Speculation: New Arena/Management Update

[Murf]

More money, yes - in certain areas. There isn't any more money in Gilbert, Tempe, Mesa, or Paradise Valley than there is where I live in Peoria, though.

You want to say Tempe or Mesa, fine. Gilbert you are wrong by about 25%. Paradise Valley - are you high?

 

[XX]

I’m getting the impression that most people who live in the east valley still think everything west of the western stretch of the L101 is mostly agriculture fields.

It's about as interesting.

 

[Jormungandr]

God the east vs west stuff kills me. It's such a negligible distance, yet it's often seen as a huge distinction to live a few miles away from another city. So weird.

its making the thread unreadable.

 

[Ebb]

its making the thread unreadable.

I can see the conflict. An arena near Tempe would be 2270 miles from me while the Glendale Arena is 2286 miles; that last 16 miles is a killer.

 

[TheLegend]

It's about as interesting.

As is all the whining about long drives and such.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

You guys are way too focused on North Scottsdale. Gilbert and Tempe are both top 100 US cities in terms of growth. That's a huge market that is just out of reach by being in Glendale

 

[RABBIT]

Checking for news updates in #hatethread be like

 

[XX]

As is all the whining about long drives and such.

It's not whining, even though 'whining' represents discomfort with something, not an ideal feeling to conjure up when trying to sell a relatively expensive entertainment product. This isn't the military nor are we changing the world here, it's a (mostly) shitty hockey team we're talking about. People are going to make the evaluation as to whether or not the travel and money is worth it because they've got better shit to do. That's how you end up with poor attendance in a metro area so large There aren't enough HF level Kool-Aid drinkers to keep the franchise afloat. The recent turn into watchable territory is great, but the franchise can always do better monetarily.

The team studied the issue and came to the same conclusion any reasonable person would; there's more money - both corporate and personal - in the east valley and having a more central location (that just happens to be on top of said money) is a better way to have a more stable consumer base. The west side has not grown in size or in income as was projected prior to the bust and commuting to the area remains a problem. Though out of town business is probably not the bread and butter of the franchise, being in Scottsdale or thereabouts is a much easier sell than Glendale for visitors.

This is a business decision... if it comes to pass. It would be nice if people could check their insecurities at the door and realize it's basically this or the team is gone.

 

[Jamieh]

You guys are way too focused on North Scottsdale. Gilbert and Tempe are both top 100 US cities in terms of growth. That's a huge market that is just out of reach by being in Glendale

Aren't Goodyear, Surprise, and Buckeye all ahead of both Gilbert and Tempe in terms of population in last few years?

 

[Puck possession wins]

Look, I was born and raised here on the West Side and I don't give a damn where they put the arena ... so long as it's either accessible to the light rail or light rail expansion is guaranteed in the building of the arena.

Lack of having a metro system to games is another killer for GRA.

I've been to games in DC at Capital One Arena, and literally all you have to do is get on one line and maybe transfer at 1 or 2 stops (depending on the line) and you end up outside the arena at it's designated metro stop.

I want an arena just as bad as everyone else, but I'll be damned if there isn't a light rail station attached to it.

 

[doaner]

Hey, you guys remember los arcos? Yeah, me neither.

 

[azcanuck]

Aren't Goodyear, Surprise, and Buckeye all ahead of both Gilbert and Tempe in terms of population in last few years?

Yea and I bet per capita income is way lower and less interested in an expensive niche sport.

 

[Jakey53]

Yes. Not as often as I’d travel 20 for a decent team though.

They could be walking distance and perennial cup contenders and you could give me the tickets for free and I still wouldn’t make it to 41 games a year, though. If I was single or retired, sure! But I’ve got stuff I gotta do. Two young kids, and trying to scratch and claw my way up the professional ladder. Whether it’s not enough time or not enough energy, I don’t have what it takes to be a full season ticket holder. Not right now.

No need to explain to me. I have been there, done that. It's not easy, but the end result is worth it. Like my dad always told me, work and family before pleasure.

 

[cobra427]

It's not whining, even though 'whining' represents discomfort with something, not an ideal feeling to conjure up when trying to sell a relatively expensive entertainment product. This isn't the military nor are we changing the world here, it's a (mostly) ****ty hockey team we're talking about. People are going to make the evaluation as to whether or not the travel and money is worth it because they've got better **** to do. That's how you end up with poor attendance in a metro area so large There aren't enough HF level Kool-Aid drinkers to keep the franchise afloat. The recent turn into watchable territory is great, but the franchise can always do better monetarily.

The team studied the issue and came to the same conclusion any reasonable person would; there's more money - both corporate and personal - in the east valley and having a more central location (that just happens to be on top of said money) is a better way to have a more stable consumer base. The west side has not grown in size or in income as was projected prior to the bust and commuting to the area remains a problem. Though out of town business is probably not the bread and butter of the franchise, being in Scottsdale or thereabouts is a much easier sell than Glendale for visitors.

