NEW: Keep or Trade Granlund? Zetterlund’s Emergence, Will Smith & More Through 11 Games

[LilLeeroy]

f*** that. Grier needs to play hardball. The markets been set and if Grier develops a reputation as being the GM who'll basically give players away simply so they can chase a cup then perhaps he's not the guy who should be behind our rebuild. Vegas is proving that the best way to handle business is by treating it as such. They've ushered in a new era of how teams succeed.

While rebuilding you want to be a place where guys come to rehab their value. Holding a guy hostage to try to play hardball would be moronic and prevent future FAs from potentially signing cheap 1-year deals here to be flipped at the deadline.

 

[coooldude]

They are well on their way

We got a party round here!

Well on their way to becoming Buffalo? We've only picked top 5 once and we've missed the playoffs 4 straight years, not 12 + fumbling a huge number of high prospects. Have some perspective man. Things are bad and we could definitely end up in purgatory but we aren't there yet.

Grier has proven to be pretty inept when it comes to trade especially when he’s had the advantage. None of the players he has available to trade are must have individuals which means Griers going to have to sell other GM’s hard on his list of spare parts, I wouldn’t be shocked if no one got moved

We have absolutely no proof of this, and there is literally only one scenario where Grier has "had the advantage" and pretty much everyone on these boards including NJ fans now sees the Meier trade as a pretty strong win for Grier. He did not have the upper hand with Burns, he did not have the upper hand with EK. NTC/NMC's are a huge "f*** you" to a GM.

I fully agree, I hope he takes what he can get but we know he loves playing hardball for no reason and screwing himself.

Hardball for no reason and screwing himself? You guys all realize that the trade market is a two-sided market, you need a buyer and a seller, right? You can't just go around staring other GMs in the eye until they cough up way more assets than they should have. Grier was dealt the worst hand in the league to start and he's digging his way out of it. If he screws up, we'll see it quickly, and we won't see success for years and years, but as of now, he has not screwed up, far from it, he's on a good path so far.

Watching Vegas consistently pull stars makes me realize how f***ing incompetent Doug Wilson was when the team was in win now mode.

Vegas is a completely unique situation. It's the most fun city in America if that's your style -- only competition would be MTL and NYR, maybe TOR, and all of those markets can be harder on players and are in Canadian Dollars or Canadian dollars AND a high tax situation like NY+NYC vs. no state income tax in Vegas. SJ was a miracle -- non-traditional market, great place to live for family people but not really great for young bucks, small but passionate fan base. DW completely blew this team up, but he did so after he completely built us into contenders and then sold out for years trying to win the cup. I blame him for the mess at the end but not for the success from the early 2000's to 2016.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

You never heard it because he pulled it out of his ass.

Oh yeah I forgot if it doesn’t come from you the message board NHL insider it’s bogus

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Never heard this tidbit; perhaps Carolina didn't offer a pick or wanted more retention.

I don’t remember the details exactly but the hang up was pick related

 

[TheBeard]

Vegas is a completely unique situation. It's the most fun city in America if that's your style -- only competition would be MTL and NYR, maybe TOR, and all of those markets can be harder on players and are in Canadian Dollars or Canadian dollars AND a high tax situation like NY+NYC vs. no state income tax in Vegas. SJ was a miracle -- non-traditional market, great place to live for family people but not really great for young bucks, small but passionate fan base. DW completely blew this team up, but he did so after he completely built us into contenders and then sold out for years trying to win the cup. I blame him for the mess at the end but not for the success from the early 2000's to 2016.

Doug could have done what McCrimmon is and it probably would have worked. The excitement of the location had nothing to do with making trades

While rebuilding you want to be a place where guys come to rehab their value. Holding a guy hostage to try to play hardball would be moronic and prevent future FAs from potentially signing cheap 1-year deals here to be flipped at the deadline.

Not taking a conditional 7th for a player worth more than that isn’t “holding a player hostage”.

