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Shark in Hockeytown

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Using last years numbers to say they can’t make the improvement to playoffs is just short sighted. This is almost a completely different roster than last year with a new coach.

Granlund, Eklund and Zetterlund are the only projected top 9 players that were with the team last season. Also Walman and Benning could be half of the top 4 D that didn’t play for the team last season. Vanecek is better than Kappo. It’s not like the Sharks lost players that they can’t replace. Every single player the Sharks lost from last season was a below replacement level player.

The coach alone can also account for a 20 point improvement.

Smith had better numbers than Eichel so why can’t he have a 50 point season like he did.

It is unlikely but as the mythbusters would say it is plausible that they can make the playoffs.

Last year's numbers matter because they show how far the team has to go to even be in playoff contention. They need to improve by 45-50 points this season to be a marginal playoff team. How many teams in the salary cap era have done that? The Penguins improved 47 points from 05-06 to 06-07, with Crosby in his second season, and Malkin and J.Staal as rookies, and with a decent blue line (Gonchar, Whitney, Orpik, Scuderi) and Fleury in goal. The Avs improved 47 points from 16-17 to 17-18, but they had averaged a point a game or more for the three seasons before 16-17, suggesting that the collapse in 16-17 did not reflect the strength of the team and resulted from the sudden resignation of Patrick Roy before the season.

The differences between good teams and bad teams are large; it is not just a player or two. I expect the Sharks will be noticeably better this season. #1 reason: regression to the mean. A 25 point improvement is possible. But even with that, they are out of the playoff picture by February 1.
 

mogambomoroo

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I think there is so much fresh air in the Sharks organization right now, that I'm big believer in a chance to improve a lot. Listening to players offseason interview, they really want to get back and change the course. The hype around Celebrini and Smith is real. I'm just excited about the journey, even though playoffs are still far away.
 
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tiburon12

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Was pretty disappointing to hear Sheng not realize why his Clickbait article about the Sharks not leaving was poorly written and caused panic amongst the fans. It wasn't the tweet or people not listening to the pod. It was the article.

The lede is literally: "The Sharks could leave San Jose in four years."

Does that sound like it represents what Becher said? And on top of that it directly contradicts the title and the following H2 (which itself was grammatically poor).

Why wasn't the lede "Things are looking good for the Sharks to stay at SAP Center"???

Reading it really bothered me because I listened to the interview first, and now hearing him miss the mark entirely is doubly disappointing.
 

Star Platinum

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Was pretty disappointing to hear Sheng not realize why his Clickbait article about the Sharks not leaving was poorly written and caused panic amongst the fans. It wasn't the tweet or people not listening to the pod. It was the article.
Sharks.jpg
 
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timorous me

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So why write a lede that directly contradicts that statement??

The only defense to this is semantic BS. He knew what he was doing and got bopped on the nose for it. Accept it, own it, and move on.
My defense for Sheng would be that when you write so many articles and you want them to feel human and not like they were just churned out by AI, you're going to try different approaches, try to spice things up sometimes. And sometimes in doing so you're going to maybe get a little too clever for your own good.

Usually that wouldn't really amount to much of anything, but this time obviously it did strike a nerve. To me, though, it's a little nothingburger, but I can understand why it's bothered some. But I see on the original article that there are zero comments, no one complaining there, so that makes me wonder if this is just primarily a social media controversy, which to me is the most meaningless kind of controversy out there.
 

Star Platinum

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So why write a lede that directly contradicts that statement??

The only defense to this is semantic BS. He knew what he was doing and got bopped on the nose for it. Accept it, own it, and move on.
Well, first of all, you are misunderstanding what a lede in a story is. The lede is not the first sentence in the story. The lede is whatever the most important information is in the story.

The second thing I would say is that I would agree that the first sentence is unnecessary and confuses the point of the story. If there was an editor, that person probably would have suggested to just remove that sentence from the story.

The third thing I would say is that sometimes people make mistakes in stories. I had to correct a prominent journalist yesterday on Twitter a story he wrote because he accidentally wrote that someone had worked for the Biden White House when she actually worked for the Trump White House. He corrected his column and added a note noting the correction. Writers sometimes make mistakes. To presume that there was some purposeful intent to deceive on Sheng's part is an opinion, but it's not one I share.

And I also think that anyone that took the time to read the full article would have understood that the main point of the article was not that the Sharks are intending to leave the Bay Area. I understood that when I watched the Youtube interview and I understood it when I read the article later.

My personal opinion is that a lot of people got their panties in a twist over nothing.

so that makes me wonder if this is just primarily a social media controversy, which to me is the most meaningless kind of controversy out there.
Well said
 
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tiburon12

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My defense for Sheng would be that when you write so many articles and you want them to feel human and not like they were just churned out by AI, you're going to try different approaches, try to spice things up sometimes. And sometimes in doing so you're going to maybe get a little too clever for your own good.

