Prospect Info: New Jersey Devils Draft Simon Nemec, 2nd Overall

[DerekDevils30]

I read that as they looked into possibly trading it, didn’t like what they were hearing from other teams, and just went with their next best guy.

 

[NJDevs26]

I really don't buy it. If they ran out of time they could've called a time out.

Just like nobody wants to use their timeout in the first period of a hockey game, nobody wants to use their timeout on the #2 overall pick, and if five minutes wasn't enough for them it's likely ten wouldn't be either, this crap needs to be gamed out before the draft. Talk to x number of teams and say what's your price if we want to move down. It's not rocket science, you don't need to wait for ten teams to figure out if you want to move down or not.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I read that as they looked into possibly trading it, didn’t like what they were hearing from other teams, and just went with their next best guy.

Sounds like what happened. They tried to trade for Chucky but Calgary doesn't want to trade him.

Trading back would have lost them Nemec and they clearly wanted him.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Because the original point was about how Wright was the guy ranked over Nemec. Nico and Nolan isn't comparable because Nolan wasn't ranked over Nico. It's not the same.

Again, the point was people are getting hung up on Wright's long-time status of being #1 guy, just like what would've happened had we gone that route with Patrick. That is my point.

And no, because it's bothering me, it was pretty much split between Patrick and Nico. Just because a certain guy had Nico over Patrick, doesn't mean he was the #1 guy.

 

[Hisch13r]

In an appearance on the Cam & Strick Podcast, former Sr. Vice President of Hockey Operations, Bobby Clarke, spoke on the decision that led to the Flyers selecting Patrick second instead of Cale Makar. He is quoted as saying, “we get the second pick of the draft, and we end up drafting Nolan Patrick. None of our scouts wanted Nolan Patrick, […] they wanted Makar.”

Revisiting Flyers' Decision to Draft Patrick Over Makar - The Hockey Writers NHL Entry Draft Latest News, Analysis & More

The Flyers decision to draft Patrick over Makar in the 2017 draft has seen each team go in different directions as a result.

thehockeywriters.com

I mean, he might be lying, but I don't see why he'd do that? Where did you see they wanted Miro? Anyways, point still stands, they didn't go with their guy, they went with consensus hockey world ranking.

I forget where he was corrected but I think it was a scout or something that said it was Heiskanen and not Makar.

 

[Devs3cups]

I forget where he was corrected but I think it was a scout or something that said it was Heiskanen and not Makar.

Nice, thanks for the info, didn't know that.

 

[Edmonton East]

They didn't. They wanted Heiskanen. Still better but it wasn't Makar like Clarke said.



Because the original point was about how Wright was the guy ranked over Nemec. Nico and Nolan isn't comparable because Nolan wasn't ranked over Nico. It's not the same.



I really don't buy it. If they ran out of time they could've called a time out.

rose colored blinders....the report lines up exactly with the Devs' own words post pick last night. It wasn't a "this is our guy" type of interview, plus Nemec was very surprised himself.

It's also hilarious the draft strategy the Devs ended up following is EXACTLY what I advocated for, assuming they actually took a forward at #2. Take forward at 2, then spend rest of damn draft on D and a goalie since they have longer, more unpredictable dev curves anyway. The problem of course, is they panicked into a D at #2, and still drafted as if they had gotten Slaf. Beyond stupid, but hopefully Nemec works out (still like him).

 

[Hisch13r]

Just like nobody wants to use their timeout in the first period of a hockey game, nobody wants to use their timeout on the #2 overall pick, and if five minutes wasn't enough for them it's likely ten wouldn't be either, this crap needs to be gamed out before the draft. Talk to x number of teams and say what's your price if we want to move down. It's not rocket science, you don't need to wait for ten teams to figure out if you want to move down or not.

You get 5 timeouts. Not 1. I'm not buying it.

 

[Emperoreddy]

You get 5 timeouts. Not 1. I'm not buying it.

