NCAA to allow CHL players to play hockey?

[Voight]

The Arizona Coyotes sold for $1.2 billion. It'd be a mistake to view owning a sports team like owning shares of a publicly traded company. It's a prestige, highly exclusive asset.

Hence why Ballmer overpaid a ton to buy the Clippers way back, were talking about the CHL here but in terms of big four teams there's less than 130 to be had. It's one exclusive club.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854615318473118041

Asude from Michigan, most schools dont actually care about that student part of student-athlete. So dont be surprised if a lot of the early round prospects from NCAA teams are at training camp next fall.

 

[Voight]

We've seen a few players leave the USHL and sign with their respective OHL teams already. How long until we have a big-name player sign?

You might very well see guys leave their teams within the next few months, especially if they re given the chance to join a top CHL club.

 

[Corso]

Interesting.

So basically this just allows NCAA players to participate in Rookie/Main Training camps with NHL teams.

And, of course, those who do not have NHL/AHL/ECHL/Euro contracts to be able to play in the NCAA for their age 20/21 years, depending on how they measure NCAA eligibility in respect to number of years played in the CHL.

Has absolutely zero to do with how many years they played in the CHL. All CHL players, provided they have not signed an E.L,C, an AHL ATO or any pro contract,, are eligible. Contrary to what some are saying in social media, they do not have to be 20/21 to play D-1 from the CHL.

You might very well see guys leave their teams within the next few months, especially if they re given the chance to join a top CHL club.

Curious to see if some of the younger big name talents leave sooinsh or wait until the end of the season?

 

[Bubbles]

Statement from the WHL commish:

Statement from WHL Commissioner on NCAA men's hockey eligibility changes - Western Hockey League

We are thrilled that upon graduation from the WHL, players will have additional options as they pursue the next step in their personal and hockey journey. We look forward to the opportunity to welcome a new wave of talent and we take great pride in our responsibility to support all WHL players in the pursuit of their goals – be that on the ice, in the classroom, and as contributing members of the community.

Players completing their eligibility with the WHL will continue to receive access to our leading post-secondary scholarship, funded by our 22 Member Clubs. In the 2023-24 season, the education bills for over 300 WHL Alumni were paid directly by the League and Clubs totalling in excess of $3 million in funding. The WHL is proud to continue this practice.

The key points are "graduates"...so this implies that you can't break the CHL contract to join a college. This muddies the water a bit.

 

[Bubbles]

Has absolutely zero to do with how many years they played in the CHL. All CHL players, provided they have not signed an E.L,C, an AHL ATO or any pro contract,, are eligible. Contrary to what some are saying in social media, they do not have to be 20/21 to play D-1 from the CHL.

The OHL has also released a statement, heavily indicating that this is for OHL graduates.

This is a landmark decision that gives OHL players additional avenues and opportunities to pursue their hockey, academic and life goals upon graduation from our league. It also opens the OHL’s doors to talented young student athletes with NCAA aspirations, providing them the opportunity to take their game to the next level in the number one development league in the world.

The OHL will continue to maintain a high standard as the leading supplier of talent to the National Hockey League while emphasizing the same blend of on-ice excellence with an off-ice commitment to character development and academics that has made the League what it is today.

Through this transition, the League will continue to honour its commitments through the OHL Scholarship and Development Program to players as they play out their years of eligibility, setting 20 and 21-year-old graduates up for success as they embark on new challenges both on the ice and in the classroom through both the NCAA and U SPORTS.

An Open Letter to the OHL Community Regarding NCAA Player Eligibility Changes - Ontario Hockey League

 

[WarriorofTime]

The OHL has also released a statement, heavily indicating that this is for OHL graduates.

This is a landmark decision that gives OHL players additional avenues and opportunities to pursue their hockey, academic and life goals upon graduation from our league. It also opens the OHL’s doors to talented young student athletes with NCAA aspirations, providing them the opportunity to take their game to the next level in the number one development league in the world.

The OHL will continue to maintain a high standard as the leading supplier of talent to the National Hockey League while emphasizing the same blend of on-ice excellence with an off-ice commitment to character development and academics that has made the League what it is today.

