Player Discussion: Neal Pionk Part 2

[DRW204]

I also think the Jets will quickly become a feeder system to bigger market (or more desirable) teams, if they don't handle pretty much everything in a "classy" way. Like I would have told Trouba to eff off if he doesn't want to build something here, but they handled his situation correctly. And honoring pretty much all of the ex-players the right way, goes a long way too.

the Jets and probably most (if not all) NHL teams would have handled trouba and his wife's situation cordially compared to how you just described it.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

the Jets and probably most (if not all) NHL teams would have handled trouba and his wife's situation cordially compared to how you just described it.

Yes.

Of course, no other team is telling him to eff off. No kidding...

I doubt that every other team is going to acquiesce to his situation (or demands) though.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Lots of interesting discussion here.

I do think there's a decent delta between "Throw Pionk out on his arse and the team can suck it -- and that goes for you too, future incoming talen!" and "Pionk is no longer an effective NHL top 4 D, and should have his position and minutes managed in order to optimize what he brings to the team, with the clear goal of optimizing deployment and everything else to enjoy a deeper playoff run in 2025."

If Dillon can be signed to a reasonable extension, great. DD adds significant stability (when not welcoming a newborn) to the back end, and is also a versatile RHD whose game doesn't depend on physical dominance.

If Dillon is signed, a Schmidt buyout might follow, though he is likely still more effective as a 6/7 than Stanley. Then major turnover follows in 2025, with both Schmidt and Pionk gone, and either or both of Heinola and Salmo playing. Having a guy like Dillon around to mentor and move up and down might be very useful as new talent is integrated.

And if they move Ehlers f/ Ehlers + or a top 4 RHD, then there's some additional shuffling to do.

Either way, less Pionk = better Jets, probably.

 

[Orrrules]

If the Red Wings are offering a 2nd 3rd and a prospect for him take it.

 

[WolfHouse]

Lots of interesting discussion here.

I do think there's a decent delta between "Throw Pionk out on his arse and the team can suck it -- and that goes for you too, future incoming talen!" and "Pionk is no longer an effective NHL top 4 D, and should have his position and minutes managed in order to optimize what he brings to the team, with the clear goal of optimizing deployment and everything else to enjoy a deeper playoff run in 2025."

If Dillon can be signed to a reasonable extension, great. DD adds significant stability (when not welcoming a newborn) to the back end, and is also a versatile RHD whose game doesn't depend on physical dominance.

If Dillon is signed, a Schmidt buyout might follow, though he is likely still more effective as a 6/7 than Stanley. Then major turnover follows in 2025, with both Schmidt and Pionk gone, and either or both of Heinola and Salmo playing. Having a guy like Dillon around to mentor and move up and down might be very useful as new talent is integrated.

And if they move Ehlers f/ Ehlers + or a top 4 RHD, then there's some additional shuffling to do.

Either way, less Pionk = better Jets, probably.

How do you seriously engage in negotiations with demelo or Dillons agent and not start at 6 million a year... kind of an insult to offer less no?

 

[KingBogo]

How do you seriously engage in negotiations with demelo or Dillons agent and not start at 6 million a year... kind of an insult to offer less no?

No one else will offer that. Just because you have a bad contract doesn’t mean it should be a president that all future contracts should be bad.

 

[Orrrules]

Any sane person wouldn't pay Schmidt and Pionk more than DeMelo or Dillon. GM has to get out of those contracts.

 

[KingBogo]

Any sane person wouldn't pay Schmidt and Pionk more than DeMelo or Dillon. GM has to get out of those contracts.

You have to balance that against buyout cap hit costs or the cost of picks/prospects to get someone to take on the contract. I think they may be more open to buying out Schmidt. I don’t think Chevy will pay teams to take on a bad contract but who knows.

 

[Orrrules]

Schmidt is a liability, buyout is the only option. Pionk otoh has trade value.

 

[WolfHouse]

No one else will offer that. Just because you have a bad contract doesn’t mean it should be a president that all future contracts should be bad.

They have two bad contracts actually...

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

What a load of unmitigated bollocks.

Can you even mitigate bollocks? How does one go about that?

 

[kanadalainen]

Can you even mitigate bullocks? How does one go about that?

Best I can do...

 

[Board Bard]

Can you even mitigate bollocks? How does one go about that?

​

bollocks: noun
nonsense; senseless talk.

unmitigated: adjective
Not diminished or moderated in intensity or severity.

dictionary: noun
A reference work containing a list of words in alphabetical order, giving their meaning, translation and/or other information.

It would be super easy for the OP to mitigate bollocks: stop posting.

 

[Buffdog]

​

bollocks: noun
nonsense; senseless talk.

unmitigated: adjective
Not diminished or moderated in intensity or severity.

dictionary: noun
A reference work containing a list of words in alphabetical order, giving their meaning, translation and/or other information.

It would be super easy for the OP to mitigate bollocks: stop posting.

Since I'm the OP in question, you have no idea how much I'm mitigating right now

And to think that I've been accused of coming across as "condescending".

Nice copy and paste job, tho

 

[10Ducky10]

I thought bollocks meant "nuts" or "balls".

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

​

bollocks: noun
nonsense; senseless talk.

unmitigated: adjective
Not diminished or moderated in intensity or severity.

dictionary: noun
A reference work containing a list of words in alphabetical order, giving their meaning, translation and/or other information.

It would be super easy for the OP to mitigate bollocks: stop posting.

bollocks: noun
the testicles

unmitigated: adjective
complete, total

mitigate: adjective
to lessen in force or intensity

dictionary: noun
A reference work containing a list of words in alphabetical order, giving their meaning, translation and/or other information.

