a bottom six center and maybe just trotting out the kid out there will eventually work. Maybe it won't. We tried to make Dylan Gambrell a thing until it became apparent he wasn't. But still, he's young and you just acquired him.
I feel the same way about all those guys. Nothing of consequence ever happens when those guys are on the ice. Contracts probably mean some of them are coming back, but I'd get rid of every last one of them.

I'm pretty skeptical at this point that there's some hidden ability hiding in Ostapchuk as well.
 
Nice to hear from you. Those NHLers are not good. They have continued to be not good the entire year and have led to the worst defensive team in hockey, and the second worst offensive team. Last year the Sharks regularly iced 9 players who are no longer on NHL rosters. The guys that are traded from this team, with the exception of Granlund, Walman and Ceci, have floundered. Some of the players that are here are "NHLers" in name only for the worst team in the league.

I am sure glad you enjoy seeing those four players you mentioned every night because watching them to me, is like pulling teeth. I have no love for them out there. Ostapchuk, I get it. You're trying to make a bottom six center and maybe just trotting out the kid out there will eventually work. Maybe it won't. We tried to make Dylan Gambrell a thing until it became apparent he wasn't. But still, he's young and you just acquired him.

There's in my mind no reason why Gregor wasn't just waived immediately. Why we have to pretend like Dellandrea/Grund/Kostin/Giles/whoever are any good just because they have 1 way contracts and varying degrees of success in the past.

And to your point, would I rather see Kovalenko or Gushchin, hell even Cardwell right now? Damn right. There's not a way to realistically make that happen without more injuries, but this happens very frequently. Kovalenko get a shot, does some good things, but makes mistakes and he's banished for games a time. Your 13-14th forward du jour does absolutely nothing and still gets scored on because they can't push play to save their lives, and they end up with 75 games at the end of the year around here.

I can understand not playing Gushchin or Bordeleau; the organization might think there's nothing there and that's fair enough.

But how about Cardwell?
I understand @Kcoyote3 sentiment (which others share and have shared for years) to "give the kids some ice."

I think this applies specifically to Goodrow, possibly to Grundstrom, definitely to Gregor, but less so to Dellandrea, who himself is a kid who might look great in the A. As Keenan pointed out, "I get it with Ostapchuk" and to his credit he and Dellandrea have looked slightly better of late, even in losses. Goodrow -- it's just one of those "old time hockey" things and it doesn't look like it's going to change. You would expect someone who "plays the right way" and "is always hustling" and "has a good stick" would have, at the very least, a low-event play style, but Goodrow is our worst forward for On-ice GA/60 at 3.73, which is 32nd worst among all skaters in the league. (EDIT: I guess being "only" 80th worst in the league for On-ice High Danger Shots Against indicates he might be getting caved in but at least it's not really dangerous???) He's certainly low-event offensively, at 20th worst in the league for On-ice GF/60 (Gregor is 3rd worst in the league, Dellandrea 17th worst).

I don't get why Kovalenko hasn't been given his chances by Warso. I get why Kostin has and hasn't -- for whatever reason, it has made perfect sense to me both when he has been scratched and when he has been in the lineup, and where he's been lined up.

I agree with Orr here on Cardwell. If you're going to give any of the kids a chance, it's him. I personally think that Grier and co have given up on Gushchin and Bords, and I agree given the team we're trying to build, so I am not surprised that they aren't the ones getting callups. But I am surprised that Graf went down and Cardwell hasn't seen more time up.
 
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I think Dellandrea is kinda in the Kunin role from last year where he can play center and is therefore locked in due to our lack of center depth.

Goodrow, unfortunately just have to accept he's also got a locked in role.

Definitely no reason for Gregor to be getting games.

Grundstrom... Idk he hustles.

I feel like we've had an issue on the 3rd line of not having a good enough partner for Graf to play against and Gushchin/Bordeleau/Cardwell could have been an interesting option there at least to get them that audition time
 
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I understand @Kcoyote3 sentiment (which others share and have shared for years) to "give the kids some ice."

I think this applies specifically to Goodrow, possibly to Grundstrom, definitely to Gregor, but less so to Dellandrea, who himself is a kid who might look great in the A. As Keenan pointed out, "I get it with Ostapchuk" and to his credit he and Dellandrea have looked slightly better of late, even in losses. Goodrow -- it's just one of those "old time hockey" things and it doesn't look like it's going to change. You would expect someone who "plays the right way" and "is always hustling" and "has a good stick" would have, at the very least, a low-event play style, but Goodrow is our worst forward for On-ice GA/60 at 3.73, which is 32nd worst among all skaters in the league. (EDIT: I guess being "only" 80th worst in the league for On-ice High Danger Shots Against indicates he might be getting caved in but at least it's not really dangerous???) He's certainly low-event offensively, at 20th worst in the league for On-ice GF/60 (Gregor is 3rd worst in the league, Dellandrea 17th worst).

I don't get why Kovalenko hasn't been given his chances by Warso. I get why Kostin has and hasn't -- for whatever reason, it has made perfect sense to me both when he has been scratched and when he has been in the lineup, and where he's been lined up.