Through this transition, the League will continue to honour its commitments through the OHL Scholarship and Development Program to players as they play out their years of eligibility, setting 20 and 21-year-old graduates up for success as they embark on new challenges both on the ice and in the classroom through both the NCAA and U SPORTS.

An Open Letter to the OHL Community Regarding NCAA Player Eligibility Changes - Ontario Hockey League

Question is will they actively try and block a player if they want to leave. Easiest solution is to get with nhl and allow 19 year olds to play in AHL. Allow 19 year olds to go to ncaa. In each case if thru have a spot, in most cases players will stay through junior eligibility anyways. Unclear if “graduates” is being used in a more literal or colloquial sense. I.e. do they also say Connor Bedard is a “graduate” of the WHL?

 

[Bubbles]

Question is will they actively try and block a player if they want to leave. Easiest solution is to get with nhl and allow 19 year olds to play in AHL. Allow 19 year olds to go to ncaa. In each case if thru have a spot, in most cases players will stay through junior eligibility anyways. Unclear if “graduates” is being used in a more literal or colloquial sense. I.e. do they also say Connor Bedard is a “graduate” of the WHL?

The fact that they made it clear on both statements that "graduates" are free to go the NCAA path, suggests to me is that it's for players that completed their CHL contracts.

A player breaking their contract to go to college is I guess the next logical question to be asked. It would make sense the CHL would block any player leaving for college, just to protect it's own recruits and players leaving.

 

[Voight]

Question is will they actively try and block a player if they want to leave. Easiest solution is to get with nhl and allow 19 year olds to play in AHL. Allow 19 year olds to go to ncaa. In each case if thru have a spot, in most cases players will stay through junior eligibility anyways. Unclear if “graduates” is being used in a more literal or colloquial sense. I.e. do they also say Connor Bedard is a “graduate” of the WHL?

At 19, teams would've had the player for three seasons so that's fair. They'd really only be "losing" them for one, possibly two (if an overager) seasons.

Has absolutely zero to do with how many years they played in the CHL. All CHL players, provided they have not signed an E.L,C, an AHL ATO or any pro contract,, are eligible. Contrary to what some are saying in social media, they do not have to be 20/21 to play D-1 from the CHL.



Curious to see if some of the younger big name talents leave sooinsh or wait until the end of the season?

I can see top contenders going after guys on bad USHL teams after the WJC, basically offering them more exposure. Important for the draft eligibles.

Now it won't be widespread cause asking a 17 or 19 year old to move cities mid season is a lot.

Question is will they actively try and block a player if they want to leave. Easiest solution is to get with nhl and allow 19 year olds to play in AHL. Allow 19 year olds to go to ncaa. In each case if thru have a spot, in most cases players will stay through junior eligibility anyways. Unclear if “graduates” is being used in a more literal or colloquial sense. I.e. do they also say Connor Bedard is a “graduate” of the WHL?

Technically any player who's played one one of the leagues is a graduate, so yes.

 

[eojsmada]

Has absolutely zero to do with how many years they played in the CHL. All CHL players, provided they have not signed an E.L,C, an AHL ATO or any pro contract,, are eligible. Contrary to what some are saying in social media, they do not have to be 20/21 to play D-1 from the CHL.



Curious to see if some of the younger big name talents leave sooinsh or wait until the end of the season?

Fair. I just remember either Dreger or Friedman saying that there might be some kind of "eligibility" situation that could prevent CHL players from playing a 5th year of hockey in the NCAA. That there would be only 4 years of maximum eligibility combined between CHL and NCAA. But I do not see that in the article. Although, I am sure the whole thing will be fleshed out/made known in the coming days/weeks.

 

[Corso]

The OHL has also released a statement, heavily indicating that this is for OHL graduates.

This is a landmark decision that gives OHL players additional avenues and opportunities to pursue their hockey, academic and life goals upon graduation from our league. It also opens the OHL’s doors to talented young student athletes with NCAA aspirations, providing them the opportunity to take their game to the next level in the number one development league in the world.

