Speculation: New GM/Management group?

[HaNotsri]

My guess is that they go with Forton and "promote" Lindy to save face. It's both cheap and lazy but what's the fun in discussing that?

Who'd you like as GM? Coach? What should the management structure look like?

Click to read more...

 

[HaNotsri]

Coach
I'd like Babcock as a one or two year experience for our players during a retool. I hate his values and leadership but he'd give us a chance to evaluate some of the players in a different setting. Him and Torts are the kind of coaches I'd want to start a retool or soft rebuild with.

Assistant?
Maybe check if Roger Rönnberg has a nhl-out with Zurich? Would complement the terror of psycho-Babs.

President of whatever
I'd be cool with calling Lindy the president of something.

Assistant euro-GMs
Carolina just snatched Chris Abbott from HV71. Interesting options as assistant GMs from europe could be Sahlstedt (one liiga championship, has good connections in Finland, seems smart in interviews and speaks multiple languages), Evertsson (legendary GM that took his team from lower division to a shl-dynasty, still only 51) or Thomas Fröberg (did wonders in Oskarshamn, took Luleå straight to the top).

 

[debaser66]

With Pegula on the wheel its mostly drunk driving in his own yard

 

[HaNotsri]

With Pegula on the wheel its mostly drunk driving in his own yard

Does he have skates on to pump himself up?

 

[LongWayDown37]

Adams is the worst. I thought Granato was the problem with the defense. Or Skinner. Hey, lets sign up for 6 years on the cap for a 40-goal scorer who won't play for us anymore. What a total disaster this team and its management continue to be.

 

[Fjordy]

Adams of course should go, Ruff I don't know, but is he that good now and why did he come alone? Their best season in recent years was the season with Granato, who allowed them to do what they wanted. The carrot is always better than the stick, even though the players talk about responsibility and that they need a tough coach, they themselves do not know what they need and they certainly should not do it.

I am against trading our best players who are not showing good play now, it is a road to nowhere and we have already been through this. It is possible to make some trades to shake up the team.

 

[Chainshot]

Coach
I'd like Babcock as a one or two year experience for our players during a retool.

Never. I just... no. No f***ing way.

 

[HaNotsri]

Never. I just... no. No f***ing way.

I can accept that. He's a psycho and I don't believe in his leadership but his hockey mind seems good. After what he did to Franzén and others I understand if it would be the final nail in the coffin for some fans.

I have a suspicion that many of our players are dumb and then coaching won't help anyway. Being dumb makes you slow to adapt and learn new things which means you will always be a step behind. My thought with Babcock as an interim coach would be to cleanse the roster of players too stupid to even play his straightforward hockey.
If Torts was available he'd be no. 1 on my interim list.

 

[BFLO]

We first need this team to crash and burn so hard that it forces Pegula to re-think his ownership/management strategy. Until that happens I don't think it matters who sits in the GM chair.

Cross posting myself from the Kevyn Adams GM thread:

I’m kind of hoping the team comes in last place this year. It would be Adams’s second unintentional last place finish.

Which might be embarrassing enough for Terry to rethink his strategy of how he runs the Sabres. Terry needs to hire a good, experienced hockey executive to run this thing, and they need autonomy. No more of this “we as the owners need to feel heard by the GM” bullshit.

Let the hockey people run the hockey team. Sit back on your yacht and enjoy watching your quality hockey team win games in the playoffs. Stop interfering and ruining this team.

 

[May Day 10]

What is it going to be? When the heat gets too high and they absolutely have to do something:
Adams to team president/VP
Karmanos to GM (but Adams still helps)
Ruff will assume a front office roll this year, and Appert will be HC.
We will have to wait 4 years for this to prove out as being a failure until we can hope again that Pegula gets it, or is physically incapable of continually ruining this franchise. Maybe by then, the franchise will be ruined forever (lease expiring soon, fan apathy, no other fans really care about the irrelevant Sabres)


What it should be?
Adams fired this morning along with Jakubowski. Id fire Ruff, but at this point, he deserves more dignity than being canned after 6 games.