Nemec was the backup plan. Trading back would have cost them Nemec.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

You don't have contingency trades for such things Fitzy? It's 50-50 whether the Habs take your guy or not, you shouldn't need less than five minutes to figure out whether a trade down is viable or not.

So now you're bitching about him not being able to trade down and ignoring the important part. He was their #2 guy. Keep ignoring the important parts.

I personally don't think there was a trade to be had with Nemec as their #2 guy.

 

[NJDevs26]

So now you're bitching about him not being able to trade down and ignoring the important part. He was their #2 guy. Keep ignoring the important parts.

I personally don't think there was a trade to be had with Nemec as their #2 guy.

Of course there wasn't a trade down where they still get Nemec...that isn't the point. If you have Nemec on his own tier and clearly ahead of the next few guys you aren't even entertaining a trade down to begin with. Yes he was ostensibly their #2 but it doesn't sound like there was a lot of conviction or separation between him and the next few guys otherwise again, they wouldn't have even entertained the trade down.

And quite frankly I'm not even saying I wanted him to trade down, just that the process is f***ed if they really were flying by the ass of their pants and scrambling once the Habs took Slaf.

 

[Emperoreddy]

So now you're bitching about him not being able to trade down and ignoring the important part. He was their #2 guy. Keep ignoring the important parts.

I personally don't think there was a trade to be had with Nemec as their #2 guy.

Team had two organizational holes to fill with this pick. Either a big winger or a top RD. The winger got picked so they took the RD they liked most.

Take the player you want when you can instead of f***ing around.

 

[Forge]

I think there were very limited avenues in which you could trade back and get Nemec. Arizona has no reason to move up - it was extremely unlikely we were taking Cooley, and Arizona wanted Cooley over Wright, so there was no reason to move up. Seattle is an option, but they reportedly loved Nemec, so I'm not sure why they feel the need to move up to get Wright.. If you trade down with Philly, they take Wright, Seattle takes Nemec and you're looking at Cutter / Jiricek. Maybe that would have been worth it, maybe not, but if all they were going to get was a second or something, its likely not going to be worth losing your top guy in that scenario. But you're really only looking at trading with Seattle to possibly get your guy. If they say no, you're just screwed.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Of course there wasn't a trade down where they still get Nemec...that isn't the point. If you have Nemec on his own tier and clearly ahead of the next few guys you aren't even entertaining a trade down to begin with. Yes he was ostensibly their #2 but it doesn't sound like there was a lot of conviction or separation between him and the next few guys otherwise again, they wouldn't have even entertained the trade down.

That's why it didn't happen. They weren't going to do a trade down that cost them Nemec because that's the guy they wanted.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Of course there wasn't a trade down where they still get Nemec...that isn't the point. If you have Nemec on his own tier and clearly ahead of the next few guys you aren't even entertaining a trade down to begin with. Yes he was ostensibly their #2 but it doesn't sound like there was a lot of conviction or separation between him and the next few guys otherwise again, they wouldn't have even entertained the trade down.

And quite frankly I'm not even saying I wanted him to trade down, just that the process is f***ed if they really were flying by the ass of their pants and scrambling once the Habs took Slaf.

So what's the issue? He was their #2 guy.

 

[NJDevs26]

So what's the issue? He was their #2 guy.

The issue is the process of apparently half-assing attempting to trade down at the last minute. The issue is also WHY he was their #2 guy, not that he was their #2 guy. But if you want to blindly trust in management have at it, they still have a lot to show me.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I think there were very limited avenues in which you could trade back and get Nemec. Arizona has no reason to move up - it was extremely unlikely we were taking Cooley, and Arizona wanted Cooley over Wright, so there was no reason to move up. Seattle is an option, but they reportedly loved Nemec, so I'm not sure why they feel the need to move up to get Wright.. If you trade down with Philly, they take Wright, Seattle takes Nemec and you're looking at Cutter / Jiricek. Maybe that would have been worth it, maybe not, but if all they were going to get was a second or something, its likely not going to be worth losing your top guy in that scenario. But you're really only looking at trading with Seattle to possibly get your guy. If they say no, you're just screwed.