The OHL will continue to maintain a high standard as the leading supplier of talent to the National Hockey League while emphasizing the same blend of on-ice excellence with an off-ice commitment to character development and academics that has made the League what it is today.

Through this transition, the League will continue to honour its commitments through the OHL Scholarship and Development Program to players as they play out their years of eligibility, setting 20 and 21-year-old graduates up for success as they embark on new challenges both on the ice and in the classroom through both the NCAA and U SPORTS.

An Open Letter to the OHL Community Regarding NCAA Player Eligibility Changes - Ontario Hockey L

From what I've heard, the OHL (and the rest of the CHL) is going to be modifying their standard contracts to include an opt out clause for college but players would not be entitled to the scholarship package if they leave prior to their 20 year old season.

This is only the beginning of some pretty big changes coming to the NHL-CHL transfer agreement. I understand your concerns, as a fan of whatever CHL team you follow, of losing top 18-19 year old talent but trust me when I say that the loses will be minimal.

 

[Blue and Green]

Straight from the OHL (via their pages on the chl.ca website):

3. What if I choose to leave the OHL before meeting the terms of my Standard Player Agreement?


If a player were to leave the OHL to play NCAA hockey prior to completion of the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement (through the end of their 19-year-old season), the player would no longer be eligible for the OHL Scholarship.


If a player were to go to the NCAA to play hockey following the completion of the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement (following their 19-year-old season), the player would be entitled to their OHL Scholarship benefits on the same basis as a player attending any other academic institution and could apply their earned scholarship to school costs in accordance with the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement and NCAA regulations.

 

[hockeyguy0022]

This more for guys who are 19-20 who may be 30-40-50 even 100 point player like Trevor Wong... in the CHL. but aren't drafted or low round picks, guys looking for another few years of exposure, they are absolutely top level players, but just don't get a pro shot.

Honestly, will move all rosters down a year younger from MJ down to MAAA down by 3-4 guys.

MAAA will have 3-4 more 15 year olds
Junior A will have 3-5 more 16-17 year olds
CHL will also probably have a few more 16 year olds.
Usport backfills with other major junior players. There's guys wither 40-50 points in the CHL who can't get on Usport rosters anyway.

NHL teams will be enticed to sign and get guys in the AHL earlier IMO.

Borderline pro/aging out 19-20 year old CHL players get 4 more years of top visibility to continue development.

NCAA gets WAY deeper across all D1 teams. wont really change the top dogs, but definitely the RIT's, Miami's, etc.. now become real competition.

Good for players all around IMO.

Some guys are too small, some guys aren't ready for the AHL, but could be great with another couple years of development in a top league that's not the ECHL etc..

 

[Bubbles]

Straight from the OHL (via their pages on the chl.ca website):

3. What if I choose to leave the OHL before meeting the terms of my Standard Player Agreement?


If a player were to leave the OHL to play NCAA hockey prior to completion of the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement (through the end of their 19-year-old season), the player would no longer be eligible for the OHL Scholarship.


If a player were to go to the NCAA to play hockey following the completion of the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement (following their 19-year-old season), the player would be entitled to their OHL Scholarship benefits on the same basis as a player attending any other academic institution and could apply their earned scholarship to school costs in accordance with the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement and NCAA regulations.

Thanks, this makes it much clearer now. This at least protects some of the players from leaving CHL teams in their 18/19 year olds. But they are free to go if they actually chose to.

 

[Voight]

Straight from the OHL (via their pages on the chl.ca website):

3. What if I choose to leave the OHL before meeting the terms of my Standard Player Agreement?


If a player were to leave the OHL to play NCAA hockey prior to completion of the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement (through the end of their 19-year-old season), the player would no longer be eligible for the OHL Scholarship.


If a player were to go to the NCAA to play hockey following the completion of the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement (following their 19-year-old season), the player would be entitled to their OHL Scholarship benefits on the same basis as a player attending any other academic institution and could apply their earned scholarship to school costs in accordance with the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement and NCAA regulations.