Big press conference with Pegula. He introduces either Poile (or Dudley if they can get him from FLA) as the team President. Someone with massive credibility and experience. It is explained this person has full authority, autonomy, and budget to build a championship-standard hockey program from the top-down, starting with a GM search. Many other pink slips are announced to save the new president from dirty-work like Crowe, Nightingale, Forton, and the rest of the cockroach grifters involved in this perpetually. Pegula makes it clear he is only an observer and will give hockey ops space.
*I realize Poile is 74 and Dudley is 75. The role is purely a highly compensated architect role. Essentially they can set it up the structure and process, use their rolodex, delegate, sit back, and count their money.

It is made clear that the standard for this franchise is championship caliber and to be at the top of the NHL from this point forward, this time for real.

 

[JLewyB]

Ownership needs to change. Im almost sure they have budget constraints. They definitely did during the Covid years with efficiency being our motto. This is a long way of saying that im not sure if any GM wouldve done any better. Going forward, Adams needs to go. We need a GM with some balls to tell the owner to f*** off

 

[jc17]

What is it going to be? When the heat gets too high and they absolutely have to do something:
Adams to team president/VP
Karmanos to GM (but Adams still helps)
Ruff will assume a front office roll this year, and Appert will be HC.
We will have to wait 4 years for this to prove out as being a failure until we can hope again that Pegula gets it, or is physically incapable of continually ruining this franchise. Maybe by then, the franchise will be ruined forever (lease expiring soon, fan apathy, no other fans really care about the irrelevant Sabres)


What it should be?
Adams fired this morning along with Jakubowski. Id fire Ruff, but at this point, he deserves more dignity than being canned after 6 games.

Big press conference with Pegula. He introduces either Poile (or Dudley if they can get him from FLA) as the team President. Someone with massive credibility and experience. It is explained this person has full authority, autonomy, and budget to build a championship-standard hockey program from the top-down, starting with a GM search. Many other pink slips are announced to save the new president from dirty-work like Crowe, Nightingale, Forton, and the rest of the cockroach grifters involved in this perpetually. Pegula makes it clear he is only an observer and will give hockey ops space.
*I realize Poile is 74 and Dudley is 75. The role is purely a highly compensated architect role. Essentially they can set it up the structure and process, use their rolodex, delegate, sit back, and count their money.

It is made clear that the standard for this franchise is championship caliber and to be at the top of the NHL from this point forward, this time for real.

There were non-buffalo people who said the sabres finally have a "real coach" when ruff was hired. The idea that another round of firings and bringing in a "respected hockey guy" would give the team credibility is just not a reality, at least not immediately. If they clean house any time soon, its just going to look like an even bigger gong show.

The part I do agree with is that the full staff needs a performance evaluation, and this is a tough subject because we really don't know what goes on behind closed doors, so I'll give the disclaimer that I'm talking out of my butt here.

All signs point to Kevyn being good at collecting input from all areas. Scouting staff, analytics staff, coaching staff, etc. He's not Tim Murray, just doing whatever he wants, it seems like he is truly the final decision maker based on all the inputs. And honestly I don't have a problem with that, it might not be a bad way to operate. But in order for it to work, the subject matter experts who are providing the info have to be really good at what they do. Are ours? Were they pounding the table for a top 6 forward and he ignored them? probably not.

There seems to be too many guys that haven't done anything to earn the front office positions they sit in. The first 2 minutes of the 2020 draft behind the scenes video is something I think about way too often, because to me it's the microcosm of this:

I know its a small snapshot, but dear lord you get more substantial analysis from guys a few beers deep at the local bar. Like were these actual conversations that went towards our selection, or staged for the camera for content? I hope the latter. Afterwards Crowe gets re-assigned, not sure what ever qualified him to start with, don't know why beamish who was an "analytics" guy at the time is giving his thoughts on Quinn's playmaking abilities, etc. Same with Nightingale. The raw goal total talk from Devine.....I promise this is not an anti-quinn hijack post, it's just one of those things that stuck in my head. I think he can still be a great player, its more about the process that got us there. And I know that group hit on Peterka, but idk, I just don't have much confidence that we're getting the support staff talent across the board.

And I guess the more I write I find myself faulting Adams because its his staff to build

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Adams is the worst. I thought Granato was the problem with the defense. Or Skinner. Hey, lets sign up for 6 years on the cap for a 40-goal scorer who won't play for us anymore. What a total disaster this team and its management continue to be.