Usually that wouldn't really amount to much of anything, but this time obviously it did strike a nerve. To me, though, it's a little nothingburger, but I can understand why it's bothered some. But I see on the original article that there are zero comments, no one complaining there, so that makes me wonder if this is just primarily a social media controversy, which to me is the most meaningless kind of controversy out there.
I write professionally for a living and know what you're talking about; opening lines take me a long time to edit and finalize. That said, I've never once considered writing an opening line that directly contradicted the point of the article or blog. Sorry, but I don't buy this defense in the slightest, especially from journalists who ask for supplemental monetary support from fans. I hold them to a high standard.

It was meaningless controversy, because it was 100% avoidable had he not opened the article that line. It's plain and simple.

Well, first of all, you are misunderstanding what a lede in a story is. The lede is not the first sentence in the story. The lede is whatever the most important information is in the story.
I'm not misunderstanding what a lede is, you are. Even if we were to agree it's not the first line, taking away from your lede by injecting a first line that contradicts the lede is awful journalism. To my earlier post, why wasn't the first line a positive sentiment? The answer is because he wanted the clicks/scrolls.

The second thing I would say is that I would agree that the first sentence is unnecessary and confuses the point of the story. If there was an editor, that person probably would have suggested to just remove that sentence from the story.
This thought process is correct is my exact point. If you agree then why defend? Genuinely confused.
The third thing I would say is that sometimes people make mistakes in stories. I had to correct a prominent journalist yesterday on Twitter a story he wrote because he accidentally wrote that someone had worked for the Biden White House when she actually worked for the Trump White House. He corrected his column and added a note noting the correction. Writers sometimes make mistakes. To presume that there was some purposeful intent to deceive on Sheng's part is an opinion, but it's not one I share.

Sheng didn't make a mistake, he wrote it this way on purpose. It's clickbait, or scroll bait. This was not a factual mistake, for if it was he would have said as much on the podcast. Instead he doubled down. He knew exactly what he was doing.

And I also think that anyone that took the time to read the full article would have understood that the main point of the article was not that the Sharks are intending to leave the Bay Area. I understood that when I watched the Youtube interview and I understood it when I read the article later.

My personal opinion is that a lot of people got their panties in a twist over nothing.
I took the time to read the full thing after listening to the full pod, that's why that line bothered me so much - it didn't reflect what Becher said. And obviously that line is what confused people and caused drama.

A lot of people "got their panties in a twist" because Sheng misrepresented what Becher said in the first line of his article! How can you not see that problem??? There's such an obvious and bold straight line here.....

I mean, Keegan literally says "at no point in that interview did I think the Sharks were leaving San Jose", yet Sheng starts his article with "The Sharks could leave San Jose in four years."
 
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Star Platinum

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I write professionally for a living and know what you're talking about; opening lines take me a long time to edit and finalize. That said, I've never once considered writing an opening line that directly contradicted the point of the article or blog. Sorry, but I don't buy this defense in the slightest, especially from journalists who ask for supplemental monetary support from fans. I hold them to a high standard.

It was meaningless controversy, because it was 100% avoidable had he not opened the article that line. It's plain and simple.


I'm not misunderstanding what a lede is, you are.
If the lede was always the first line in an article, it would be impossible to bury it.


Sheng didn't make a mistake, he wrote it this way on purpose. It's clickbait, or scroll bait. This was not a factual mistake, for if it was he would have said as much on the podcast. Instead he doubled down. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Continue twisting away at your panties if you must.
 

tiburon12

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If the lede was always the first line in an article, it would be impossible to bury it.



Continue twisting away at your panties if you must.

Your consistent misunderstanding of journalism jargon and idioms is quite apparent; did you even watch the video you shared?

1) "Buying the lede" is not putting the most important info (or the main point) at the top, very much implying that the lede is the first part of the article. It implies the lede isn't where it should be......:facepalm:

2) From the video "It's always a good idea to to lead with your main point." So was the main point of the article that the "The Sharks could leave San Jose"? Or was the main point that them leaving is unlikely because talks are going well? This is rhetorical because the answer is obviously the latter by just reading the article.

Sheng didn't bury the lede, he misrepresented the information in his lede for clicks.

I shouldn't have to spell this out, it's really obvious.
 

mogambomoroo

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Loved the episode!

Only thing I would give my 5 cents for now is approaching Askarov. I would not try to trade for him before Sharks have fixed their defence. Don't get me wrong Askarov is a piece that we definitely need and should approach if the deal is good, but I wouldn't go for him before they can ice a respectful defensive group.

