probably because once the novelty wore off, the ownership wasn't as committed as was initially believed..... that'll happen anywhere, you'll have your casual, your core, and your die hard fanbase....what that mix of that actually is varies.... and then is there something that'll hook one of those long-term as compared to short-term....which is true in a sense, but it's really an excuse, as to why a market gets multiple chances or not....
NBA Hints at Future Expansion
- Thread starter DaBadGuy7
- Start date
KevFu
Registered User
It wouldn't be a big gamble at all because
A) nothing will stop the franchise value from rising going forward.
B) Ticket sales are like 20% of revenue.
The Nets had the worst attendance in the league, and got $60 million in gate receipts. Their total revenue was $304 million, so 19.7% of revenue is ticket sales.
And the Dallas Mavericks cost $280 million to buy in 2000.... the Houston Rockets were sold for $2.2 billion in 2017.
You buy an NBA team if the league lets you because when you cash out and sell the team, you're going to get a helluvalot more than what you paid.
I find it highly unlikely they will find anyone willing to pay $2 billion American for an NBA franchise. Revenues in many markets are likely to have decreased from previous highs for a few years even after the COVID vaccination has been given to the majority of the population. There is too much economic uncertainty in the near-medium term for any potential owner to pay this much money for a franchise is any place other than a large market.
You would have to give me the date on the picture. As it stands during the Canucks recent horrid run the team still averaged 96 - 98% capacity over 6 years so they in fact were selling nearly all their seats during the tough times. And no, contrary to your claims, you do not have to sell out every hockey game during the tough times to prove you can support the NBA (sellouts during the tough times according to you). Almost every team in the NBA does not come close to sellouts during the tough times especially if those tough times extend beyond more than one season. It's not a reasonable ask on your part.
Nor is basketball a niche sport in Canada as you claim. It's not the 90s anymore. No country in the world provides the NBA with as much talent as Canada. Immigration brings in hundreds of thousands . More than one in five immigrants have been born outside Canada, 13.4 % of recent immigrants were born in Africa and half the foreign-born population is from Asia - many of these people come from countries that love basketball and will provide a pool of future players and ticket buyers.
The Daily — Immigration and ethnocultural diversity: Key results from the 2016 Census
Vancouver was given a whopping 6 years in the NBA which is pathetic and far less time than any recent NHL franchise, including Atlanta. Half a decade is hardly adequate in determining whether a city can support a pro team. Vancouver was also hamstrung by terrible draft rules at the time. This wouldn't be the case if a team relocated/expanded to Vancouver. Southern BC has nearly 1 million more people, has a highly diverse population with many originating from basketball-loving countries, and the huge tv contract provides unprecedented financial stability for all NBA teams including sad sacks like Memphis, Minnesota, New Orleans.
Yes, the Twin Cities are 16th largest metro in the US with 3.6 million. If the team sells for $1.3 B or so good luck getting markets that are substantially smaller (Louisville, Las Vegas) to pay $1.5 billion or more.
It doesn't help that the Timberwolves are probably the worst franchise in North America the past 30 years. The only other franchises that I can think of that is comparable would be the new iteration of the Cleveland Browns
And yet cities smaller than both somehow manage to support 2-3 teams in the big-4 sports leagues, plus college basketball, football, PGA, pro tennis, racing. Both cities could easily support an NBA franchise, even in tough times and playing second fiddle to hockey.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
- 22,154
- 14,077
Smaller US cities, where they care a great deal more for basketball. Hey, I thought it was cool having the Grizz out here, but understood why the team moved.
Smaller US cities that do not have the economic clout of Vancouver. Vancouver has demographics favorably making it a closer second choice to basketball compared to 25 years ago.
The Griz left after 6 seasons. Think about that. Is that enough time to determine the viability of a pro sports team? I think you know the answer to that.
Even as a #2 choice in the market, Vancouver would easily provide more revenues than dirt poor cities like Memphis and New Orleans. Revenues would likely be comparable (possibly higher) to places like Indy, Charlotte, Denver, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Orlando, Utah.
LadyStanley
Registered User
Potential Las Vegas NBA team comes with big price tag
Nothing imminent. Lv POV.
Utah recently sold for $1.6B.
Nothing imminent. Lv POV.
Utah recently sold for $1.6B.
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
I'm not sure what Southhaven has to do w/ this but Memphis is a Basketball town, maybe not a "hotbed" but hoops is a big deal there.
Southhaven is considered North Memphis.... it's Landers Coliseum as well, the Grizzlies started the Memphis Hustle there.
Memphis actually IS a hotbed, and was a hotbed of basketball long before the Grizzlies.
Should check the history of the Memphis Tigers program, Elliot Perry, Penny Hardaway, and getting a 20k seat pyramid arena in the 90s.
Lol at discerning between Northaven and Memphis. Like insisting the Golden Knights aren't really Las Vegas, they're in Paradise NV.
Should check the history of the Memphis Tigers program, Elliot Perry, Penny Hardaway, and getting a 20k seat pyramid arena in the 90s.