This is a business decision... if it comes to pass. It would be nice if people could check their insecurities at the door and realize it's basically this or the team is gone.

Agreed, its about economics and where the money is. Phoenix is different in that folks live here for the lifstyle and are less willing to put up with a hassle like a long drive. My business, partner runs it, has a 30 game season ticket package in Chicago and people are more willing to do the 1 hour commute, deal with more traffic, cold weather, to see a hawks game. People live in Phoenix because they don't want to put up with stuff like that. It is what it is.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

I love you guys acting like all these west valley suburbs are full of peasants. Have you ever seen some of those neighborhoods?

 

[Jamieh]

I love you guys acting like all these west valley suburbs are full of peasants. Have you ever seen some of those neighborhoods?

Phoenix area doesn't fit the typical income narrative, there is plenty of money in many West side suburbs where earnings aren't that high. Retired folks skew the results.

 

[TheLegend]

I love you guys acting like all these west valley suburbs are full of peasants. Have you ever seen some of those neighborhoods?

They all look like Maryvale.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

West Side Story

 

[CNYCrunchfan1]

I hate to tell you guys but the whole valley pretty much looks the same...one big dust bowl. No matter where it is, if they win people will show if they suck again they won't.

 

[cobra427]

I love you guys acting like all these west valley suburbs are full of peasants. Have you ever seen some of those neighborhoods?

Thats not the case, plenty of nice areas on the west side and more affordable too. The Coyotes have not developed a season ticket base in the west valley, its still 75% or more east side (what they say anyway). The Coyotes/west side have had 15 years to figure it out, it just hasn't worked.

 

[rt]

Aren't Goodyear, Surprise, and Buckeye all ahead of both Gilbert and Tempe in terms of population in last few years?

If you combine all three of Goodyear, Surpise and Buckeye you get Gilbert. Without the wealth and education. Gilbert is significantly younger, more educated, and more financially well off per-capita. I looked all of this up not long ago. I think on the census site. I’m on mobile now and cant fact check myself. I may look like an idiot when I do, but I’m 95% confident on all of that.

Pretty sure if you look at an average NHL fan and an average Gilbert resident, you’re looking at the same person.

EDIT: these keep coming out more inflammatory than intended. I’m become such a lazy writer. Goodyear, Surpise and Buckeye are not without wealth and education. Despite my lazy wording, that’s not what I meant. Just that if I recall correctly Gilbert is one of the wealthier towns in the valley, I think ranked 2nd in bachelor degrees per capita behind Scottsdale, and is maybe the youngest large city. I’m really talking out of my ass until I can look this stuff up again.

 

[rt]

I love you guys acting like all these west valley suburbs are full of peasants. Have you ever seen some of those neighborhoods?

I’m sure it’s nice. Like I said, I’m totally ignorant. I haven’t spent any actually time in the West Valley since about 2005 when it was all springing up out of nowhere.

I’m just recalling census data. The east side is undeniably more wealthy. I think I posted all of this once ina really long post. I’ll look for it.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

If you combine all three of Goodyear, Surpise and Buckeye you get Gilbert. Without the wealth and education. Gilbert is significantly younger, more educated, and more financially well off per-capita. I looked all of this up not long ago. I think on the census site. I’m on mobile now and cant fact check myself. I may look like an idiot when I do, but I’m 95% confident on all of that.

Pretty sure if you look at an average NHL fan and an average Gilbert resident, you’re looking at the same person.

That settles it. The arena will be built in Gilbert! (or somewhere else, maybe)

 

[rt]

That settles it. The arena will be built in Gilbert! (or somewhere else, maybe)

Haha. No, no, no. The far East Valley is nearly as bad an idea as the far West Valley was. The closer to Scottsdale the better. That’s the simple rule, I think.

 

[rt]

Easy site to use. Way too hard on mobile, though.

U.S. Census Bureau QuickFacts: Scottsdale city, Arizona; Gilbert town, Arizona; Phoenix city, Arizona

 

[LuckyNumber11]

I truly have no bias as to east or west side, I'm in central valley (so the actually shit part) and I have friends and family on either side, it's my third year down here. Both have really nice parts, the west side is of course still developing, and the east side has the crown jewel in Scottsdale. I look at the high schools (as I've been a high school baseball coach) and the neighborhoods I've driven by and driven through. As well as high school facilities. Both have some areas that I consider kind of dumpy as well. I would think the west side's income data is generally skewed by snow birds as there are much older communities over there.
I put the low attendance blame far more on the Coyotes poor marketing, coupled with relocation concerns and poor play than I do location. Like I said in an earlier post, I think that the location proposed would make attendance marginally better, more due to population numbers than anything else.