HF Habs: New Season about to start but....

[OldCraig71]

Jake is solid. Edmundson back to help stabilize things. Good vibes around team. Everyone Love Marty. A few UFAs who want to earn a new contract. Wingers galore...if Monahan and Gally both bounce-back just a little and any of the young guys step up...we will win some games.

Hope I'm wrong.

Hey man, you might be right but in looking at the Eastern conference, it's really good and several teams have improved and as far as the players loving Marty, that was last year when the season was lost and there was no pressure to win, he will put more pressure on his players this season and will probably use young guys in tougher situations. Also, we don't have a number one or two defenseman on any decent team in the league, a top 5 pick is more of a reality than being competitive.

 

[McGees]

Hey man, you might be right but in looking at the Eastern conference, it's really good and several teams have improved and as far as the players loving Marty, that was last year when the season was lost and there was no pressure to win, he will put more pressure on his players this season and will probably use young guys in tougher situations. Also, we don't have a number one or two defenseman on any decent team in the league, a top 5 pick is more of a reality than being competitive.

Trust me, I hope so...Don't want a one and done tank year. Luckily the top 10 this draft looks great even if we don't finish right at the bottom.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Rebuilding through top picks and maximizing player value is the leading strategy for long term success.

I don't even disagree with your post but it's hard to understate how simplistic such a sentence is. There's a major difference between what you're describing and full-on tanks, like Edmonton's, Buffalo's and Arizona's, which is most here advocate for to the point of being dorks about it. A team like Tampa never tanked, kept their vets but ended up with a couple of high picks as they tried to win. Rebuilding through top picks and maximizing player value could still apply here but their model would certainly not describe what a lot here advocate for.

 

[Treb]

We are destined to end up with Dalibor.

I'd take it.

 

[Kriss E]

Jake is solid. Edmundson back to help stabilize things. Good vibes around team. Everyone Love Marty. A few UFAs who want to earn a new contract. Wingers galore...if Monahan and Gally both bounce-back just a little and any of the young guys step up...we will win some games.

Hope I'm wrong.

Ya I think you're looking at this with not just a glass half full, it's a full gallon.
Edmundson isn't stabilizing anything, this guy is a mid-pair D at best and for him to do well, he needs those better D guys above him. We have a very weak group on defense. Jake Allen is solid as a back up, not a starting tender.

We won some games last year too, just not a lot of them.

We aren't going to be very competitive this season. What will determine just how low we finish is more based on our injury luck vs other bottom tier teams.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I'm grading on a curve for sure but I'm about as excited as I possibly could be for a season where I'm projecting the team to finish somewhere between 3rd and 8th from the bottom. I'm not exactly "excited" to go through another likely 2 seasons with zero realistic shot at the playoffs, but there are a ton of really fun storylines with this team between young players and reclamation projects, and with St. Louis and the emphasis on offence + development this year they should be a lot more fun to watch even if they lose a bunch.

I'm really curious to see how guys like Matheson and Dach look as players who could be important pieces going forward, and of course to see how Slafkovsky looks as a rookie, and both Dadonov and Monahan are going to be fun B-plots to this year. It always sucks to go into a year knowing there's no chance at the playoffs, but it's a lot easier when there's a long term vision in place and the team is productively using the "cheap" (cheap in terms of fan pressure and expectations, and no pressure to tighten things up defensively and compete) non-competitive years as an opportunity to turn guys loose and see if someone can emerge as a strong offensive producer.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Jake is solid. Edmundson back to help stabilize things. Good vibes around team. Everyone Love Marty. A few UFAs who want to earn a new contract. Wingers galore...if Monahan and Gally both bounce-back just a little and any of the young guys step up...we will win some games.

Hope I'm wrong.

Allen and Edmundson were healthy for almost the entirety of our last 20 games and our win% was almost as worst as Ducharme's record before getting canned

We're talking ,300 hockey, while getting two easy wins at the end because the teams in question were resting their vets for the playoffs. Remove those two easy wins at the end and we only won 3 games of the previous 18, which is Ducharme bad.

Since then, we've moved Dad for Daddy, Romy for Dach, Petry for Matheson, a broken down Monahan for nothing and added Slavkovsky who might not move the needle one bit in his first steps. Along with Slaf, a bunch of greenies will be added with little experience.

I don't see how it will make us much better than we were, even without injuries.

My guess is that we'll play well for 4-6 weeks, just enough for the usual crowd to proclaim the rebuild is over. Then injuries, fatigue and dysfunction will naturally settle in, teams will figure us out quickly and by January we'll have dived way outside the playoffs. They'll have a few upticks, but then TDL will come by and we'll majorly crash after that.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

We are destined to end up with Dalibor.

If we're not drafting one of the two prodigies, I'd prefer Carlsson or Allen.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

The media is already starting on Suzuki.. it was a mistake to name a Captain this year, it’s a tank season.