Skinner is just the latest act of a franchise that just lacks professionalism. And that's the main issue. And it comes from the top. And by that I mean Terry Pegula.

For starters, the Sabres bet against themselves at the time to give him $9 million x 8 years. It was plainly obvious from the start. No other team could even go to eight years. But these idiots panicked because of the pressure — they can't take the pressure in a small market town like Buffalo with one sports radio station and a crappy newspaper with an idiot columnist covering hockey.

So what do they do? Instead of being professional and accepting the contract is a sunk cost, they want to get rid of it for no apparent reason and penalize their cap for three more years at $2.44 million when Skinner clearly was as good or better than anything we would sign. (If it was about saving $7 M in real money, that would be upsetting but at least show they have a brain. Please admit that, I will feel better.)

I saw people, led by the idiot columnist, who, let's not forget, contended Ryan O'Reilly had no value and was untradeable because of a $7 million contract, buy into some crazy narrative that Skinner coming off 24 goals and 46 points and a -2 and one season removed from his best was a serious problem for the Sabres.

Honestly, this was an absolute joke. I get Olofsson because he was not signed. I will says Sabres use of him was terrible. But dumping came with no penalty.

There is an incompetence with this team — and a cowardice — that an only be solved from the top. You need a no-nonsense guy like a younger Brian Burke. But the problem is Pegula won't be convinced he needs that. Fire Adams all you want, Pegula is not brining in someone and giving him more power.

People talk about not going to games? You are giving Pegula ammunition to move the team if he doesn't get his lease improvements by the time the lease is up in 2027.

My guess is chants will start now for "Fire Kevyn" and the chant should be "sell the team" or something like that to shake Terry up. Maybe another form of embarrassment will work. In his 14th year of no playoffs, Terry is not shaken enough to hire a team president and get out of his daily involvement with team. (Please don't tell me he is not involved. Kevyn has let it slip he talks to Terry every day miniumum.)

 

[May Day 10]

There were non-buffalo people who said the sabres finally have a "real coach" when ruff was hired. The idea that another round of firings and bringing in a "respected hockey guy" would give the team credibility is just not a reality, at least not immediately. If they clean house any time soon, its just going to look like an even bigger gong show.

The part I do agree with is that the full staff needs a performance evaluation, and this is a tough subject because we really don't know what goes on behind closed doors, so I'll give the disclaimer that I'm talking out of my butt here.

All signs point to Kevyn being good at collecting input from all areas. Scouting staff, analytics staff, coaching staff, etc. He's not Tim Murray, just doing whatever he wants, it seems like he is truly the final decision maker based on all the inputs. And honestly I don't have a problem with that, it might not be a bad way to operate. But in order for it to work, the subject matter experts who are providing the info have to be really good at what they do. Are ours? Were they pounding the table for a top 6 forward and he ignored them? probably not.

There seems to be too many guys that haven't done anything to earn the front office positions they sit in. The first 2 minutes of the 2020 draft behind the scenes video is something I think about way too often, because to me it's the microcosm of this:

I know its a small snapshot, but dear lord you get more substantial analysis from guys a few beers deep at the local bar. Like were these actual conversations that went towards our selection, or staged for the camera for content? I hope the latter. Afterwards Crowe gets re-assigned, not sure what ever qualified him to start with, don't know why beamish who was an "analytics" guy at the time is giving his thoughts on Quinn's playmaking abilities, etc. Same with Nightingale. The raw goal total talk from Devine.....I promise this is not an anti-quinn hijack post, it's just one of those things that stuck in my head. I think he can still be a great player, its more about the process that got us there. And I know that group hit on Peterka, but idk, I just don't have much confidence that we're getting the support staff talent across the board.

And I guess the more I write I find myself faulting Adams because its his staff to build

Overall, I feel like the organization is likely broke and behind the times. A large majority of the hockey management staff have gotten all (or almost all) of their experience working for this franchise, who has achieved historic ineptitude, and it seems to continue into perpetuity.

Adams is good at collecting input from various sources, great. But what are these sources? College grads/NCAA products like Crowe, Nightingale, etc. These guys know little outside the way the Sabres have done things, which is wrong.