One goalie I would try to approach is Spencer Knight. It could be as easy as a goalie for goalie trade which gives Florida some cap space and Sharks could get a future starter. I got this idea from couple trades made by Florida fans in PuckPedia. I'm not quite sure what Knight's value is right now, but I would guess it's quite low because of that cap hit.
 

gaucholoco3

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Jun 22, 2015
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Loved the episode!

Only thing I would give my 5 cents for now is approaching Askarov. I would not try to trade for him before Sharks have fixed their defence. Don't get me wrong Askarov is a piece that we definitely need and should approach if the deal is good, but I wouldn't go for him before they can ice a respectful defensive group.

One goalie I would try to approach is Spencer Knight. It could be as easy as a goalie for goalie trade which gives Florida some cap space and Sharks could get a future starter. I got this idea from couple trades made by Florida fans in PuckPedia. I'm not quite sure what Knight's value is right now, but I would guess it's quite low because of that cap hit.
I just don’t see why Florida would move out Knight especially now with little available to spend on by the space they save. Bob is getting older and Knight would be perfect for them to pass the torch. This is different than Askarov since Bob only has 2 years left on his deal.
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

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I've been thinking about that comparison to the 2016 Leafs since we won the lottery.

Can Granlund, Toffoli and Wennberg be our version of 2016 era Kadri, JvR and Bozak?

Can Celebrini, Smith and Eklund have the same impact Matthews, Marner and Nylander did that season?

Everything would have to break right for us but there is relatively recent precedent for a team going from last to the playoffs in one season.

The problem with the comparison to the 2016-2017 Leafs is that it goes beyond the top-6 Fs.

They had Frederik Andersen, a proven high-end starter, in net, and McBackup was solid as well. With average goaltending they are already negative in goal differential. With Blackwood and Vanecek they are probably -30 or worse.

And while they were still a very bad defensive team, the offense coming from their blue line was solid. Even prior to MNM showing up, Gardiner and Rielly had proven track records of being excellent offensive play drivers in top-4 roles on bad teams. Nobody on our blue line has anything remotely touching that track record.

Even outside of the top-6 Fs, there are so many areas of our team that just don't stack up right now. And realistically, our top-6 forwards being anywhere near as good as theirs were is already a very optimistic assumption.
 

timorous me

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The problem with the comparison to the 2016-2017 Leafs is that it goes beyond the top-6 Fs.

They had Frederik Andersen, a proven high-end starter, in net, and McBackup was solid as well. With average goaltending they are already negative in goal differential. With Blackwood and Vanecek they are probably -30 or worse.

And while they were still a very bad defensive team, the offense coming from their blue line was solid. Even prior to MNM showing up, Gardiner and Rielly had proven track records of being excellent offensive play drivers in top-4 roles on bad teams. Nobody on our blue line has anything remotely touching that track record.

Even outside of the top-6 Fs, there are so many areas of our team that just don't stack up right now. And realistically, our top-6 forwards being anywhere near as good as theirs were is already a very optimistic assumption.
And all this is perfectly fine, because who wants their team to be TML 2.0?
 
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OrrNumber4

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@tiburon12 is correct about the errors made, but I think you are stretching on Sheng's intent. I can see your explanation as possible, but maybe he just made a mistake or was sloppy. It happens
 

tiburon12

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@tiburon12 is correct about the errors made, but I think you are stretching on Sheng's intent. I can see your explanation as possible, but maybe he just made a mistake or was sloppy. It happens
I don't think it's much of a stretch to suggest that a writer who frequently mentions how little money he gets paid to do the job would try every possible way to drive clicks to his articles and maximize the ad revenue on each one.

I don't fault him for it at all. He has to play a shitty game in an industry that doesn't compensate fairly. As a writer, I get it. But that doesn't excuse not owning a "mistake" and playing dumb like it's impossible to figure out why the blowback happened.

Anyway, this complaint wasted way too much time
 

landshark

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I don't think it's much of a stretch to suggest that a writer who frequently mentions how little money he gets paid to do the job would try every possible way to drive clicks to his articles and maximize the ad revenue on each one.

I don't fault him for it at all. He has to play a shitty game in an industry that doesn't compensate fairly. As a writer, I get it. But that doesn't excuse not owning a "mistake" and playing dumb like it's impossible to figure out why the blowback happened.

Anyway, this complaint wasted way too much time
I think it helped fill a bit of the off season with some back and forth for the rest of us to read.

When the advertising bubble pops, shit gonna get really weird, really quickly.
 
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tiburon12

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Jul 18, 2009
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I liked this discourse in this week's episode about the term "face puncher", and the conclusion that....

Misrepresenting a player by using some flashy words is not the way to go:sarcasm::sarcasm:
 

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