Lol at discerning between Northaven and Memphis. Like insisting the Golden Knights aren't really Las Vegas, they're in Paradise NV.
Uh yes, that’s been my point from the beginning. It’s going to be very hard for any owner to shell out that kind of dough for an unnecessary luxury, especially a Canadian franchise that has to pay in Canadian dollars for an expansion fee and compete against 29 other American franchises.
You’re putting way too much faith in the declared attendance numbers. Teams regularly paper the house, case in point the Florida Panthers, unless you somehow believe they achieve 83% capacity per game.
Also, it’s true, NBA teams don’t need to always sell. But they also aren’t paying the $2-$3 billion price tag that’s being asked. Michael Jordan for instance paid only $180 million for his team about a decade ago. He or other owners probably don’t feel the same pressure as another owner who pays. 10 to 15 times more.
Your point about immigrants doesn’t hold as much weight as you think either. Immigrants aren’t the ones buying season tickets which is the foundation of any franchise.
The Grizzlies also lasted only 6 years because that’s what the owner could afford to lose. The honeymoon period was also over pretty quick. By year 5, their average attendance had fallen into the 13,000s. The owner was probably hemorrhaging money badly and relocation was necessary.
Niche is a relative term. I use the term in the same sense that many believe the NHL is niche sport in America. In Canada, basketball is part of the big 4 sports, but sits under hockey, football and possibly even baseball.
America is the opposite, basketball culture is huge down there with massive college interest and superstars being churned out every year. Canada doesn’t have the same grassroots love for the game right now and who knows how things will look like a decade from now too. Millennials and Gen Z seem to care less and less about attending/watching live sports.
LeHab
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2005
- 15,957
- 6,259
Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
46zone
Pass me the soft pretzels
The NHL should be in Seattle even if the the NBA is there.
They already knew. It's the worst kept secret in NA pro sports that NBA is coming back to Seattle.
The Kraken will be fine. Seattle is plenty big enough to host teams in the 5 North American sports leagues, and if the Seahawks and Sounders have proven anything, it's that the people of Seattle love their teams.
If the NBA is expanding, then they need to seriously consider Montreal for team 32. I think the NBA would be a huge success there.
Pros of choosing Montreal:
*2nd-largest media market and metro area in Canada
*Arena that is NBA-ready and would require no crazy upgrades (Bell Centre)
*Only 2 teams in the other major sports leagues are within the Montreal market (Habs and whatever their MLS team is called now)
Compare this to the other option being floated around a lot in Las Vegas:
*40th-largest media market in the US (-)
*Arena is NBA-ready (+)
*Already has 2 teams in the other major sports leagues (Knights and Raiders), which is a lot for a market of its size (-)
I just don't see the appeal of the NBA in Vegas after the NHL has established itself there. And the only other decent-sized market that jumps out to me as a good fit for the NBA is San Diego, and they do not have an NBA-ready arena. Pechanga Arena, their largest arena, seats only 14,500 for basketball and is over 50 years old. But if San Diego can build a new arena, then they would be a serious contender for team 32. This same thing goes for the Virginia Beach and Birmingham areas.
And an outside the box idea could be going to New Jersey, Anaheim, or Rosemont for team 32. The thing with this is it would require an owner willing to pay a "territorial encroachment fee" to the Knicks and Nets for the NY media market, the Lakers and Clippers for the LA media market, or the Bulls for the Chicago media market. If there is an owner willing to do this, then going to any of these three locations would be sensical for team 32 in my opinion.
Pros of choosing Montreal:
*2nd-largest media market and metro area in Canada
*Arena that is NBA-ready and would require no crazy upgrades (Bell Centre)
*Only 2 teams in the other major sports leagues are within the Montreal market (Habs and whatever their MLS team is called now)
Compare this to the other option being floated around a lot in Las Vegas:
*40th-largest media market in the US (-)
*Arena is NBA-ready (+)
*Already has 2 teams in the other major sports leagues (Knights and Raiders), which is a lot for a market of its size (-)
I just don't see the appeal of the NBA in Vegas after the NHL has established itself there. And the only other decent-sized market that jumps out to me as a good fit for the NBA is San Diego, and they do not have an NBA-ready arena. Pechanga Arena, their largest arena, seats only 14,500 for basketball and is over 50 years old. But if San Diego can build a new arena, then they would be a serious contender for team 32. This same thing goes for the Virginia Beach and Birmingham areas.
And an outside the box idea could be going to New Jersey, Anaheim, or Rosemont for team 32. The thing with this is it would require an owner willing to pay a "territorial encroachment fee" to the Knicks and Nets for the NY media market, the Lakers and Clippers for the LA media market, or the Bulls for the Chicago media market. If there is an owner willing to do this, then going to any of these three locations would be sensical for team 32 in my opinion.
Cacciaguida
Registered User
I'd love to see a Baltimore Bullets return. Too bad their arena is garbage.
ISN'T Bullets trademarked by Monumental Sports, since a banner hangs at Capital One Arena in DC
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
Oh man I'm already thinking about future headlines and TMZ-type stories when James Harden and Lou Williams among others come to Vegas during the season
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