Dude is gonna want term at like 8-9.
NEW: Mega Mailbag 2: What Should Sharks Do With No. 2 Pick?
- Thread starter Kcoyote3
- Start date
If we're wanting a Granlund-like player to play with Smith in terms of position versatility, I'd be looking to sign Brock Nelson to whatever you think he'd take for three years or whatever. Give Smith someone with size to help more on the physical battles.
Graf, I agree and have him penciled in as one of the wingers on the 3rd line. Chernyshov and Musty need to work on their game in the AHL next year before getting promoted.
I don't see why Graf should be penciled in to the 3rd line next year. He's had a good season in the NHL, and should be given the opportunity to earn the right to play in the top 6. I can see the argument for Musty needing more time in the AHL, but Chernyshov has already played pro hockey against men and has a much more complete game. I also don't see a scenario where Will Smith is ready to be the second line center and Wennberg will drop out of the top 6. If you drop out 1(possibly 2) of the top 6 forwards going into next year it's obviously going to create a need, but I don't see it that way. I see the top 6 lining up as some derivation of:
Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Open Spot-Wennberg-Smith
The bottom 6 is a total wasteland right now, and basically needs to be entirely revamped, and so does the defense. Those are much bigger problems.
The Sharks also aren't going to be competing next year, and I'm not sure what the rush is to try and fill out the lineup.
Jargon
Registered User
I think you want them to be a significantly better team next year and to do that you need to find a way to bump Wennberg back down to 3C. I think Granlund is sort of the easiest guy to grab that helps everyone sorta slot where they should be. If we can get Granny and another top 6 guy, the offense can be okay.
This. I think it depends on your goals for next season, but if you want to actually show significant improvement, you can't have Wennberg and Graf as fixtures in the top-6. If Graf shows he can make a huge jump, great, but I wouldn't count on it. If Chernyshov comes in and grabs a middle-6 winger spot, great, but again, I wouldn't count on it.
OrrNumber4
Registered User
- Jul 25, 2002
- 16,025
- 7,254
When the core of your team is so young, the secondary and tertiary parts need to be a lot more experienced.
I think that's the ongoing problem Grier is butting up against. It's maybe part of the reason Walman and Zetterlund were traded...
I think that's the ongoing problem Grier is butting up against. It's maybe part of the reason Walman and Zetterlund were traded...
Last edited:
Patty Ice
Mighty Luca
The only high profile forward I see the Sharks having a chance at is Marner through the Marleau/Thornton connection (playing with Celebrini also but that would be the selling point for anybody). Now is that a smart move to be making? I waver on that but it sure is nice to think about having a guy like him on the team.
Nothing too special in the UFA defensemen crop. Fabbro is our best shot but he would give another borderline top 4 guy to go with Ferraro and Liljegren (he's a step below them). Ekblad, I think, is a bad investment. He would just look pretty on paper. Pionk is the prize of this crop and teams will have money for him so I don't see him as an option.
Nothing too special in the UFA defensemen crop. Fabbro is our best shot but he would give another borderline top 4 guy to go with Ferraro and Liljegren (he's a step below them). Ekblad, I think, is a bad investment. He would just look pretty on paper. Pionk is the prize of this crop and teams will have money for him so I don't see him as an option.
I wasn't expecting Toffoli or Wennberg last year and they've been solid additions. Anybody they get that is beyond a replacement level player will likely help them next year. I just have a hard time thinking they will get enough to be serious competitors. But if they manage to get decent fits that push them out of worst in the league, that's some progress at least.
I would be shocked to see marner in teal for about 100 reasons, but biggest would be:
1. Size. Yet another 6' sub 200 top 6 forward to go along with mack,smtih, and ek. Not likely.
2. Why in gods name would marner want to come to the 32nd place team? I mean I get the excitement about the future, but really? most guys who can write their own ticket would not want to jump to the dead last place team.
3. Money and timing: Grier is not going to be looking to compete for PO's next year. Sure, he'll want to make it, but now is not the time to "go for it". As such, signing a guy to 13+M only to suck for a year or two makes little sense. If they were on the cusp of something (like they finished 8-10th to last), then maybe, but not dead last with holes on the D the size of Hertl's Rooster.
And agreed that the D crop is not spectacular. Hence why filling 2-3 slots in the top 4 is next to impossible this summer and why drafting schaefer is so important.
The goal this summer should be to add, maybe, 1 top 4 D in UFA or by trade if they can. If not, fill the roster with ferraro's liljgrens and the like and pray for another walman-like splurge. However, I do think they can start to add wingers with size and should. They need at least 4 top 9 wingers to fill out the roster. The big kids are at least a year or two away, so adding some good aged, not horrifically expensive, wingers with size is a good idea.