Agree with the post but there was no way the Devils and Flyers would have flipped picks.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

The issue is the process of apparently half-assing attempting to trade down at the last minute. The issue is also WHY he was their #2 guy, not that he was their #2 guy. But if you want to blindly trust in management have at it, they still have a lot to show me.

I mean, you have conveniently ignored my questioning to you several times why you have so much faith in the Lightning and Avs but ok.

Devils are still in the process of rebuilding, just like those teams were for years. It will come.

 

[lightsout]

If we're honest with ourselves, with Slaf off the board, this thread would be going the same way even if we did trade back.

"We traded back to get Savoie and a pick that has a 2.7% chance of ever playing in the NHL????" With Wright dropping right into our lap???"

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It would’ve been some brilliant stuff to trade down with Philly or CBJ to put Wright in our division while also potentially losing the number 2 on our board to Seattle. What exactly do you think we would be getting in return to make that the smart play?

 

[NJDevs26]

I mean, you have conveniently ignored my questioning to you several times why you have so much faith in the Lightning and Avs but ok.

You're really comparing two teams who actually have won three Cups and a bunch of playoff series with loaded rosters to a management that hasn't done jack yet? Yes I give THOSE teams a lot more benefit of the doubt and leeway to swing and miss than I do our organization (or Arizona) that hasn't done jack in almost a decade, what's the issue with that? Of course they've had their swings and misses too, everyone does but they've shown they know how to build teams - there's still a ton of work to do here.

 

[MadDevil]

We don't know how much separation there was on the Devils draft board (unless I missed a Tweet or report) between Nemec and anybody else after him. If they had him as a tier above anybody that could be had with a trade down, then it makes sense to just take him. I think more likely what happened was there was an internal debate over whether trading down was worth potentially not getting Nemec and ending up with somebody else they had ranked lower than him. I don't buy that they were just "flying by the seat of their pants" and had no clue what do when Slaf went #1.

 

[MachoDiablo]

I can't fathom this level of hand-wringing in a year where the draft didn't include runaway slam-dunk #1 and #2 guys at the top, ala what next year's draft looks like or even what the 2019 draft looked like. There was no McDavid/Matthews type up top, nor a Hughes/Kakko situation, etc.

Wright could end up being the best player from the top five in this year's crop, it's entirely possible, but so much of the commentary this year was how there wasn't a huge gap between a lot of the top guys. COVID no doubt played a role in clouding up a lot of projections, but if the vibe is "the top 4-5 guys are really bunched close together", then I'm not going to lose sleep because an organization prioritized one of said 4 or 5 guys over another.

They seemed to do what they needed: they looked into trading the pick for a top shelf player (Tchacuk), they looked into trading down but likely saw the teams beneath them being too eager to nab Nemec or simply didn't like what they were being offered back, and said "it's a year where the top guys are pretty close, take the one we like best", and that's what they did. This is not a bad thing, especially when the guy they took plays a premium position.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

The issue is the process of apparently half-assing attempting to trade down at the last minute. The issue is also WHY he was their #2 guy, not that he was their #2 guy. But if you want to blindly trust in management have at it, they still have a lot to show me.

I hope you are heading out to happy hour after work for a couple. Complaining about everything today.

 

[Devs3cups]

You're really comparing two teams who actually have won three Cups and a bunch of playoff series with loaded rosters to a management that hasn't done jack yet? Yes I give THOSE teams a lot more benefit of the doubt and leeway to swing and miss than I do our organization (or Arizona) that hasn't done jack in almost a decade, what's the issue with that?

Point is those organizations started at the same point as we are right now. Yzerman wasn't perfect with the Lightning, notably with his Connolly and Kuokkuok picks. Fitz hasn't done picks as bad as those still. That's what he means, it'll come. Even those organizations that you give the benefit of the doubt to whiffed on picks.