So I ask again:

How do you mitigate bollocks? How would the OP go about taking his complete and total testicles and lessening their force or intensity? Cut them off? That's a big ask, brother.

 

[voyageur]

The Jets have had a pretty stable Top 6 of defensemen over the last 2 seasons. In descending order of 5v5 ice-time:

Morrissey
Pionk
DeMelo
Dillon
Schmidt
Samberg

Out of this group at 5v5, Pionk is last in: CF/60, CA/60, CF%*, FA/60, FF%*, SF/60, SA/60, SF%*, GA/60, GF%* , xGA/60, xGF%*, SCF/60, SCA/60, SCF%*, HDCF/60, HDCA/60, HDCF%*.

His PDO is 1.007 so you can't really say he's been particularly lucky or unlucky with on-ice SH% and SV%.

* He's the only one of these defenders who's below 50% in those categories, and the gaps between him and the next-worst defender aren't very close.

He's 2nd in PP time over the last 2 seasons. He has a GF/60 of 5.09, an xGF/60 of 5.79 and a SCF/60 of 42.46 - he's about as effective as Nate Schmidt (which is to say "not very").

He's 4th in PK time. He's about average in terms of Jets defensemen penalty killing (also not great).

He's spent the most time paired with Dillon (almost 60% at 5v5). His results have been equally poor with or without Dillon. Dillon without Pionk has really good 5v5 numbers.

Pionk is not an effective NHL defenseman and he's legitimately hurting the team. But the Jets are going to keep him despite him being an anchor because...they're paying him a lot and I guess he's a good guy in the room? Pavelec 2.0.

So is Pionk our best defenseman to start the year?

 

[WiscoJet]

Contract year Pionk is something else.

 

[Channelcat]

Contract year Pionk is something else.

I'm a fan.....the guy is hugely underappreciated here. But the " contract year" performance leaves a bit of a sour taste for me. Regardless, with 5 or 6 significant deals expiring, someone has to go and I'm guessing it's him.

 

[Crocket]

Its an injury free year, not just a contract year. His foot was broken last year and off ice considerations were difficult. He's playing great.

 

[ps241]

Its an injury free year, not just a contract year. His foot was broken last year and off ice considerations were difficult. He's playing great.

Yea I think being healthy and having a defensively sound, very mobile D partner that is talented will help Neil. We aren’t at 10 games yet so I don’t want to look too far ahead. Great start for Neil and the team though.

 

[voyageur]

I'm a fan.....the guy is hugely underappreciated here. But the " contract year" performance leaves a bit of a sour taste for me. Regardless, with 5 or 6 significant deals expiring, someone has to go and I'm guessing it's him.

Nobody said that about De Melo last year, when he was having a career year. Pionk is younger too so he may just be hitting his ceiling. When you are up there with Makar in the scoring race for defense, Pionk may just be having a year that prices him out of Winnipeg, given that pretty much any team in the NHL would take that kind of scoring, PP and PK, from a top 4 d-man. Am I allowed to say he won't be easily replaced either, if the Jets lose him, because a top 4 d is just as hard to replace, if not harder, than a top 6 winger.

In the meantime, with a long season to go. just happy for the guy to be at peace in his life, and in the zone on the ice.

 

[surixon]

Nobody said that about De Melo last year, when he was having a career year. Pionk is younger too so he may just be hitting his ceiling. When you are up there with Makar in the scoring race for defense, Pionk may just be having a year that prices him out of Winnipeg, given that pretty much any team in the NHL would take that kind of scoring, PP and PK, from a top 4 d-man. Am I allowed to say he won't be easily replaced either, if the Jets lose him, because a top 4 d is just as hard to replace, if not harder, than a top 6 winger.

In the meantime, with a long season to go. just happy for the guy to be at peace in his life, and in the zone on the ice.

The big difference is DeMelo had a very similar year the year before last as he had last year. He also had a number of years before as a solid defensive dmen.

Pionk has been more over the map as a player. He started strong here and then fizzled for a number of years before his start this year.

So imo it's much harder to get a read on what type of player he will be for us.

But we won't be seeing any extension until the new year so plenty of games left to see how he continues to perform.

 

[KingBogo]

Nobody said that about De Melo last year, when he was having a career year. Pionk is younger too so he may just be hitting his ceiling. When you are up there with Makar in the scoring race for defense, Pionk may just be having a year that prices him out of Winnipeg, given that pretty much any team in the NHL would take that kind of scoring, PP and PK, from a top 4 d-man. Am I allowed to say he won't be easily replaced either, if the Jets lose him, because a top 4 d is just as hard to replace, if not harder, than a top 6 winger.

In the meantime, with a long season to go. just happy for the guy to be at peace in his life, and in the zone on the ice.

Agreed. The take that Pionk only plays well in contract years seems a little simplistic to me. I think the style of playing partner probably has a big impact on his play. He seems to have found a really nice groove with Samberg and just maybe this is just the start of many years of a strong 2nd pair for the Jets. 2 guys who skate well. One pushes offense, one more stay home. Also 2 guys that grew up in the same area and have known each other long before they were professional hockey players. Also agreed, Pionk's next contract will get more and more expensive if this current play continues.

 

[Flair Hay]

Still a bit too early to declare much of anything. If we are getting to game 20 or so and Pionk is putting up top pair type numbers offensively then that's a really great sign for him keeping up that level for the rest of the year.

The team is pretty dialed in to start the year and he is a big part of that. We are bound to cool off at some point. Still plenty of ups and downs to go.

He and Samberg did play well together for a small period of time before being split up last year. That part is pretty encouraging. Still early, but encouraging.