The entire league, coaches, staff, and more importantly, the NHLPA sees this organization as a gong show (young players have no recollection at all of the Sabres being anything more than a bottom-feeder). Kevyn Adams uses the Buffalo area as an excuse and breathes life into that every chance he gets. Players dont want to play here, maybe its too cold, its not NYC, etc. Look, I get Buffalo is challenged for being a destination, but if the team is good, and players can succeed, produce, and earn, plenty of players would be open to coming here. It is self-inflicted.
If my kid was an 18 year old, and definitely getting drafted, I would be privately devastated if the Sabres drafted him.


This is why, IMO, it is important to make a seismic change at the top and essentially re-brand the organization to the outside hockey world. I do think the structure of everything needs to be fixed, and it was all stale in 2011 when Pegula took over. The organization was pretty stale and nepotistic going back to even the Rigas ownership. It is time to change and bring the organization up to an NHL standard.

 

[Tatanka]

Not gonna happen. Next topic.

 

[TageGod]

If their 5v5 numbers stay really good, the wins will come around more often than not.

 

[SabresFan26]

Fire KA/Karmanos/Forton/Jakubowski/Devine

Fire Marty Wilford, Seth Appert, Matt Ellis, Mike Bales

Keep Lindy as HC (if we would promote him to President, I'd take Quenneville)

We need hire someone with experience in a winning organization.

Hire President of Hockey David Poile

Hire GM Paul Fenton (Assistant Panthers GM) worked with Poile

Keep Lindy as HC for 2 years but hire a good assistant with experience and groom him for the HC
Jay Leach (Associate HC), a Syracuse native too, coaches defense, promote Vinny Prospal to coach the forward and PP.

 

[TehDoak]

I mean, the problem remains at the top. The Pegulas need to become traditional owners. As in, aware of what is going on, but largely removed from day to day operations.

The Adams hiring was really the encapsulation of what the Pegulas think about managing a hockey club. It's not hard and anyone can do it. He even said during the press conference that the '3 of us' referring to Adams, himself, and Krueger, could 'figure it out'. (I'm not joking, he actually said this).

Terry needs to realize that this isn't some fantasy camp where he gets to play GM. He needs to hire someone who has done this before and trust them with the process. Let them hire a new GM, let them build out a legit front office staff.

I'm not sure with what the difference is between the Bills and the Sabres, why he can be mostly hands off there versus how things are handled here, maybe he simply feels like he knows more about hockey than football.

Until the owner decides that he needs someone competent in charge running the team, nothing is going to change. Replacing Adams with another 1st time GM who has to make a daily report of everything to the Pegulas is going to lead us down the same road.

 

[sabremike]

Never. I just... no. No f***ing way.

Counterpoint: I'd love for them to hire Babcock so that he can make these gutless spoiled brats every bit as miserable as they've made all of us, they deserve no better.

 

[Club]

I might be in the minority but I actually kinda like Forton, Karmanos & Ventura

 

[HaNotsri]

If their 5v5 numbers stay really good, the wins will come around more often than not.

I'm not sure, teams with good analytics that make loads of mistakes will likely win less than the numbers predict. We have too many low iq players.

 

[Fjordy]

I might be in the minority but I actually kinda like Forton, Karmanos & Ventura

Forton idolizes Adams, I don't like that. I'd rather have a GM who isn't in the organization right now. Find your Zito.

 

[HaNotsri]

Counterpoint: I'd love for them to hire Babcock so that he can make these gutless spoiled brats every bit as miserable as they've made all of us, they deserve no better.

Yeah I'm also at the point where I want to watch punishment. Probably not a great plan to become a winning team but Babcock trying to get Cozens to skate in the right direction would be fun to watch.

 

[Club]

Forton idolizes Adams, I don't like that. I'd rather have a GM who isn't in the organization right now. Find your Zito.

I would love Zito. But I think part of that love affair is that KA let's everyone do their job which is why Forton got so emotional in that post draft presser a cuppa seasons ago. Didn't get that with Jason or Tim

But I do, overall, think Pegulas should sell

 

[HaNotsri]

I might be in the minority but I actually kinda like Forton, Karmanos & Ventura

I like Forton as well. You can follow his logic and he's not acting like Adams.

Adams is a total imposter. His angry press conference is the most fake thing I've seen.