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Player Discussion Neal Pionk: Part II

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I think this kid is terrible. And we play him 25 mins a game. I don’t get it. He’s always pinned in his zone.

If he’s a long term part of the top 4 and we blow out a DeAngelo we are already starting the rebuilding of the defense off on the wrong foot.
 
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Best defensive game we’ve played in months was against the isles in Brooklyn with Pionk in the pressbox. I see no reason to force him back in especially after a complete game win like that.
 
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ManUtdTobbe said:
Remember when i (and others with me) said that one of Neal Pionks worst issues is that he has no gap Control and that he completely gives up the blueline?

Here we have some actual data that suggests that he's actually the worst D-man in the League when it comes to defending the blueline.

Click to expand...


At least he isn't the worst on that list. :D
 
Look at all the worthless blueliners on that list...

When we rank defensemen alphabetically Pionk is in the bottom half of the league.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
Remember when i (and others with me) said that one of Neal Pionks worst issues is that he has no gap Control and that he completely gives up the blueline?

Here we have some actual data that suggests that he's actually the worst D-man in the League when it comes to defending the blueline.

Click to expand...

 
I have to say, I have been a Pionk backer from the beginning, and I still think he has more to offer than some folks will credit, but yeah... he's been pretty bad for all of 2019.

The overall quality of the team's play hasn't helped, but he deserves his own fair share of the blame. Need to see more building on the flashes we saw in 2018, and less living up to the numbers the analytics-focused crowd has been posting for months now.
 
Brooklyn Rangers Fan said:
The overall quality of the team's play hasn't helped, but he deserves his own fair share of the blame. Need to see more building on the flashes we saw in 2018, and less living up to the numbers the analytics-focused crowd has been posting for months now.
Click to expand...
For a while, he was on a pace for around 45-50 points. That's not nothing. His injury may be contributing more to his ineffectiveness. That said, he is woefully miscast as a top pair defenseman. I do think that there are some things to work with here.
 
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True Blue said:
For a while, he was on a pace for around 45-50 points. That's not nothing. His injury may be contributing more to his ineffectiveness. That said, he is woefully miscast as a top pair defenseman. I do think that there are some things to work with here.
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He's done nothing (or more accurately, little) at even strength all season.

After his first 22 games he was on an 82 game pace for about 15 ES and 40+ PP points. The next 20 games (before he was hurt) was an 82 game pace for about 18 ES points and about 4 PP points.

15-18 ES points is about what you hope for from non-offensive D-men, the Dan Girardi and Marc Staal's of the world. 40+ PP points would put him in rare company, only six D have scored that many since the turn of the century. 4 PP points, which breaks down to 1 PP assist in over 30 minutes of PP time, is....bad.

So I guess whether his PP abilities are closer to the first 22 games (historically great) or the next 20 (awful) remains to be seen. But he doesn't do much offensively at ES. Yet.
 
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Heavy righty shot so teams will want him . Could sell high even w recent struggles? Although they may aswell keep letting him develop
 
May as well let him develop. He just needs to be insulated, he is playing way over his head. Just get him back on the third pair.
 
Love this kid’s skill set offensively, he’s only 23 and basically in his first year. The D side will come imo.
 
Vinny DeAngelo said:
Unbelievably hot and cold second year... He's been good the past 10 or so games...

Lets hope he can be consistently good as he gains experience
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I agree but “good the past 10 or so games” is slightly generous in my opinion. In almost every one of those 10 games, I wanted to both clap for him and rip my hair out simultaneously. Maybe the last two or three games he’s been mainly good, but I haven’t been paying much attention. If he can become a good 3rd pairing d-man on a competitive team, who can play on either power play unit, that would be great. My expectations have tempered a bit.
 
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Pionk's a bit like Torey Krug when he came into the league--only Krug had a lot more stable team defense he could fit into. There are plenty of Bruins fans that don't like Krug all that much. Neal was overplayed in the first half of the season. It seems the reasons for that were 1. Shattenkirk wasn't back to speed 2. questions the coaching staff had about DeAngelo 3. McQuaid's early season injury and 4. the win streak we had early in the season which revolved somewhat around Pionk's point production.

Quinn and staff gave DeAngelo a lot of tough love this year but Tony's responded really well. It's almost like the Rangers decided to throw Pionk into the deep end of the pool and Tony got the wading end and while Neal eventually started to drown--Tony eventually started to swim. There's Shattenkirk's part in this too. He can be very good and he can be very bad--all in all though he's not been worth the contract he signed. Being the vet presence should mean something but in his case as far as I can tell it doesn't mean much at all.

Tony's averaging over 19 minutes now. That's an upturn to regular top 4. If he wants to be a 20+ guy he's going to need to work himself into the penalty kill rotation which counts significantly towards Pionk's extra ice time.
 
I think an offseason of training and going over his game he can have a really solid 3rd year, especially if he's deployed correctly. Give him 3rd pair minutes and we'll most likely go back to loving him. He can't play PK that's completely misusing him.
 
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To me Pionk is just a bad hockey player, at least at the NHL level. He was undrafted for a reason. He has been painful to watch for much of the season as he seems to lose every battle in his own zone. He has a mediocre skill set outside of some decent offensive ability, which is the one thing we don't need from our RHD given ADA & Shatty. To say he can survive as a 3rd pair means he is wasting a spot for a prospect who actually can evolve into more than that. The biggest need this team has is quality top 4 dmen; we need to play dmen prospects who have at least a reasonable chance of making it to that level. We already have a number of prospects (Lindgren, Day, etc.) who should make it to 3rd pair. Also we have other smallish good skating prospects - Lundquist, now Newell, hopefully Adam Fox soon. I would trade Pionk if there is a market for him. I think it would be trading him at peak value.
 
Chytilmania said:
I think an offseason of training and going over his game he can have a really solid 3rd year, especially if he's deployed correctly. Give him 3rd pair minutes and we'll most likely go back to loving him. He can't play PK that's completely misusing him.
Click to expand...

He needs to improve his quickness, both physically and mentally.

There are ways for him to work on the former, the latter is going to be tough but improving his actual physical quickness can help buy him that extra half second or more to make a play.

I’d rather move him in a package to get something, be that a higher draft pick, Fox, another player, whatever.
 
Its not Pionks usage that was the problem, it's Pionks game.

He was bad at ES (regardless of the role or minutes) horrible on the PK and was not particularly good on the PP outside of one stretch early in the season.

Because Pionk is skilled and the team is going nowhere, it makes sense to give him every chance to improve his game next season. But Pionk needs to work on the holes in his game or he wont have a top 6 job in the NHL in any role. If this season with Quinn was about work ethic and engagement, next season needs to be about execution and on ice improvement.
 
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I actually think he played one of his better games against NJ. having said that I think he's an awful player that is also being overplayed because he tries hard. I think he's an AHLer quite frankly. At best a raphy diaz that kind of hangs around waivers or in and out of lineups. he has no business playing the mins or the games he's played this year at this level
 
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