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OT: NBA Discussion Thread: Part III

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With all the (IMO) smart moves Perry has made since he's been here, I just can't figure out why they'd stretch Noah right now. Maybe someone can enlighten me, but...

There's absolutely no need for the cap room this year. Why would you not keep him for this season and then going into next season... the contract actually gains some value as it becomes a huge expiring? The team is not competing this season, nor do they have the assets for an in-season trade for a major FA that would necessitate more cap space.

It had seemed like this "new regime's" whole mindset was patience and building the team through the draft and smart signings. Stretching Noah at this point just seems to indicate we're once again betting on superstar free agents signing here to save the franchise.

Again, if it turns out during Free Agency next year there's a good chance you can bring in KD & Kyrie, you move Noah's contract THEN. At that point you've gotta believe future 1st rounders will be late round picks, and can include the 1st round pick to move the Noah contract to make the space.
 
ponzu4u said:
It had seemed like this "new regime's" whole mindset was patience and building the team through the draft and smart signings. Stretching Noah at this point just seems to indicate we're once again betting on superstar free agents signing here to save the franchise.

Again, if it turns out during Free Agency next year there's a good chance you can bring in KD & Kyrie, you move Noah's contract THEN. At that point you've gotta believe future 1st rounders will be late round picks, and can include the 1st round pick to move the Noah contract to make the space.
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This regime saw how Noah interacted with the team last year, including having the ordeal with Hornacek. I think it's pretty obvious they do not want him around the team. He'll eat into Mitchell Robinson's minutes if he is playing, and if he is not playing, he's going to be jawing at people to play, causing an issue.

The team has moved on. He isn't going to play here. Why waste a spot on someone who won't be around? Also, no team, even with a 1st round pick sweetener, is taking Noah. They'll be better off trying to sell THJ and Lee on someone before Noah gets dealt. Lee will be easier to move. THJ having a 15% trade kicker will be an issue. He's a 2 year guy after this season (player option he will pick up).

They're moves before 7/1/19 are going to look like this:

Buyout Noah (9/1/18 - Before start of camp)
Trade Lee (Before 18-19 deadline)
Trade Lance Thomas (Before 18-19 deadline)
Trade THJ (At the draft OR after 7/1/19 IF another player wants to join Kyrie here)

After that, they'll flat out release Baker and Mudiay and let other UFAs walk.

Not to mention, they will need to extend Porzingis next summer. He's going to want to be paid. His injury history gives the team a chance to lock him in for less money, but it won't be by a lot, and I don't see them moving on from him anytime soon.
 
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That's fair, I can see the locker room cancer issue being a valid reason. But my impression was that he was NOT actually around the team once they had their falling out. If, as has been reported, he's the one unwilling to reintegrate with the team, how can the players association have a valid grievance with that? Isn't he the one refusing to show up to work?
 
mrjimmyg89 said:
This regime saw how Noah interacted with the team last year, including having the ordeal with Hornacek. I think it's pretty obvious they do not want him around the team. He'll eat into Mitchell Robinson's minutes if he is playing, and if he is not playing, he's going to be jawing at people to play, causing an issue.

The team has moved on. He isn't going to play here. Why waste a spot on someone who won't be around? Also, no team, even with a 1st round pick sweetener, is taking Noah. They'll be better off trying to sell THJ and Lee on someone before Noah gets dealt. Lee will be easier to move. THJ having a 15% trade kicker will be an issue. He's a 2 year guy after this season (player option he will pick up).

They're moves before 7/1/19 are going to look like this:

Buyout Noah (9/1/18 - Before start of camp)
Trade Lee (Before 18-19 deadline)
Trade Lance Thomas (Before 18-19 deadline)
Trade THJ (At the draft OR after 7/1/19 IF another player wants to join Kyrie here)

After that, they'll flat out release Baker and Mudiay and let other UFAs walk.

Not to mention, they will need to extend Porzingis next summer. He's going to want to be paid. His injury history gives the team a chance to lock him in for less money, but it won't be by a lot, and I don't see them moving on from him anytime soon.
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Lance only has 1M guaranteed next year, which can also be stretched if need be. So we don't need to worry about trading him this season. And we're at a max cap slot already...unless we get a top 3 pick, but if that happens we can just trade down, so it's not a real problem...so Lee doesn't even have to be traded; though I suspect he will be just to open more PT.

Agreed about this Noah move being more about keeping him away from Mitch & the culture shift than it is finances.
 
ponzu4u said:
That's fair, I can see the locker room cancer issue being a valid reason. But my impression was that he was NOT actually around the team once they had their falling out. If, as has been reported, he's the one unwilling to reintegrate with the team, how can the players association have a valid grievance with that? Isn't he the one refusing to show up to work?
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It's still messy even if he's the one at fault because the NBAPA will back him, and after the Melo-drama I can understand the desire for decisive action that resolves the situation rather than waiting around while another sore on the Knicks' reputation festers.
 
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darko said:
Giving Kyrie a max contract isn't the smartest idea.
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It's going to happen, but the guy needs to play a full season this year. There is always something that happens. It's not like he misses a couple games with a twisted ankle or that he breaks bones, it's ligaments, knee issues, etc. With Porzingis already being an injury liability, they don't need their top 2 players being guys who are always out with something.
 
All Might said:
I think they bring in 2/3 of Durant, Irving and Butler. If it includes Durant, they're winning the NBA title.
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Eh, I'm still expecting us to end up overpaying Kemba to take a shorter deal. But it's nice to hear that real stars might be interested in playing with Porzi from real NBA people & not Screamin A.