They have the added no tax situation which will keep players or bring free agents. San Jose has always been a hard sell unless the management takes care of the players.
DW grew San Jose doing it this way. MGGM seems to be of the same ilk. I appreciate that because these guys have families and I think a team should take those type of things into mind.
That kind of stuff gets around. This is why the best players in teal tended to stay here.

I’m learning that loyalty is for the mob.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Doug could have done what McCrimmon is and it probably would have worked. The excitement of the location had nothing to do with making trades


Not taking a conditional 7th for a player worth more than that isn’t “holding a player hostage”.


I’m learning that loyalty is for the mob.

Obviously the offer is going to be more than that, but not taking the best offer on the table and giving Duclair the chance to earn a new contract would be bad for both parties.

 

[sharski]

Can't Hasso just pull a Debartolo and pay stars under the table

 

[stator]

They are well on their way

Could be. The question I'm asking myself is whether Grier can build a championship team or not. He's shown to be good at navigating out of bad contracts to start a rebuild. At some point that is going to change to where he needs to build a playoff, then into a championship team. Particularly if Sharks are able to draft Macklin.

 

[Munnyro]

There are a lot of teams getting 3rd/4ths for helping broker a deal. I get that GMMG wants to use his last slot to trade our assets but it may end up being a missed opportunity if we don't use it.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

There are a lot of teams getting 3rd/4ths for helping broker a deal. I get that GMMG wants to use his last slot to trade our assets but it may end up being a missed opportunity if we don't use it.

We'll probably have to use that to retain/maximize value on one of our UFAs though...they're pretty much all overpaid.

 

[Alaskanice]

There are a lot of teams getting 3rd/4ths for helping broker a deal. I get that GMMG wants to use his last slot to trade our assets but it may end up being a missed opportunity if we don't use it.

Still some time.

 

[YUPPY 2 7 10 11]

Can confirm Barabanov is being scratched tonight for trade-related reasons. Not sure on Duclair yet.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Could be. The question I'm asking myself is whether Grier can build a championship team or not. He's shown to be good at navigating out of bad contracts to start a rebuild. At some point that is going to change to where he needs to build a playoff, then into a championship team. Particularly if Sharks are able to draft Macklin.

As much as I call him and still believe him to be Garbage Tier, I’m hopeful his drafting is really good to make up for his lack of trade acumen. That being said it’s year 2 with him at the helm and there doesn’t seem to be a direction or road map for the rebuild so that’s concerning

Can confirm Barabanov is being scratched tonight for trade-related reasons. Not sure on Duclair yet.

His trade value is take back a bad contract and future considerations

 

[Munnyro]

Can confirm Barabanov is being scratched tonight for trade-related reasons. Not sure on Duclair yet.

"Play my baby boy. Play."

 

[Anomie2029]

If the deadline is going to be as underwhelming as it appears it's going to be, it's a big mark against Grier IMO.

I've generally liked most of his moves, but with how insufferable it has been watching this team with this coach, staying stagnant is extremely disappointing and deflating.

 

[seroes]

If the deadline is going to be as underwhelming as it appears it's going to be, it's a big mark against Grier IMO.

I've generally liked most of his moves, but with how insufferable it has been watching this team with this coach, staying stagnant is extremely disappointing and deflating.

That's not on Grier. There just isn't any players on this team contenders would want much. Certainly nothing they would pay a premium for. We're in a rebuild now and we are sucking on purpose. Several bad seasons in a row are to be expected. We just need to hope we come out of this rebuild in a few years with a team that can contend.

 

[DG93]

If the deadline is going to be as underwhelming as it appears it's going to be, it's a big mark against Grier IMO.

I've generally liked most of his moves, but with how insufferable it has been watching this team with this coach, staying stagnant is extremely disappointing and deflating.

Can't turn shit into gold...it takes two teams to tango and the Sharks have mediocre assets at best. We'll see how today and tomorrow go, but I don't think a quiet deadline is a mark against Grier whatsoever.

