NEW: Keep or Trade Granlund? Zetterlund’s Emergence, Will Smith & More Through 11 Games

[weastern bias]

11:07

Sheng says "HF Boards"

 

[Kcoyote3]

I love the rumors on the prospects forum and on twitter. They're always the most nefarious shit and it's almost always nothing

 

[weastern bias]

34:11

 

[timorous me]

I love the rumors on the prospects forum and on twitter. They're always the most nefarious shit and it's almost always nothing

Different type of rumor, but for a drive to Boston over the weekend my wife played a Decoder Ring podcast episode about some crazy rumors related to the '94 Canucks. It was definitely made for a non-hockey aware audience (but by a CBC reporter), but still entertaining--especially thinking about how these wild rumors took off before social media (or in the earliest days of it, if you count message boards and the like).

And it definitely made me think of the ridiculous Rick rumors and others we've seen around these parts!

 

[spintops]

Jonathan Becher sat down with us and talked about the delay in rebuilding, what went into that, why they changed their mind and the Celebrini effect

I guess he can't really say anything else, but it's still annoying that they are still acting like we were going to compete in 2022. "Based on the information we had".

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Jonathan Becher sat down with us and talked about the delay in rebuilding, what went into that, why they changed their mind and the Celebrini effect

I thought this interview was going to be boring but it was quite entertaining.

You guys didn’t help me at all with your Celebrini points prediction. The line at MGM is currently 52.5.

 

[LilLeeroy]

I guess he can't really say anything else, but it's still annoying that they are still acting like we were going to compete in 2022. "Based on the information we had".

How could they have known that the old dogs who had just gotten the 3rd and 7th pick wouldn't be making massive improvements?

Especially with wunderkind Doug Wilson Jr. at the helm.

 

[Hodge]

How could they have known that the old dogs who had just gotten the 3rd and 7th pick wouldn't be making massive improvements?

Especially with wunderkind Doug Wilson Jr. at the helm.

The bones of the team were still strong! We just needed to get the Merkleys and the Kniazevs and the Leonards and the Wiesblatts and the Bordeleaus in there to pull off the retool.

 

[Levie]

We are so insanely fortunate that the Karlsson Hertl contracts turned out ok. The late DW / JW regime was a clown show

 

[Alaskanice]

We are so insanely fortunate that the Karlsson Hertl contracts turned out ok. The late DW / JW regime was a clown show

That’s demeaning. DW built a perennial contender here. He kept that afloat for many years. He made this a place hard to play in. We reached the Stanley Cup finals.
Did it fall apart? Yes, but that doesn’t make it a clown show. All good things come to an end. This did as well.

 

[Tw1ster]

That’s demeaning. DW built a perennial contender here. He kept that afloat for many years. He made this a place hard to play in. We reached the Stanley Cup finals.
Did it fall apart? Yes, but that doesn’t make it a clown show. All good things come to an end. This did as well.

I think Levie staying “late DW/Jr era” being a clown show is quite respectful to not tarnish what they did for most of their run. I think it’s absolutely accurate that the last couple of years handing out those huge contracts to aging players could be considered a clown show if not a bit out of touch of with where the team actually was in terms of competing

 

[LilLeeroy]

That’s demeaning. DW built a perennial contender here. He kept that afloat for many years. He made this a place hard to play in. We reached the Stanley Cup finals.
Did it fall apart? Yes, but that doesn’t make it a clown show. All good things come to an end. This did as well.

The boss' son getting a job, he has no experience for, and getting rapidly promoted over people who are his senior despite no results to speak of would be clown behavior at a small car dealership.

Calling it a clown show for a billion-dollar sports franchise is being generous.

 

[Zarzh]

The boss' son getting a job, he has no experience for, and getting rapidly promoted over people who are his senior despite no results to speak of would be clown behavior at a small car dealership.

Calling it a clown show for a billion-dollar sports franchise is being generous.

The funny thing is he was so close to being seen as a top 5 drafter.

He would've taken Stank in the 2nd round in 2021 if he had a pick, that's pretty obvious. He also loved Mintyukov. You get someone to force him to take Peterka and some luck in Minty falling to 11 and he gets an amazing draft record.

 

[Munnyro]

Becher with the subtle digs on AZ was great.

 

[sharks_dynasty]

It’s very clear based on the interview that Mike Grier had a clear plan to rebuild, and the plan was endorsed by Hasso. It’s amazing that Grier has been able to execute the plan so quickly. I’m not suggesting we are done, but we literally have gotten rid of bad contracts, picked up key franchise level players, and have ample cap space to maneuver while the kids grow. That’s A+ in my book.

Just goes to show you that when you have a clear plan, ownership buys in, and you execute well, great things can happen in a short amount of time.

 

[STL Shark]

I guess he can't really say anything else, but it's still annoying that they are still acting like we were going to compete in 2022. "Based on the information we had".

I don't think that was taken in full perspective. There were good players, but I also think that when they decided on Grier as GM any notion of competing was out the window.

Think they were more thinking that going into 2021-22 as it was finally normal again coming out of COVID seasons. Should have been apparent during that season that rebuilding was the plan and then the DW illness or whatever stuff just put them in a blender with respect to the Hertl extension that Grier had to come in and undo.

What's clear here is that rebuilding has never been a Hasso issue as much as it was a DW issue. He didn't want to do a rebuild and gave every excuse under the sun as to why we couldn't do it. Don't think that sullies his reputation as a great GM for a long time, but just is objective truth. Hope his health is improving and am also glad that he's not GM anymore after a very good run.

 

[Kcoyote3]

 

[Hodge]

I've been thinking about that comparison to the 2016 Leafs since we won the lottery.

