Nathan Mackinnon - the best player in the league

[McPoyle]

Yall are way to angry on a friday night. Touch grass (or snow)

 

[Soundwave]

If MacK or Kucherov for that matter are way better players, then lets see say way better results on normalized teams, when Kucherov and MacK have to play on teams that aren't loaded around them, the playoff results are far more underwhelming.

Last two years, the two of them have 1 combined playoff round win, that's the same as the Toronto bros who are labelled choke artists. Not so easy to win when you don't have the deck stacked in your favor is it?

Getting beat in round 1 by maybe the worst team to make the playoffs in the last decade (Seattle) is quite a fall off because you lost a few players.

 

[PuckG]

Still do. All facts here. You want to magically move players around and not consider cap ramifications in make believe world. It’s not realistic.

The cap is not relevant in a direct comparison of talent between two players. Try again.

Pat Maroon is not better than McDavid because he has cups. Some common sense is required to isolate team awards and individual talent/skill.

 

[koyvoo]

At this point you guys seem like you’re trying to outstupid each other with your posts.

Do any of you ever consider the people who read these arguments who are not as emotionally invested in the subject matter and how dumb you seem to them?

But, carry on.

I guess they don’t.

 

[PuckG]

I broke google.


Thats a dumb argument. The same Avs roster would not have been possible around McDavid. You cant just magically assemble McDavid, Panarin, Matthews, Makar, and Shesterkin together and assume success.

Pat Maroon is not better than McDavid because he has cups. Some common sense is required to isolate team awards and individual talent/skill.

This thread is a comparison of talent. Changing goalposts to cap space worsens your argument.

At this point you guys seem like you’re trying to outstupid each other with your posts.

Do any of you ever consider the people who read these arguments who are not as emotionally invested in the subject matter and how dumb you seem to them?

But, carry on.

Not nearly as dumb as whining about posters debating a hockey topic in a hockey thread in a hockey forum. Touch grass.

 

[koyvoo]

Not nearly as dumb as whining about posters debating a hockey topic in a hockey thread in a hockey forum. Touch grass.

Touch grass. That’s an original thought.

No whining here, just pointing out the silliness of people making ridiculous reaches to insult one particular rival player/fanbase and not realizing or caring how they look like morons to all the other fanbases not so emotionally invested.

 

[PuckG]

Touch grass. That’s an original thought.

No whining here, just pointing out the silliness of people making ridiculous reaches to insult one particular rival player/fanbase while making themselves look like morons to all the other fanbases not so emotionally invested.

You’re emotionally invested enough to spend the time and comment on so called reaches. If you don’t want to talk hockey, move along…

 

[koyvoo]

I bet you think the other guys arguments are ridiculous, but not yours. lol.

 

[PuckG]

I bet you think the other guys arguments are ridiculous, but not yours. lol.

At the very least, other guy is arguing something tangible instead of whining about hockey posters posting in a hockey forum.

 

[koyvoo]

The other guy is arguing something tangible instead of whining about hockey posters posting in a hockey forum.

This is not about any particular poster in this thread. Both sides of the debate are doing the same thing, trying get one up in the other, not realizing or caring that they look like idiots to everyone else.

A laughing emoji. The ultimate sign of victory.

And, it’s not only you sorry ases in here who do it. It’s what this website has become. Sometimes people are unaware. I’ll do my best to make them aware.

 

[JLo217]

well if we judge by points , No
since 23 started until now including tonights game.

McDavid 135 69 + 171 = 240 1.777 ppg
McKinnon 132 69 +149 = 218 1.651 ppg
Kucherov 119 61 +142 = 203 1.705 ppg

Wrong

 

[benfranklin]

Pat Maroon is not better than McDavid because he has cups. Some common sense is required to isolate team awards and individual talent/skill.

This thread is a comparison of talent. Changing goalposts to cap space worsens your argument.

I never said he was. I said hypothetically if he did what the Dawg has done, then he would be in the covnersation.

Maroon has the Cups but not the individual accomplishments.
McDavid has the individual accomplishments, but not the Cups.
The Dawg has both.
Math is hard.

And since the beginning of last season to today, the Dawg is outproducing McDavid and as of typing this a hair above in ppg.

The only thing Oilers fans have to go off his 42 points in 25 playoff games while LOSING! Its sad. Id erase that run from my memory. You dont brag about losing. The Dawg won his Cup in 20 games and was a huge part of the best team we've seen assembled in decades.

Whether you like it or not, Cups are important and the Dawg just won his 3 seasons ago, and since then has taken a dump all over Edmonton.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

How nice it must be to draft a generational talent with the 1st overall pick.


-Yours Truly, a bitter NYR fan

 

[benfranklin]

How nice it must be to draft a generational talent with the 1st overall pick.


-Yours Truly, a bitter NYR fan

True, but you guys at least have an owner and a market to get any FA you want. I could see McDavid coming there next year.

 

[DavidHasselhoffsFist]

True, but you guys at least have an owner and a market to get any FA you want. I could see McDavid coming there next year.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

True, but you guys at least have an owner and a market to get any FA you want. I could see McDavid coming there next year.

Appreciate the thoughts and prayers but that's never gonna happen

 

[Juxta Position]

True, but you guys at least have an owner and a market to get any FA you want. I could see McDavid coming there next year.

for a fan of a team that has not lost to the Oilers in the playoffs, you sure harbor a lot of hate for them.

You're on multiple threads running anything Oilers down as much as you possibly can...The only reason i can think for that kind of hate for a team your team hasn't lost to when it matters is.....fear.

 

[WalterLundy]

I never said he was. I said hypothetically if he did what the Dawg has done, then he would be in the covnersation.