Given that this should be a playoff team next season with or without a max cat, that this is our only chance to get 2 max FAs without another cap spike, and if we strike out we'll only have 2 more summers before the other kids need to start getting paid, I'm all for going after Kyrie, KD and even Jimmy; but I'm still not expecting it to actually happen.
 
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Can someone explain to me why so many knicks fans think it’ll be the end of the world if we end up “blowing” our cap space on a 4 year 100-110M deal for Middleton & a 3 year deal for Kemba around 70-75M?

Obviously KD & Kyrie is the dream, but it’s not like we’ll be able to tank with a healthy KP, year 3 Frank, sophomore Knox & Mitch, and another high lotto pick, even if we strike out in FA.

So why not surround them with two of the best shooters in the game, one of whom can help frank run the team...like a rich man’s Childs & Ward...the other of whom can defend 2-4 & run some PNRs himself.

Both with a lot of tread left on their tires, and both of whom would be tradeable on those contracts in the future if the Brow or the Greek Freak wanted to leave their teams when they get closer to FA.
 
At this point I'm basically putting faith in Perry and Fizdale's judgment to get the right people on board. If there's anything I've learned in basketball is that we the fans are as much morons as Jim Dolan when it comes to roster construction
 
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cgf said:
but it’s not like we’ll be able to tank with a healthy KP, year 3 Frank, sophomore Knox & Mitch, and another high lotto pick, even if we strike out in FA.
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I don't think anyone is expecting the Knicks to be tanking after next season. But just being realistic, there is nothing in that quoted statement that is any kind of certainty. We don't know how this injury will affect KP long-term, we've literally only seen 3 weeks of Knox and Mitch in summer league, and the idea that "year 3 Frank" is going to be a drastically superior player to what we've seen is honestly pretty optimistic speculation.

Say for example we draft a "project" with that high lotto pick and strike out in FA. That team could just as easily end in the lottery again. (but I don't think they will because I trust Perry at this point)

Personally, I don't see Middleton, Kemba and KP as a realistic championship contender. I guess if the goal is to just field a team that can get to the playoffs, we could go that route.
 
cgf said:
Can someone explain to me why so many knicks fans think it’ll be the end of the world if we end up “blowing” our cap space on a 4 year 100-110M deal for Middleton & a 3 year deal for Kemba around 70-75M?

Obviously KD & Kyrie is the dream, but it’s not like we’ll be able to tank with a healthy KP, year 3 Frank, sophomore Knox & Mitch, and another high lotto pick, even if we strike out in FA.

So why not surround them with two of the best shooters in the game, one of whom can help frank run the team...like a rich man’s Childs & Ward...the other of whom can defend 2-4 & run some PNRs himself.

Both with a lot of tread left on their tires, and both of whom would be tradeable on those contracts in the future if the Brow or the Greek Freak wanted to leave their teams when they get closer to FA.
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Are they linked to Middleton now too? I know there’s been Kemba smoke forever, but I’d really much rather see them put thst money towards Durant.
 
ponzu4u said:
I don't think anyone is expecting the Knicks to be tanking after next season. But just being realistic, there is nothing in that quoted statement that is any kind of certainty. We don't know how this injury will affect KP long-term, we've literally only seen 3 weeks of Knox and Mitch in summer league, and the idea that "year 3 Frank" is going to be a drastically superior player to what we've seen is honestly pretty optimistic speculation.

Say for example we draft a "project" with that high lotto pick and strike out in FA. That team could just as easily end in the lottery again. (but I don't think they will because I trust Perry at this point)

Personally, I don't see Middleton, Kemba and KP as a realistic championship contender. I guess if the goal is to just field a team that can get to the playoffs, we could go that route.
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Other than KP still being KP does that matter? This was almost a playoff team last year because of how terrible the east is, and now LeBron is gone.

And it may not be a championship team right away, but it would ensure an environment where our kids can grow to their fullest. And if Frank, Knox & Little/Reddish make good on their potential around KP, Kemba & Khris; then that could be a championship team in a couple of years.

That’s why I see signing a big time FA as a move to continue building our culture & young kids up, moreso than as a “become a contender asap” move.
 
Mac n Gs said:
Are they linked to Middleton now too? I know there’s been Kemba smoke forever, but I’d really much rather see them put thst money towards Durant.
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Nah I’ve just seen some Knicks fans talking about how they hope the team doesn’t blow it’s wad on Kemba & Middleton if Kyrie & KD turn them down.
 
Kemba Walker is one of the best shooters in the game? There are dozens better than him.
 
cgf said:
Nah I’ve just seen some Knicks fans talking about how they hope the team doesn’t blow it’s wad on Kemba & Middleton if Kyrie & KD turn them down.
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I’d agree with them if that’s the case. Stay the course and spend the money wisely. I still have a feeling that KD is gonna be a Knick
 
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cgf said:
And if Frank, Knox & Little/Reddish make good on their potential around KP, Kemba & Khris; then that could be a championship team in a couple of years.
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I have zero belief that Frank will work out to be anything other than a bit player in the NBA. That's my expectation, if he proves me wrong then great but he's not the future of this team
 
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GordonGecko said:
I have zero belief that Frank will work out to be anything other than a bit player in the NBA. That's my expectation, if he proves me wrong then great but he's not the future of this team
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Im not sold on Frank either,but i do believe he can still be a valuable core piece through the years.He can defend multiple positions...like a Courtney Lee lite
 
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