 

[McGees]

Allen and Edmundson were healthy for almost the entirety of our last 20 games and our win% was almost as worst as Ducharme's record before getting canned

We're talking ,300 hockey, while getting two easy wins at the end because the teams in question were resting their vets for the playoffs. Remove those two easy wins at the end and we only won 3 games of the previous 18, which is Ducharme bad.

Since then, we've moved Dad for Daddy, Romy for Dach, Petry for Matheson, a broken down Monahan for nothing and added Slavkovsky who might not move the needle one bit in his first steps. Along with Slaf, a bunch of greenies will be added with little experience.

I don't see how it will make us much better than we were, even without injuries.

My guess is that we'll play well for 4-6 weeks, just enough for the usual crowd to proclaim the rebuild is over. Then injuries, fatigue and dysfunction will naturally settle in, teams will figure us out quickly and by January we'll have dived way outside the playoffs. They'll have a few upticks, but then TDL will come by and we'll majorly crash after that.

Besides the insane man games lost - I’m not sure who won’t have a better season than last year. I’m not saying we make playoffs but I think we finish 6th-8th worst area.

 

[OldCraig71]

The media is already starting on Suzuki.. it was a mistake to name a Captain this year, it’s a tank season.

They should have given it to David Savard to please the media if nothing else. They will pick Suzuki apart because the team is going to lose a lot games and the language question will be front and center. He has the pressure of a new contract plus playing the toughest opponents every game, I would have waited at least another year to name him captain. This is the first real mistake made by our new management.

 

[GordonGraham]

Edmundson-Matheson
Harris/Guhle-Savard
Schueneman-Wideman/Barron

Allen
Montombeau

We probably have the worst d-squad of the league if not bottom 2 and probably the worst goalie duo in the league.

Team will need 4-5 goal on most night to get a win

 

[OnceWasNot]

You're not alone. I'll probably watch many games despite not being very interested in the team on the ice this year, because the winter is long and cold and I'll be indoors and near a screen for most of it anyway, but I'm definitely more looking forward to the draft. Expecting a bottom 5 league wide finish.

 

[McGees]

I doubt a single person picked Habs to finish last before season started last year...there's always surprises but ya these teams should be bad.

 

[NobleSix]

I don't even disagree with your post but it's hard to understate how simplistic such a sentence is. There's a major difference between what you're describing and full-on tanks, like Edmonton's, Buffalo's and Arizona's, which is most here advocate for to the point of being dorks about it. A team like Tampa never tanked, kept their vets but ended up with a couple of high picks as they tried to win. Rebuilding through top picks and maximizing player value could still apply here but their model would certainly not describe what a lot here advocate for.

Well Tampa had the 1st overall pick and the 2nd overall pick in consecutive years to select Stamkos and Hedman, two major parts of their core, so I don't think it's completely accurate to suggest that they just happened to fall into a few high picks while trying to win. They did have a few years in a row where they sucked, which proved to be a rather big factor in their rebuild.

Anybody suggesting the Habs should try and lose for the next 5+ years is going overboard, yes. I agree with that. But preferring they lose for 2-3 years to stockpile picks and young players in favour of trying to win games is a very legit rebuilding strategy.

We tried to do the whole compete while drafting high thing with Galchenyuk, Sergachev (Drouin), and Kotkaniemi. It just flat out didn't work, and it just isn't as effective as building from the ground up. That strategy clearly failed, and now we're trying something new with hopefully better results.

 

[MtlSars]

I think despite a subpar defense and questionable goaltending, the on ice product will be a lot more entertaining. There's more potential offense than there was in a while and not a castrating system of dump and chase so we might get to witness some gems here and there.

Despite no real possibilities to challenge for a playoff spot, I think HuGo has set us up with a lot of interesting storylines to keep us interested despite the tank.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Well Tampa had the 1st overall pick and the 2nd overall pick in consecutive years to select Stamkos and Hedman, two major parts of their core, so I don't think it's completely accurate to suggest that they just happened to fall into a few high picks while trying to win. They did have a few years in a row where they sucked, which proved to be a rather big factor in their rebuild.

Anybody suggesting the Habs should try and lose for the next 5+ years is going overboard, yes. I agree with that. But preferring they lose for 2-3 years to stockpile picks and young players in favour of trying to win games is a very legit rebuilding strategy.

We tried to do the whole compete while drafting high thing with Galchenyuk, Sergachev (Drouin), and Kotkaniemi. It just flat out didn't work, and it just isn't as effective as building from the ground up. That strategy clearly failed, and now we're trying something new with hopefully better results.

But that's why Tampa is a good example of what I'm describing. They got Stamkos and Hedman but still kept a Lecavalier, St.Louis, Prospal, etc. during that time. This board would be SCREAMING to trade such names while the team would be bottoming out. Even Richards, who was traded in 2008 (as a 28 year-old) wasn't even traded for futures, he was traded in an attempt to find a starting goalie (26 year-old Mike Smith, who flopped in TB). Yet they ended up with what, 2 cups and like 6 deep runs in the last ten years? Hell, they even won a cup with Stamkos.

