NCAA to allow CHL players to play hockey?
- Thread starter LadyStanley
- Start date
Isaac Nootin
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2017
- 7,800
- 12,272
With NIL players are getting paid. Does the CHL have to change their stipend to players to have them qualify for NCAA?
In the end what does everyone get out of it?
NCAA gets access to more players. Basically getting the ones who have been drafted or with a late birthday.
CHL, some kids who opt for tier II can instead opt for chl so they get more access to 16-17 year olds?
Players get more options. If they don’t think they have a pro future and if they qualify can go ncaa to prolong their career and get their education in.
Tier II leagues, will lose some kids to CHL. Probably the biggest losers in this.
Isaac Nootin
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2017
- 7,800
- 12,272
Biggest loser is probably USports. Alot of those players they rely on would ultimately choose the NCAA route instead.
I've seen even the southern schools have hockey teams, like Clemson, Texas. No clue if they would be considered the equivalent of Division II when compared to football given that they are not of the quality of Michigan, BU, BC, UND, etc. So, unless there is a great explosion of hockey programs, only so many scholarships to go around.
But, I do think USports in Canada would take a hit in terms of the quality of player for sure.
Takuto Maruki
Ideal and the real
I truly feel like there's too many people operating under assumptions that it's simply an issue of allowing people to profit off NIL, that they seem to ignore how much of a wild wasteland NIL is in general, how many states are actively trying to set some sort of guidelines and boundaries with regards to how money is doled out, and the feds are going to be the ultimate arbiters on whether or not foreign nationals (considering that's a large chunk of the D1 hockey landscape) are even going to be *able* to take advantage of NIL, or whether the potential headaches of taxes of payments is going to cause that to be a non-starter. Considering the tea leaves I've seen with regards to the entire NIL process, that's very clearly a 'cross that bridge when we get there' problem to be solved, but something tells me if this agreement goes through, those questions are going to have to be forced to the front of the line.
And the players who right now are D1 players but wouldn't be once CHLers are allowed in.
If this passes, CHL players get to have their cake and eat it too. 3ish CHL seasons, another 4 in the NCAA. It's kind of a joke at that point
mouser
Business of Hockey
i wonder what the impact to the USHL might be if more university slots go to CHL players.
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
- 193,218
- 43,626
There’s a lot of schools that have those teams, I don’t know where they stack up vs. D-III teams, or turn players into pros, but they function outside of the NCAA so that they don’t have to adhere to all the same regulations, and all that comes with it - regulations, recruiting, Title IX, funding, infrastructure, etc.
I’d be surprised if this was implemented fast enough for current D1 players to feel burned. Maybe freshmen. Even at that, there’s still not enough mouths to feed.
Now, I say some of this not having a full grasp of all the junior systems.
Catching up on this story, it’s kind of hard for me to wrap my head around all of the trickle down effects. USports will get hit, but they were getting guys who were post-NCAA regardless. Do some of these schools want to try and get in to the NCAA?
I don’t know the numbers on who goes there directly from the CHL now. It must go down when this goes in. Can you go back to the CHL from NCAA if you want? Or will there be an agreement that NCAA schools can’t poach CHL players either mid-season, or before they go overage?
If you’re someone with pro ambitions, especially if you’re Canadian like Celebrini, who the WHL missed on, there’s no incentive to not go to the CHL unless going to college is simply what you want to do.
But that will be the question as to whether or not that still continues, with NIL and future expansion at the D1 level. It seems like one of the two will get sucked dry. There has to be some appeal to players who won’t want to go all the way to Canada, but you’re also talking about the NTDP taking the best of those players.
Bubbles
Die Hard for Bedard 2023
Someone mentioned in the Prospects forum that this new rule change from the NCAA only concerns US Citizens. That would have much less of an impact on the CHL.
However, this would hurt the Junior A circuit, and I would assume most Americans would choose the CHL over the Junior A route simply because they can maintain their NCAA eligibility.
I suspected this decision had something to do with sticking it to the now independent BCHL.
However, this would hurt the Junior A circuit, and I would assume most Americans would choose the CHL over the Junior A route simply because they can maintain their NCAA eligibility.
I suspected this decision had something to do with sticking it to the now independent BCHL.
Boonk
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2017
- 2,930
- 3,964
The USHL would likely have to strike a deal with the CHL to come under the Major Junior umbrella of the other 3 CHL leagues and compete for the Memorial Cup to remain relevant. I suspect thats what would happen shortly after.