Agreed. Another dead last result would be detrimental to the development of the team. I think there is good value in struggling early in one's career. That bad taste of a lot of losing makes winning a whole lot more delicious. However, too much losing breeds defeat, and ultimately the desire to get out. This is alot of buffalo's problem as ell as other failed/failing rebuilds. If kids dont see improvement reasonably quickly, they will be looking for other places to play where the feel they have a chance to win.
This is why i tink adding talent starting this summer is key.
Wennberg and toff are fine and they have done thier job well in mentoring and shepparding the kids. But, they need a whole lot more. On the roster right now they have 5 clear top 9 forwards (smith, celly, ek, wennberg, and toffoli). Graf is not a clear top 9. So, thats at least 4 forwards that they need to fill out a respectable crew. hard to add 4 top 9 forwards in one summer, whether by development of kids, in trade, or UFA. 2 and possibly 3 is definitely possible, but thats why they gotta start now.
I dont expect granny to come back. Love the guy and all, but he doesnt fit unless its a 1-2 year overpaid deal as a bridge. How funny would it be to get a guy, deal him as a rental for a first, resign him in summer, then deal him again for a 1st as a rental the next year. Not sure Ive ever seen that.
Guys: there is one qualifier (or disqualifier) for any player grier tries to acquire this summer. Size. SIZE. SIZE. no one will be under 6'1. no one will be less than 200 lbs.
In the last month, who has grier added:
1. Ostapchuk 6'4, 212
2. Giles: 6'5, 218
3. Desharnais: 6'7, 226
Who has Grier allowed to rot in the AHL, clearly showing he is not interested in them going forward:
1. Gushkin 5'8, 165
2. Bordeleau 5'10" 175
3. Cardwell 5'11, 180
Yes, Gush and cards got mini tryouts earlier in the year, but I truly bet that if they were bigger, they would have gotten even more of a look.
As such, I would be dead shocked to see a single addition at 6' or less or under 200. Hence why I see Boeser, Bennett, Cuylle, and the like as far more likely than granlund, marner, or the like.
Patty Ice
Mighty Luca
Toff and Wenneberg were B tier. I expect the Sharks to be in the hunt for B tier guys but a guy like Boeser is more than likely out of reach even if they dumped an absurd amount at him. It would be a mistake to do so anyways.
Jargon
Registered User
I’d like to see them finish like 7th, 8th worst. Maybe there’s like a glimmer of wildcard hope sometime during the year so the players are actively playing for something other than pride.
If we don’t fix the defense, we’ll be bottom 3 though.
Patty Ice
Mighty Luca
As I said, the only reasons would being sold by Marleau and Thornton and a future playing next to Celebrini. He may need to enjoy the suck for another year or so but if Grier brings in the right guys I can see them making some noise while the young guys are cheap.
What makes you think patty or jumbo is trying to sell him to come? They both left when the boat sunk here...
I guess anything is possible. It would definitely be a shock to me, but it would sure be exciting too to add such an exciting player.
This. Bottom 1 really. Ferraro,Liljgren, desharnais, thrun, Thompson, whoever. This is a dead last D even if Gretzky, Lemieux, Ovechkin and Crosby are your top four forwards (OK, maybe not, but still...). I mean that would have to rank amongst the worst D lineups ever iced by an NHL franchise in decades.
Patty Ice
Mighty Luca
Both are still very active promoting around the organization.
Note the 3rd guy on the left
Last edited:
Jargon
Registered User
Yep, both are part of the org in some capacity, are mentoring Mack and Will, and are obviously still Sharks to the core. Them leaving as players for one last shot to win doesn’t change that.
I can very much see both trying to get Marner to come here and be part of the new thing — if Grier asked them to. Which, like, kid is 27 and a star. If it’s Celebrini / Eklund // Smith / Marner and their wings are Cherny and Musty, let’s say, and then our future 3rd line is like Graf / Ostapchuk (we can pray) / Bystedt, and our defense is Dick/Schaefer/Muhk, that’s a big team with 4 smaller-ish but high skilled, high motor players.
I think it would work. I do think Marner coming here is still a long shot.
Yes, those were B guys. Wennberg is a servicable 3C on a respectable team. Toffoli is a serviceable, albeit aging, 2nd line Wing on a respectable team.
Boeser is a bit of a wild card, which is why I think the sharks migth terget him.
1. Barely 28, so even if they gave him 7 years, it would be 28, 29,30,31,32,33, and 34. All prime years. yes, by 32 or 33 you start declining, but it's not like hed be into the 35+ range. So, the age is fine even if they arent gunna make PO's next year, but are targeting '26-27.