The interesting part will be what amount that comes out to. Let's say it's 20K CDN/year, well some higher end American universities will cost a lot more than that, especially when it comes to the conversion rate to USD. The OHL pretty much makes all of its money in CDN so, its going to cost a pretty penny if they start having to pay for tuition in the US.

 

[Corso]

The interesting part will be what amount that comes out to. Let's say it's 20K CDN/year, well some higher end American universities will cost a lot more than that, especially when it comes to the conversion rate to USD. The OHL pretty much makes all of its money in CDN so, its going to cost a pretty penny if they start having to pay for tuition in the US.

Teams are already paying U.S. tuition for American born players, but yes, you are correct in that tuition at American colleges has skyrocketed over the past couple of decades and that puts a lot of financial pressure on mid to small market CHL teams. There is a reason why the number of high-end Americans to the CHL has dropped over the past dozen years or so and this is a primary reason. A team like Val Dor or Owen Sound does not have the resources to pay full tuition and cost of attendance for American players and the only hope they have is that they sign E.L.C. so as to void their scholarship package.

By granting eligibility, however, to CHL players, small market teams now can recruit more American players as those players will not depend on the CHL scholarship package but rather NCAA ones.

There is a reason that the CHL, for the most part, is celebrating this development.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Thanks, this makes it much clearer now. This at least protects some of the players from leaving CHL teams in their 18/19 year olds. But they are free to go if they actually chose to.

Is it clearer?

The OHL FAQ states that a player who fulfils his contractual obligation and then goes NCAA “could apply their earned scholarship to school costs in accordance with the terms of their OHL Scholarship and Development Agreement and NCAA regulations.”

What are those pesky NCAA regulations?

NCAA Bylaw 15.2.6.2 in the financial aid portion of the NCAA Manual states with regard to external financial aid:

“No Relationship to Athletics Ability. A student-athlete may receive financial aid awarded solely on bases having no relationship to athletics ability.” That rule is in place to prevent schools from artificially exceeding the scholarship limits.

Sure, this regulation could change. But it isn’t hockey specific — it applies across all NCAA sports, so I wouldn’t bet on it.

Having said this, it might not matter. If an NCAA team wants a player, a scholarship is offered. The existence of a CHL scholarship is likely irrelevant. But from the CHL’s standpoint, it’s money saved.

 

[MeHateHe]

This seems a bit like whistling past the grave. I wonder if they have a clear idea of what they’re going to do next season.

 

[WarriorofTime]

By granting eligibility, however, to CHL players, small market teams now can recruit more American players as those players will not depend on the CHL scholarship package but rather NCAA ones.

Having said this, it might not matter. If an NCAA team wants a player, a scholarship is offered. The existence of a CHL scholarship is likely irrelevant. But from the CHL’s standpoint, it’s money saved.

NCAA D1 Hockey teams already have to play a bit of a math game here, because Hockey is an Equivalency Sport, not a Headcount Sport. NCAA teams have (someone can check me) 18 full scholarships and rosters of about 26 players. The Atlantic Division has even less (14 I think).

A lot of kids currently get Academic Scholarships or Financial Aid Scholarships. Especially at Ivy League Schools/a couple others that don't offer Athletic Scholarships, but have very generous Financial Aid Scholarships for players that don't come from wealthy families.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854886383124423018

Some issues/questions around 45 minutes in.

 

[jetsmooseice]

This is all good news for the CHL leagues. But I am very curious how junior A leagues (including the BCHL and USHL) will handle this now that they have lost their biggest recruitment selling point. Many junior A leagues have been barely hanging on (here in Manitoba all teams are reputedly pay to play to varying degrees now), this is going to be a huge kick in the nuts.

I wonder if we may see a sharp reduction in junior A leagues, for instance could we see the five or six strongest MJHL teams merge with the five or six strongest SJHL teams, with similar situations in other parts of Canada?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

The fact that they made it clear on both statements that "graduates" are free to go the NCAA path, suggests to me is that it's for players that completed their CHL contracts.

A player breaking their contract to go to college is I guess the next logical question to be asked. It would make sense the CHL would block any player leaving for college, just to protect it's own recruits and players leaving.

