World Cup: National Team threads #2

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

They’re basically in the also ran category. Couple great players, could advance far if fortunate, but no guaranteed results. So like England in 2014. Comfortably in the B tier with the Netherlands and Italy now. Portugal, France, Spain above the rest and England right behind them.

I think they’re above the Dutch. Better coached and have high end talent that the Dutch just lack.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

You're making a mountain out of a molehill by ignoring that we started with a back 3 before shifting to exactly that...

We need Wirtziala together and two of Rudi / Tah / Nico anchoring the defense, to win it all next summer. But that's not news.

We looked good until Gosens came on for Mittelstädt, despite all of the absences. How anyone less simple than our good friend Jack could act like that was anything other than encouraging is beyond me

I wish I was that optimistic. I don't see a fundamentally different team than the one showing under Flick and prior, even if there are better results. Hollow possession that doesn't produce enough quality opportunities, outclassed in the midfield, easily exploited in counterattack. I see a Round of 16 exit, maybe quarterfinal depending on draw.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I think they’re above the Dutch. Better coached and have high end talent that the Dutch just lack.

They should be, but the Dutch have enough firepower to exploit them so I wouldn't be all that confident in that matchup.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

England has glaring holes (CB, gk). Portugal doesn't.

Pickford has never been a problem for England (far better at NT level than club), so calling GK a “glaring hole” for England is putting paper over pitch.

Re: CBs - on paper mediocre, but England’s problems at major tournaments have not been defensive. At all. Part of that (not all, part) is because Southgate overcompensated for what he perceived as the issues with his CBs. Jury is out on how they’ll look under Tuchel. But England’s CBs have also been better for NT than club.

“Glaring holes” on paper do not necessarily look that way on grass.

 

[Live in the Now]

I think they’re above the Dutch. Better coached and have high end talent that the Dutch just lack.

I dunno the Dutch midfield and D is better. Forwards aren’t though.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I dunno the Dutch midfield and D is better. Forwards aren’t though.

Yup, but Koeman is such a liability.

anyway neither team is close to being the 2nd best team.

 

[cgf]

I wish I was that optimistic. I don't see a fundamentally different team than the one showing under Flick and prior, even if there are better results. Hollow possession that doesn't produce enough quality opportunities, outclassed in the midfield, easily exploited in counterattack. I see a Round of 16 exit, maybe quarterfinal depending on draw.

The possession hasn't been hollow when we've had Wirtsiala on the pitch. There's a reason Spain has been the only team that's been able to stand toe to toe with them and needed help from the refs to stop us.

 

[cgf]

They should be, but the Dutch have enough firepower to exploit them so I wouldn't be all that confident in that matchup.

We didn't even need musiala to beat the dutch with the NL group on the line and them desperate too show us up...

 

[cgf]

Portugal had missing players too. Yet carved up Germany at times with an idiot for a coach.

I just don’t see how this team can beat the field and take the WC. Way too many holes.

It all depends on health for us. We don't have the depth to be contenders no matter what, but if we've got Wirtsiala and 2 of our 3 CBs, there aren't many teams who can stand in our way. Just too strong all across the pitch with those cornerstones leading the way.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It all depends on health for us. We don't have the depth to be contenders no matter what, but if we've got Wirtsiala and 2 of our 3 CBs, there aren't many teams who can stand in our way. Just too strong all across the pitch with those cornerstones leading the way.

two players dont make a team. Your cbs aren't worldly players.

 

[cgf]

two players dont make a team. Your cbs aren't worldly players.

They can change one though

When we lose a match with wirtsiala starting, that the refs don’t afterwards apologize for screwing us in, you’ll have a point.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

You had one of them today and sucked… you as usual are way overrating your players.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

It all depends on health for us. We don't have the depth to be contenders no matter what, but if we've got Wirtsiala and 2 of our 3 CBs, there aren't many teams who can stand in our way. Just too strong all across the pitch with those cornerstones leading the way.