2. He's 6'1, 210. Not huge, but he would instantly be the biggest top 9 forward on the sharks current roster.
3. he's had a mercurial year, and has been inconsistent. he's had just 16 pts and -15 in his last 30 games amidst the vancouver playoff push. This is a big minus for him and might make contending teams with limited cap space hesitant to lock him in. 50 pts and -25 is not the kind of performance a contending team is likely to splurge on. As such, I wonder if the sharks would be one of the only teams willing to give him $$$ and term.
4. The year before he scored 40 and has clearly shown the ability to be a top line winger in the right setting. Few 40 goal wingers with size hit the market, so you strike when the iron is hot
5. The sharks are a great landing spot for him as there is much less pressure than a place like vancouver, hell get to play with smith or celly, and be a top line winger with lots of ice time and a #1PP guy.
6. he's relatively healthy with no major lingering injuries.
7. It gives time for the winger prospects to marinate a little in the A instead of forcing them up too early. By the time Boeser would be in decline at age 32 or 33, Eklund, haltunnen, musty, cherny, lund, graf, Bystedt, etc would be around age 23-25, entering the true prime of their careers and ready to pick up the mantle.
8.. lastly, the price may be reasonable compared to similar guys. 7 yrs, 56M (8M per) would likely do it. That is a great deal given the sharks cap structure. Think about it, 8M next year is no biggy at all with smith and celly on year 2 of ELC and ek on year 3. the following year either when they have 100M in cap space and smith and celly are still ELCs and while resigning Ek may be expensive, it's not that big and easily fits. Then, 3 years from now, Boeser will be playing at age 30, right in the heart of his prime, costing 8M (which is likely to be like 6-7M equivalent cost in todays dollars), and there will be ample space to resign the big two. If Boeser ends up being a 50-60 pt player, 8M is a little high, but not unreasonable. If he thrives, and goes back to 40 goal 70+ pt player, 8M is a super steal. lastly, years 6,7, even if he declines, the today dollar cap hit is more like 5-6M, and it won't hurt much. Such a contract seems well within the long term structure that grier should be arranging.
p.s.: Such a signing also sends a very important signal to the players and the fans. Giving a guy like Boeser that kind of $$$ and term tells Smith, Celly, Ek and co that we are starting to look to win games for real. It tells the fans that we are willing to spend and willing to take a chance to start putting a quality product on the ice. it starts building a winning expecatation even if still tempered for another year or so. I think sending a message everyone that the tear down is over and the genuine build up has begun is important.
If I'm grier, Boeser is my #1 UFA forward target. He has the biggest upside per dollar spent. just the right warts that make him less attractive to top contenders. The right age. the right size. And the downside risk is minimal.
Hodge
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2021
- 5,375
- 9,930
Boeser is just a poor man's Toffoli. I like Toffoli but you don't need more than one of those guys.
Anything is possible! Put it this way, I sure wouldn't complain if they signed him...
One thing that makes your vision a bit more attractive would be if smith and celly can bulk up a bit to 6', 200 or so over the next year or two. At their current sizes, its still just too small if you add marner even with a couple beefy wingers. However, if they can get respectable in size by pulling a zetterlund who packed 220 onto his 5'1l" frame, then you got a nice longer term plan.
In today's NHL, while its possible to contend with small skilled guys, the top teams are just usually pretty darn big and the sub 200 guys are less common than the bigger guys. Marner himself has been the beneficiary of playing with much larger mates. matthews 6'3, 217. Knies 6'3, 227. Tavares 6'1, 211... Nylander is the shrimp at 6', 202. marner has never been on a line with an undersized C, so Im not sure he'd be quite as studly without someone bigger to help possess the puck, win battles, and help him play his slashing speed style of game.
What are you talking about? You mean quality vets that can score 30+ goals? Toffoli is also 5 years older.
Exactly what makes having many Toffoli's or Boeser's a bad thing?
Not to mention, you feel Boeser is a poor man's toffoli? like he's a worse player? You think?
Hodge
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2021
- 5,375
- 9,930
They're both extremely slow right-shot wingers who score goals and are passable defensively (not enough to trust with the PK or a shutdown role) but don't really contribute with playmaking, forechecking, physicality, etc. Boeser has scored 30 once in his career while Toffoli is about to do it for the third straight year hence poor man's Toffoli. Also unlike Toff, Boeser has never come close to winning anything and has spent his career playing for a horrible team.
Users who are viewing this thread
Latest posts
-
Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Waiting for the Draft and Free Agent Frenzy (26 Viewers)- Latest: platotld
-
-
-
GDT: ECSF: Game 7 - The BwO Presents: The Game After Game 6 Like We Promised - 7:30 EDT - TNT (53 Viewers)- Latest: batting1k
-