What recourse would a league have if a player just went to the NCAA and played?

 

[GKJ]

It’s worth mentioning that these statements are just setting the table. We don’t know how enforceable they are. Which means there will either be a lawsuit or agreement.

 

[MeHateHe]

I wonder if we may see a sharp reduction in junior A leagues, for instance could we see the five or six strongest MJHL teams merge with the five or six strongest SJHL teams, with similar situations in other parts of Canada?

Why? There's still going to be the same number of players looking for places to play. If there are players looking to play and fans willing to pay money to watch them play (or teams willing to do the needed fundraising to keep the teams afloat - hello Prince George Spruce Kings and your six-figure home annual home lottery) the leagues can continue to operate as they have been.

I'll say it again: this will re-order the hockey landscape. Junior A will revert to its prior status as a feeder league for major junior and, as a result, will likely get younger. A couple of teams may see this as the death of their raison d'etre and pack it in, but the majority are going to look for ways to adapt.

I don't know what the BCHL does, given that they have sold themselves as being the primary path from Canadian junior to NCAA, and burned a lot of bridges on the way.

But as long as there are players and paying customers (whatever the product), there will be hockey teams and leagues to house them. Predictions of the widescale death of junior A in Canada are wildly premature.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Why? There's still going to be the same number of players looking for places to play. If there are players looking to play and fans willing to pay money to watch them play (or teams willing to do the needed fundraising to keep the teams afloat - hello Prince George Spruce Kings and your six-figure home annual home lottery) the leagues can continue to operate as they have been.

I'll say it again: this will re-order the hockey landscape. Junior A will revert to its prior status as a feeder league for major junior and, as a result, will likely get younger. A couple of teams may see this as the death of their raison d'etre and pack it in, but the majority are going to look for ways to adapt.

I don't know what the BCHL does, given that they have sold themselves as being the primary path from Canadian junior to NCAA, and burned a lot of bridges on the way.

But as long as there are players and paying customers (whatever the product), there will be hockey teams and leagues to house them. Predictions of the widescale death of junior A in Canada are wildly premature.

The wool parents get pulled over their eyes to pay massive Jr. A player fees may finally be taken off, but it's not like you had much of a chance of graduating from the (for example) Winnipeg Freeze and heading to NCAA under the old rules to begin with, so my gut instinct is it will probably stay the same.

For sure USports will be a loser. I think it's safe to assume the BCHL will be a loser, but they could turn it around.

For normal Jr. A teams and the major junior it's up in the air - It's just nice to be living in reality as opposed to fantasy prediction land.

I could see less interest in stuff like the Centennial Cup and World Junior A challenge, but I think local teams will be alright.

Attendance and non player-fee revenue is driven by locals playing for the team, how good the team is and how many playoff games you get to host, not if your random top line winger gets a NCAA scholarship to a below average Div. 1 school, or if the quality of play is a C+ versus a C (when compared to top tier hockey).

If teams have become completely reliant on player fees to exist, and if this ruling causes parents to stop paying those player fees, then some teams will be in trouble - Both of those things have to be true beyond what I suspect they are for it to have a big impact.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The NHL actively subsidizes all 3 CHL leagues and their teams with millions of dollars annually, Muskegon and Youngstown will recieve those payments under the CHL umbrella. The vast majority of CHL teams lose hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars annually and are not profitable, this isnt an issue unique to either of those 2 teams.

McDavids Erie Otters lost nearly $1mil the year after he was drafted, and even filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in Pennsylvania during his draft year in 2015: Owner: Otters lost $831K last season

Erie Otters' ex-owner to get nearly $1.5 million from sale

The former owner of the Erie Otters will get a hefty sum from the sale of the team in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Erie. \n Sherry Bassin, who sold the Ontario Hockey League franchise on July 17, is expec…

www.goerie.com

The 60 CHL teams are compensated on average about 200k a team per year, not sure if it’s linear, or if a team develops more NHL players, maybe it’s possible they get more.

Any links on the vast majority of CHL teams lose money, or it’s just your opinion?