Can Granlund, Toffoli and Wennberg be our version of 2016 era Kadri, JvR and Bozak?

Can Celebrini, Smith and Eklund have the same impact Matthews, Marner and Nylander did that season?

Everything would have to break right for us but there is relatively recent precedent for a team going from last to the playoffs in one season.

 

[Gecklund]

I've been thinking about that comparison to the 2016 Leafs since we won the lottery.

Can Granlund, Toffoli and Wennberg be our version of 2016 era Kadri, JvR and Bozak?

Can Celebrini, Smith and Eklund have the same impact Matthews, Marner and Nylander did that season?

Everything would have to break right for us but there is relatively recent precedent for a team going from last to the playoffs in one season.

Kadri is by far the best player in that top group. Wennberg is definitely the worst.

Nylander and Marner were more NHL ready than Smith.

I just think this is a bit wishful thinking.

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

I've been thinking about that comparison to the 2016 Leafs since we won the lottery.

Can Granlund, Toffoli and Wennberg be our version of 2016 era Kadri, JvR and Bozak?

Can Celebrini, Smith and Eklund have the same impact Matthews, Marner and Nylander did that season?

Everything would have to break right for us but there is relatively recent precedent for a team going from last to the playoffs in one season.

In 15-16, Toronto had 69 points with a goal differential of -48. In 16-17, the Leafs earned 26 more points and improved their goal differential by +57. If the Sharks make the same improvement next season, they will earn 73 points with a goal differential of -93. That ain't a playoff team.

The 23-24 Sharks were the second worst team of the salary cap era. The road back to the playoffs is a multi-year project.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I've been thinking about that comparison to the 2016 Leafs since we won the lottery.

Can Granlund, Toffoli and Wennberg be our version of 2016 era Kadri, JvR and Bozak?

Can Celebrini, Smith and Eklund have the same impact Matthews, Marner and Nylander did that season?

Everything would have to break right for us but there is relatively recent precedent for a team going from last to the playoffs in one season.

Playoffs for the Sharks is definitely a possibility. There are many things that would have to break their way.

1. Celebrini as a 1C from day 1.
2. Smith can anchor a secondary scoring line that is heavily sheltered.
3. Wennberg can anchor a shutdown middle-6 line that isn’t a negative against top competition.
4. Sturm and the depth can provide a positive contributing 4th line.
5. The defense collectively improves with better structure and a simple game designed to get the puck to the more talented forwards.
6. The goalie tandem gets hot and stays hot through the season.

A lot of these things are plausible individually. It’s just a lot of things that all need to happen which makes it unlikely.

 

[Hodge]

Kadri is by far the best player in that top group. Wennberg is definitely the worst.

Nylander and Marner were more NHL ready than Smith.

I just think this is a bit wishful thinking.

In 2016 Kadri was coming off a 45 point season and had never scored over 50 in his career. Granlund can have a similar impact.

Smith vs. Marner is probably the weakest link of the comparison.

In 15-16, Toronto had 69 points with a goal differential of -48. In 16-17, the Leafs earned 26 more points and improved their goal differential by +57. If the Sharks make the same improvement next season, they will earn 73 points with a goal differential of -93. That ain't a playoff team.

The 23-24 Sharks were the second worst team of the salary cap era. The road back to the playoffs is a multi-year project.

True, and I don't expect us to make the playoffs, but 30+ point improvement is within the realm of possibility.

 

[gaucholoco3]

In 15-16, Toronto had 69 points with a goal differential of -48. In 16-17, the Leafs earned 26 more points and improved their goal differential by +57. If the Sharks make the same improvement next season, they will earn 73 points with a goal differential of -93. That ain't a playoff team.

The 23-24 Sharks were the second worst team of the salary cap era. The road back to the playoffs is a multi-year project.

Using last years numbers to say they can’t make the improvement to playoffs is just short sighted. This is almost a completely different roster than last year with a new coach.

Granlund, Eklund and Zetterlund are the only projected top 9 players that were with the team last season. Also Walman and Benning could be half of the top 4 D that didn’t play for the team last season. Vanecek is better than Kappo. It’s not like the Sharks lost players that they can’t replace. Every single player the Sharks lost from last season was a below replacement level player.

The coach alone can also account for a 20 point improvement.

Smith had better numbers than Eichel so why can’t he have a 50 point season like he did.

It is unlikely but as the mythbusters would say it is plausible that they can make the playoffs.

 

[Gecklund]

In 2016 Kadri was coming off a 45 point season and had never scored over 50 in his career. Granlund can have a similar impact.

Smith vs. Marner is probably the weakest link of the comparison.


True, and I don't expect us to make the playoffs, but 30+ point improvement is within the realm of possibility.

I mean I’ll be honest I also think the defense doesn’t help. Toronto did not have good defense but Sharks have like worst in recent NHL history.

I also think expecting Celebrini to put 70, Smith to put 60 and Eklund to put 60 is a bit of a stretch. Kadri put up 60 as well. That’s 4 players putting up 60 points for the leafs. I don’t think Sharks will have that.

 

[Hodge]

I mean I’ll be honest I also think the defense doesn’t help. Toronto did not have good defense but Sharks have like worst in recent NHL history.

I also think expecting Celebrini to put 70, Smith to put 60 and Eklund to put 60 is a bit of a stretch. Kadri put up 60 as well. That’s 4 players putting up 60 points for the leafs. I don’t think Sharks will have that.

Our defense got a lot better just by virtue of Burroughs no longer playing 20 mins a night and replacing sub-replacement level players like Addison and Okhotyuk with a hopefully healthy Emberson/Benning and hopefully improved Mukhamadullin/Thrun.