MeHateHe
Registered User
- Dec 24, 2006
- 2,724
- 3,119
Given that this is just a change of ncaa rules, what incentive does the ncaa have to stick it to the BCHL?
GKJ
Global Moderator
- Feb 27, 2002
- 193,218
- 43,626
I had wondered about this too, if any of the USHL teams would join the league themselves otherwise.
jetsmooseice
Up Yours Robison
- Feb 20, 2020
- 1,954
- 2,537
Either way it's a real kick in the balls for the BCHL. They set themselves up to be the prime pathway for Canadians interested in the NCAA route only to have the rug pulled right out from under them.
They assumed risks when making their decision to break off from Hockey Canada. Surely they didn't expect something THIS drastic, but they knew there were significant risks involved. I worked in that league for three years, and even back then there were discussions about wanting to form a "super league" with some of the top AJHL programs. I always thought it was a stupid idea and would never work out the way they expected it to.
I also never expected the CHL and NCAA to make this type of move, but here we are. If this ends up with ALL CHL players being eligible for NCAA, Junior A hockey in Canada is dead. There will be zero incentive for upper-echelon players to go the Junior A route over whatever CHL team that drafts them.
jetsmooseice
Up Yours Robison
- Feb 20, 2020
- 1,954
- 2,537
Fair to say that junior A effectively becomes junior B (sort of a local, fairly competitive rec league), and junior A as we knew it dies?
oldunclehue
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2010
- 1,255
- 1,372
If CHL is open to play NCAA afterwards I’d say most Junior A leagues will have a hard time convincing their top end talent to stay in Junior A leagues or BCHL. It would be a no brainer to go the CHL route for any player then. Play top league in age, pay nothing to play, play in bigger cities and arenas, if the pro/NHL route isn’t looking good at 20, then take an NCAA scholarship and get 4 amazing years of school and hockey development.
Going to be interesting to see how CJAHL handles recruitment and what happens to the leagues.
MeHateHe
Registered User
- Dec 24, 2006
- 2,724
- 3,119
I suspect it may be detrimental to the BCHL, although there are still lots of unanswered questions even then.
What I was arguing was the implication that this was a a screw-you to the BCHL. I suspect that a poster in that other thread was right: this was forestalling a lawsuit that would force the NCAA to make this change. The notion that NCAA athletes are purely amateur (which was theatre for years but whatever) has been conclusively done away with, so preventing players with CHL experience from playing NCAA hockey is no longer defensible.
The predictions of the wholesale demise of Junior A hockey is overwrought. For decades, Junior A existed on a spectrum of hockey, and was part of a development path. High end players skating in Junior A leagues in their draft year was, for the most part, a rarity. Younger players used Junior A to develop before making a junior either to major junior or, perhaps later, to university/college, either in Canada or the US.
This will reorder things, nothing more. A few more high end players may go to major junior. The skills difference between Junior A and major junior may widen a bit, but I suspect things will look a little bit more like they did in the 80s and 90s. There will be something of a progression from Junior B (in BC and Alberta, mostly) to Junior A to major junior. But there will still be players looking for a place to develop their skills and get noticed by scouts from teams at higher levels.
Frankly, I think the NCAA would be crazy to just turn into the league where players go after they're done major junior. The level of hockey would increase, but the prestige of the leagues would sink, because you'd have a bunch of 21-year-olds clogging up roster spots that might otherwise be where a draft eligible or a draft+1 kid would be honing his skills. If that's what happens, the only league to benefit would the CHL, because why would draft-eligible kids go anywhere else until they were at least 19 or 20? They're playing against their age peer group and still playing in the league that churns out more NHLers than any other.
Yukon Joe
Registered User
As I understand it, the number of players who turn down a spot in the CHL in order to go to Junior A and preserve NCAA availability was small-ish. It certainly isn't the case that the majority of a Junior A roster could have been playing CHL but for the NCAA position.
What I like as a hockey dad is it takes away at least a tiny bit of uncertainty and confusion. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, some day my kid gets invited to a WHL camp. He'd be tough to make the team, but he's got an invite. As I understand it the rules on what the WHL can or can't pay for before it would affect your NCAA eligibility are complex. And as well - the moment you suit up for an exhibition game you'd also lose your NCAA availability.
But if they do away with that restriction - then go ahead and go to camp. Maybe you make it, maybe you don't.