I don't think this is a realistic assessment. The defensive personnel are inconsistent and unlocked by the midfield getting overmatched. Wirtz and Musiala are class, but the overall build-up is far too slow and quality teams know they can clog the middle and force play outside for low percentage crossing. Goals are reliant on individual excellence.

The defense needs a high work rate ball winner to shield them and blunt the counterattack and the midfield as a whole needs to be guys that are going to make faster progressive plays, and get Wirtz and Musiala more space and opportunities in transition, rather than guys that constantly recycle possession.

 

[Evilo]

The one playing right back and the one on the bench?

Wow tough to look that bad that quickly.

 

[Evilo]

Ignoring Jude while hyping Bruno is peak Evilo

Jude is vastly overrated.

 

[Evilo]

Pickford has never been a problem for England (far better at NT level than club), so calling GK a “glaring hole” for England is putting paper over pitch.

Re: CBs - on paper mediocre, but England’s problems at major tournaments have not been defensive. At all. Part of that (not all, part) is because Southgate overcompensated for what he perceived as the issues with his CBs. Jury is out on how they’ll look under Tuchel. But England’s CBs have also been better for NT than club.

“Glaring holes” on paper do not necessarily look that way on grass.

Which is why I said "on paper" all along.

 

[cgf]

You had one of them today and sucked… you as usual are way overrating your players.

Do you just not read? I said we need both and you’re counter is well you didn’t have both today!!!

I don’t know why, but I expect better from you.

 

[cgf]

I don't think this is a realistic assessment. The defensive personnel are inconsistent and unlocked by the midfield getting overmatched. Wirtz and Musiala are class, but the overall build-up is far too slow and quality teams know they can clog the middle and force play outside for low percentage crossing. Goals are reliant on individual excellence.

The defense needs a high work rate ball winner to shield them and blunt the counterattack and the midfield as a whole needs to be guys that are going to make faster progressive plays, and get Wirtz and Musiala more space and opportunities in transition, rather than guys that constantly recycle possession.

It might seem that way on paper, but that’s just not what has happened on the pitch when we’ve had both of our aces on the pitch and Nagelsmann on the bench

 

[cgf]

If you don’t see it yet, you don’t see it yet. Nothing wrong with that, but you shouldn’t be surprised next summer.

 

[luiginb]

Wow tough to look that bad that quickly.

I come with facts, you answer with personal attacks.

 

[Evilo]

I come with facts, you answer with personal attacks.

First I said they were badly coached and your only argument was "well the coach put one on the bench"
Second, the game PROVED YOU WRONG. Vitinha and Neves were both essential to Portugal's victory, even with the stupidity of their coach.

So, facts? for the LOLZ sure. You missed. Again.

 

[luiginb]

First I said they were badly coached and your only argument was "well the coach put one on the bench"
Second, the game PROVED YOU WRONG. Vitinha and Neves were both essential to Portugal's victory, even with the stupidity of their coach.

So, facts? for the LOLZ sure. You missed. Again.

I also called Martinez clueless and I agree that once both of them were manning the midfield they dominated Germany (also because of Nagelsmann's bad subs).

But the FACTS still are one started on the bench and the other at right back, because their NT coach prefers a Saudi league player to start in central midfield instead of them. And among the three of us he's the only one paid for his football knowledge, regardless of our opinions of him.

 

[Evilo]

So your point denying that Portugal has two great midfielders but have a bad coach is saying.... they have a bad coach. And then the players went on to have a great game to even further illutrate that they have a bad coach and then anyone using his plans as proof is clueless.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Do you just not read? I said we need both and you’re counter is well you didn’t have both today!!!

I don’t know why, but I expect better from you.

Arguably second best teams missing one key guy up front shouldn’t be a big deal they shouldn’t go from second best team to horrible. That’s kind of my point you have some good pieces but overall the team just isn’t good enough.

 

[John Price]