I agree with Orr here on Cardwell. If you're going to give any of the kids a chance, it's him. I personally think that Grier and co have given up on Gushchin and Bords, and I agree given the team we're trying to build, so I am not surprised that they aren't the ones getting callups. But I am surprised that Graf went down and Cardwell hasn't seen more time up.
I think the fundamental flaw with the argument for Gushchin, Bords, Kovalenko, and Kostin is that they aren’t taking bottom 6 spots in the lineup. All 4 of those players have significant flaws in their game that they need to offset with significant offensive production. None of those players can drive play offensively in the NHL either so they would need to specifically be 3rd wheels on a top 6 line for any of those 4 players to succeed. They simply won’t produce on a 3rd line given the Sharks depth. Kostin has had some opportunities in the top 6 and had occasional flashes but he along with the other 3 are not good enough to beat out any of the current top 6 players the Sharks have. Maybe Toffoli being injured creates an opening but those 4 players have no future if not playing in the top 6.

Cardwell I agree looked good and plays a bottom 6 style, but being so young there is no need to force him in the lineup over the current bottom 6 players.

Now if the Sharks had the depth to have Wenberg and Graf on a 3rd line then maybe one of those 4 players could play on that line but that would then leave a nonexistent 2nd line for the Sharks currently.
 
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Nice to hear from you. Those NHLers are not good. They have continued to be not good the entire year and have led to the worst defensive team in hockey, and the second worst offensive team. Last year the Sharks regularly iced 9 players who are no longer on NHL rosters. The guys that are traded from this team, with the exception of Granlund, Walman and Ceci, have floundered. Some of the players that are here are "NHLers" in name only for the worst team in the league.

I am sure glad you enjoy seeing those four players you mentioned every night because watching them to me, is like pulling teeth. I have no love for them out there. Ostapchuk, I get it. You're trying to make a bottom six center and maybe just trotting out the kid out there will eventually work. Maybe it won't. We tried to make Dylan Gambrell a thing until it became apparent he wasn't. But still, he's young and you just acquired him.

There's in my mind no reason why Gregor wasn't just waived immediately. Why we have to pretend like Dellandrea/Grund/Kostin/Giles/whoever are any good just because they have 1 way contracts and varying degrees of success in the past.

And to your point, would I rather see Kovalenko or Gushchin, hell even Cardwell right now? Damn right. There's not a way to realistically make that happen without more injuries, but this happens very frequently. Kovalenko get a shot, does some good things, but makes mistakes and he's banished for games a time. Your 13-14th forward du jour does absolutely nothing and still gets scored on because they can't push play to save their lives, and they end up with 75 games at the end of the year around here.
I never claimed Gregor, Goodrow, Grundstrom and Dellandrea are good NHLers, just that they are NHL players as evidenced by playoff-bound NHL teams giving them regular lineup spots over the past few seasons. Bordeleau, Gushchin, Kovalenko and Kostin do not have similar credentials and as @gaucholoco3 pointed out they definitely aren't bottom six forwards. Cardwell has a more realistic chance to play a bottom six role in the future but ultimately he's just another smurf on a team that's already small up front. Nobody should care if he doesn't get another shot.
 
I think the fundamental flaw with the argument for Gushchin, Bords, Kovalenko, and Kostin is that they aren’t taking bottom 6 spots in the lineup. All 4 of those players have significant flaws in their game that they need to offset with significant offensive production. None of those players can drive play offensively in the NHL either so they would need to specifically be 3rd wheels on a top 6 line for any of those 4 players to succeed. They simply won’t produce on a 3rd line given the Sharks depth. Kostin has had some opportunities in the top 6 and had occasional flashes but he along with the other 3 are not good enough to beat out any of the current top 6 players the Sharks have. Maybe Toffoli being injured creates an opening but those 4 players have no future if not playing in the top 6.

Cardwell I agree looked good and plays a bottom 6 style, but being so young there is no need to force him in the lineup over the current bottom 6 players.

Now if the Sharks had the depth to have Wenberg and Graf on a 3rd line then maybe one of those 4 players could play on that line but that would then leave a nonexistent 2nd line for the Sharks currently.
I don't see a bottom six style that any particular player needs to play a certain way to fill. 3rd lines are stylistically more like 2nd lines than 4th lines.
 
The only player I will criticize Warso for not playing enough is Grundstrom. He has shown top 9 skill in the past (15 goal pace last 3 seasons before this one) while playing the physical north-south style Warso wants and would be a great complement on any of our top three lines.
 
The only player I will criticize Warso for not playing enough is Grundstrom. He has shown top 9 skill in the past (15 goal pace last 3 seasons before this one) while playing the physical north-south style Warso wants and would be a great complement on any of our top three lines.
I certainly prefer Grundstrom to Goodrow, Dellandrea, Gregor, Kostin, and Kunin.
 
I don't see a bottom six style that any particular player needs to play a certain way to fill. 3rd lines are stylistically more like 2nd lines than 4th lines.
It’s not about the style of a line. It is about the level of linemates. All those 4 players mentioned earlier do not provide much value defensively and need to score to provide value. They also are not capable of driving play at the NHL level. So if the Sharks had the depth to play one of those 4 in a 3rd line role with players that can drive play and provide scoring then they could play on the bottom 6. The truth is the Sharks don’t have the depth to have even a 2nd line like that let alone a 3rd.
 

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