What I like as a hockey dad is it takes away at least a tiny bit of uncertainty and confusion. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, some day my kid gets invited to a WHL camp. He'd be tough to make the team, but he's got an invite. As I understand it the rules on what the WHL can or can't pay for before it would affect your NCAA eligibility are complex. And as well - the moment you suit up for an exhibition game you'd also lose your NCAA availability.
But if they do away with that restriction - then go ahead and go to camp. Maybe you make it, maybe you don't.
MeHateHe
Registered User
- Dec 24, 2006
- 2,724
- 3,119
Yeah, it does seem a bit much to expect a 16-year-old to either A) make a decision that's going to affect his entire hockey career or B) expect that same 16-year-old to take a parent's wise choice. I knew a kid who played one single solitary game for the Regina Pats, then went to Junior A where he spent every chance he got trying to convince NCAA scouts who showed up that it was actually his brother that played that one game. The kid everntually went on to play some low-minor pro in Texas or Arizona or someplace.
At best, he was a bottom-6 D in a weak D1 school, so no school was going to jump through any hoops to get his eligibility restored (nor offer him a redshirt for a year) so D1 was beyond his reach anyway. But it does bring that choice into clear view.
Last edited:
oldunclehue
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2010
- 1,255
- 1,372
Exactly this, it makes the pressure on families and kids to decide disappear. If it is wide open or even if they put a games played cap on eligibility, it allows for people to make the decision a bit later. As well as stops CHL teams from the game of signing 15 year olds to contracts to lock them in.
If CJAHL leagues were smart they would try and align themselves with CHL teams as a feeder system.
“Hey we can develop your 17-18 year olds here and move them up to CHL and advance to pro or NCAA”
I’m excited for this move for players. Concerned for CJAHL leagues though….could get complicated to run teams and leagues now.
Tom ServoMST3K
In search of a Steinbach Hero
Maybe - MAYBE - it averages out to one per team. I'm hesitant to even say it's that high.
WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
- 31,527
- 20,602
All those guys go to the USHL. Although some to the BCHL or the good AJHL teams (the breakaway ones).
The other ones are all just CHL farm teams, very few kids from those leagues are recruited by NCAA D1 teams and the ones that are low end up on low level teams.
Tom ServoMST3K
In search of a Steinbach Hero
In MB, across my two years involved covering the MJHL, I've seen a few players spend one or two years in the MJ, sign a college commitment, then move to the USHL the next year.
WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
- 31,527
- 20,602
Sounds about right. USHL is tough to crack at age 16 (there's the USNDTP and then a handful of high-end guys here and there). Even 17 can be dicey as many kids stay in their HS/Prep School (MN HS, MA Prep, Shattucks...) or spent the bulk of it in NAHL. Looking through active Canadians in USHL,
Lukas Posthumus: 16/17 in CCHL, now 18 in USHL
Lucas Brennan: 17/18 in MJHL, now 19 in USHL
Ryan Botterill: 17/18/19 in MJHL, now 20 in USHL
Noah Barlage: 16/17/18/19 in SJHL, now 20 in USHL
Kevin Fitzgerald: Split 17 between CCHL and NCDC (in US), 18/19 in USHL
Jayden Jubenvill: 18 in MJHL, 19/20 in USHL
Giacomo Martino: 16/17 in OJHL, now 18 in USHL
Michael Neumeier: 16/17 in SJHL, 18/19 in NAHL (in US), now 20 in USHL
Hayden Reid: 16 in GOJHL, now 17 in USHL
A lot more that came to the USHL by way of the BCHL or AJHL. Probably AJHL most common as more BCHL kids likely stay.
Lukas Posthumus: 16/17 in CCHL, now 18 in USHL
Lucas Brennan: 17/18 in MJHL, now 19 in USHL
Ryan Botterill: 17/18/19 in MJHL, now 20 in USHL
Noah Barlage: 16/17/18/19 in SJHL, now 20 in USHL
Kevin Fitzgerald: Split 17 between CCHL and NCDC (in US), 18/19 in USHL
Jayden Jubenvill: 18 in MJHL, 19/20 in USHL
Giacomo Martino: 16/17 in OJHL, now 18 in USHL
Michael Neumeier: 16/17 in SJHL, 18/19 in NAHL (in US), now 20 in USHL
Hayden Reid: 16 in GOJHL, now 17 in USHL
A lot more that came to the USHL by way of the BCHL or AJHL. Probably AJHL most common as more BCHL kids likely stay.