 

[Anomie2029]

Can't turn shit into gold...it takes two teams to tango and the Sharks have mediocre assets at best. We'll see how today and tomorrow go, but I don't think a quiet deadline is a mark against Grier whatsoever.

If the goal is to lose as much as possible and the Sharks have UFA's they don't intent on keeping, then he should not be squabbling back and forth about the return not being enough. Because it's either nothing or something.

If he can't move Duclair, then I will fault him because he gave up an NHL/AHL tweener and a 5th round pick for him.
I will fault him for not moving Barabanov last deadline when he would have actually had decent value.
I will fault him for not moving Kunin when his contract is up and the Sharks gave up a 3rd and a prospect to acquire him.

 

[DG93]

If the goal is to lose as much as possible and the Sharks have UFA's they don't intent on keeping, then he should not be squabbling back and forth about the return not being enough. Because it's either nothing or something.

If he can't move Duclair, then I will fault him because he gave up an NHL/AHL tweener and a 5th round pick for him.
I will fault him for not moving Barabanov last deadline when he would have actually had decent value.
I will fault him for not moving Kunin when his contract is up and the Sharks gave up a 3rd and a prospect to acquire him.

I agree on the Barabanov part, that was dumb...I bet there was a market there. Regarding Kunin and Duclair, not sure what the value there is for Kunin, and we may still see Duclair end up getting moved.

 

[Juxtaposer]

There are three things that I think Grier was mistaken in doing since he became GM.

1) Trading back from 11th overall. I don’t care about “more darts to throw” or any of that nonsense, Nazar/Mateychuk/Lekkerimaki were right there. All those guys project to be top half of the lineup players. Failing that, picking Bystedt/Lund/Havelid over Kulich/Firkus/Casey was a huge mistake, thought that’s less-so on Grier
2) Trading a 3rd round pick in 2023, which could have been Jacob Fowler, for Luke Kunin. This doesn’t need elaboration.
3) Not trading Barabanov at the deadline last year. I think most of us realized that he was never going to be more valuable than at that moment and now I doubt he gets more than a 4th round pick at best.

Other than that, I’m neutral on or actively like everything he’s done. Most of the recent moves I hated (turning Middleton into Tankko, re-signing Hertl instead of trading him, etc.) have been things done by Joe Will.

 

[stator]

I agree on the Barabanov part, that was dumb...I bet there was a market there. Regarding Kunin and Duclair, not sure what the value there is for Kunin, and we may still see Duclair end up getting moved.

I can see what Anome says about Duclair trade, but since he's in the top 5 for points, and 2nd for goals scored, I'd give him away for a bag of pucks (Macklin).

 

[coooldude]

If the goal is to lose as much as possible and the Sharks have UFA's they don't intent on keeping, then he should not be squabbling back and forth about the return not being enough. Because it's either nothing or something.

If he can't move Duclair, then I will fault him because he gave up an NHL/AHL tweener and a 5th round pick for him.
I will fault him for not moving Barabanov last deadline when he would have actually had decent value.
I will fault him for not moving Kunin when his contract is up and the Sharks gave up a 3rd and a prospect to acquire him.

I mean, all of these are marginal moves at best. If you have to get to a theoretical "100" to make a contender, these moves we're talking about are ones and twos. Top 10 draft picks are 20-25s. Big trades like Meier are 10-15s.

It's okay to miss on the margins but you have to hit where it counts.

 

[LadyStanley]

Duclair traded to Tampa, see thread

 

[Kcoyote3]

This is what I got for now, but likely to change a lot over the next few months:

 

[Jargon]

This is what I got for now, but likely to change a lot over the next few months:

If we got the Pens pick and didn’t get Celebrini (and ended up with defenseman) with our pick, I’d be tempted to get Eiserman at 11. We don’t really have any pure snipers in the system and I feel like he could be Smith or Eklund’s Cheechoo.