 

[HuGo Sham]

I think it's going to be a fascinating year and the habs are going to catch a lot of teams off guard, especially if all the young cornerstones like suzuki, cole, slaf and dach progress even more.
That being said, we're suspect on D too, unless the young guys progress and sill mediocre in nets.
I think if the team has some success and is a bubble team come the TDL, they'll still move out a lot of vets so that habs end up plummeting into the bottom 5 for the draft. In other words, we're not going to be buyers even if they have a surprisingly good year. We'd need a lot of injuries to really get into being chicago/AZ bad imo

 

[Milhouse40]

I don't think the Habs will have a terrible year like they had last year.

I don't think we have a worst team than we did when MSL took over and under MSL, it was basically a 71 points season pro-rated. Habs won't make the PO, our division is just too strong, but I don't think we'll see a tanking like we did last year.

Top 10 pick, most likely
Top 5 pick, doubtful

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I don't think the Habs will have a terrible year like they had last year.

I don't think we have a worst team than we did when MSL took over and under MSL, it was basically a 71 points season pro-rated. Habs won't make the PO, our division is just too strong, but I don't think we'll see a tanking like we did last year.

Top 10 pick, most likely
Top 5 pick, doubtful

71 points would've placed us 6th last.

And 71 points prorated includes the period BEFORE TDL. After TDL? We barely played above ,300, good for around 50-55 points.

Not saying it will be this bad, but to me 70-75pts would be an incredible turnaround.

 

[NobleSix]

But that's why Tampa is a good example of what I'm describing. They got Stamkos and Hedman but still kept a Lecavalier, St.Louis, Prospal, etc. during that time. This board would be SCREAMING to trade such names while the team would be bottoming out. Even Richards, who was traded in 2008 (as a 28 year-old) wasn't even traded for futures, he was traded in an attempt to find a starting goalie (26 year-old Mike Smith, who flopped in TB). Yet they ended up with what, 2 cups and like 6 deep runs in the last ten years? Hell, they even won a cup with Stamkos.

Yes I see your point. However, it could also be said that they could have won a cup sooner if they had dealt Lecavalier, St.Louis, Prospal etc. Instead they got pretty much nothing for those players outside of Callahan and a few conditional picks for St Louis and didn't win a cup with them as part of their core after the 2008 reset. If they would have traded those players in 2008, they could have set themselves up for success a lot sooner. We'll never know though, and they won two cups so they obviously did something right.

I'm not advocating trading everyone on the Habs. They have some good pieces that I believe should be held onto. They don't need to trade everyone, but they do need to trade players that Hughes and Gorton have identified as not being vital to the team's aspirations moving forward.

Vets are still important, and not everybody should be traded. With that said, it's important to stockpile picks and young players, while maximizing the value on non-vital players.

Not everyone in favour of a rebuild is advocating to trade everyone.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Yes I see your point. However, it could also be said that they could have won a cup sooner if they had dealt Lecavalier, St.Louis, Prospal etc. Instead they got pretty much nothing for those players and didn't win a cup with them as part of their core after the 2008 reset.

I'm not advocating trading everyone on the Habs. They have some good pieces that I believe should be held onto. They don't need to trade everyone, but they do need to trade players that Hughes and Gorton have identified as not being vital to the team's aspirations moving forward.

Vets are still important, and not everybody should be traded. With that said, it's important to stockpile picks and young players, while maximizing the value on non-vital players.

Not everyone in favour of a rebuild is advocating to trade everyone.

Well, they did trade Prospal for futures before re-signing him to a 4-year deal the very next offseason but Picard flopped. Whether they would have won sooner or not we'll never know, but their approach did yield a ECF as soon as 2011 (then they sucked again for the next two years) and after that it's just been a run of constant success. They have absolutely nothing to complain about. They've had it as good as anyone.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

They should have given it to David Savard to please the media if nothing else. They will pick Suzuki apart because the team is going to lose a lot games and the language question will be front and center. He has the pressure of a new contract plus playing the toughest opponents every game, I would have waited at least another year to name him captain. This is the first real mistake made by our new management.

Agreed, it was unnecessary to put this pressure on him right now, they could have waited 2 years and that also could have gave him some time to practice French to appease the media.

 

[Milhouse40]

71 points would've placed us 6th last.

And 71 points prorated includes the period BEFORE TDL. After TDL? We barely played above ,300, good for around 50-55 points.

Not saying it will be this bad, but to me 70-75pts would be an incredible turnaround.

True.....but it was also a different situation as the season was completely lost .

 

[Tetragrammaton]

I don't think the Habs will have a terrible year like they had last year.

I don't think we have a worst team than we did when MSL took over and under MSL, it was basically a 71 points season pro-rated. Habs won't make the PO, our division is just too strong, but I don't think we'll see a tanking like we did last year.

Top 10 pick, most likely
Top 5 pick, doubtful

I think you’re right… man that would suck