Maroon has the Cups but not the individual accomplishments.
McDavid has the individual accomplishments, but not the Cups.
The Dawg has both.
Math is hard.

And since the beginning of last season to today, the Dawg is outproducing McDavid and as of typing this a hair above in ppg.

The only thing Oilers fans have to go off his 42 points in 25 playoff games while LOSING! Its sad. Id erase that run from my memory. You dont brag about losing. The Dawg won his Cup in 20 games and was a huge part of the best team we've seen assembled in decades.

Whether you like it or not, Cups are important and the Dawg just won his 3 seasons ago, and since then has taken a dump all over Edmonton.

The 16 and 17 pens would beat the 22 avalanche hands down so to say they are the best team in decades is a crazy statement. Many other teams have arguments since 2000 of being better as well. MacKinnon was brought to his cup via Makar who was their best player and on a very balanced and deep team.

The difference in resume’s between “the Dawg” and McDavid is staggering. 2 Hart, 5 Art Ross, 3 Ted Lindsay, 4 first team all stars, 1 Rocket Richard and 1 Conn Smythe. The gap in their resumes is comparable if not better than the career accolades of a Sidney Crosby caliber/tier career.

MacKinnon has never once topped McDavid in points per game in a season by season basis with 2015-16 as the start point and may not this year as it is only nearly halfway. McDavid has better head to head stats for regular season and playoffs. He has two seasons that are more dominant over peers than anyone since Gretzky and Mario that dwarf anything any of his contemporaries have achieved. Despite starting his career in 2013-14 and playing 150 more games than McDavid (started in 2015-16) he still has 73 LESS points. McDavid has 3 more playoff points in 14 less playoff games.

McDavid’s stats for peak, prime, even game sample sizes and career mutilate MacKinnon’s. McDavid is actually the third fastest to reach 1036 career points (679 games) even edging out Mike bossy by a game. Only Gretzky and Lemieux have done it faster. MacKinnon will probably reach 1000 points a little slower than Malkin did.

The point here is that McDavid’s resume is literally equivalent to Lemieux minus one Ross while MacKinnon has one Hart in a season he was slightly outproduced by Kucherov for the Ross. All I’m sure I’ll hear is that he has the one championship on a loaded roster in which he wasn’t the best player on his own team, while ignoring that his regular season ppg from 2022 would see him as the third best oiler. I completely understand having favorites and rooting for players but at a certain point objectivity needs to prevail. You are blinded by hate and bias.

 

[PuckG]

I never said he was. I said hypothetically if he did what the Dawg has done, then he would be in the covnersation.

Maroon has the Cups but not the individual accomplishments.
McDavid has the individual accomplishments, but not the Cups.
The Dawg has both.
Math is hard.

And since the beginning of last season to today, the Dawg is outproducing McDavid and as of typing this a hair above in ppg.

The only thing Oilers fans have to go off his 42 points in 25 playoff games while LOSING! Its sad. Id erase that run from my memory. You dont brag about losing. The Dawg won his Cup in 20 games and was a huge part of the best team we've seen assembled in decades.

Whether you like it or not, Cups are important and the Dawg just won his 3 seasons ago, and since then has taken a dump all over Edmonton.

The “Dawg” has also been outplayed by McDavid for almost his entire career. One team award doesn’t trump that.

 

[the_fan]

The “Dawg” has also been outplayed by McDavid for almost his entire career. One team award doesn’t trump that.

Except when it counts the most. MacKinnon scored a goal and an assist in game 6 of the finals to win the cup, McDavid put up a big donut in game 7 of the finals to lose the cup. Those are the games which matter the most.

 

[PuckG]

Except when it counts the most. MacKinnon scored a goal and an assist in game 6 of the finals to win the cup, McDavid put up a big donut in game 7 of the finals to lose the cup. Those are the games which matter the most.

A one game sample size is just as dumb an argument as the one the other guy was parading around.

Remove their names and put their stats and accolades next to one another. McDavid still wins handily.

 

[the_fan]

A one game sample size is just as dumb an argument as the one the other guy was parading around.

Remove their names and put their stats and accolades next to one another. McDavid still wins handily.

Well then, if it’s game 7 of the finals, and I have to choose one player for just that one game, I’m taking MacKinnon because he proved he can come up clutch, and McDavid didn’t

 

[PuckG]

Well then, if it’s game 7 of the finals, and I have to choose one player for just that one game, I’m taking MacKinnon because he proved he can come up clutch, and McDavid didn’t

Again, if you’re making your pick off a one game sample size, it’s a poor decision.

Here’s some face value stats:

Player A in the playoffs: 37 goals, 80 assists, +28 (74GP) - 1.58 ppg

Player B in the playoffs: 48 goals, 66 assists, +33 (88GP) - 1.30 ppg

Both excellent players and both are justified to take anytime, but one is distinctly better in fewer games and on a worse team. A one game sample size doesn’t trump that.

 

[the_fan]

Again, if you’re making your pick off a one game sample size, it’s a poor decision.

Here’s some face value stats:

Player A in the playoffs: 37 goals, 80 assists, +28 (74GP) - 1.58 ppg

Player B in the playoffs: 48 goals, 66 assists, +33 (88GP) - 1.30 ppg

Both excellent players and both are justified to take anytime, but one is distinctly better in fewer games and on a worse team. A one game sample size doesn’t trump that.

Granted I’m an Avs fan and obviously bias, and while most people (even most Avs fans) will choose McDavid over MacKinnon, I’ll take MacKinnon because I like the power and physical side of Nate’s game. I was a huge Forsberg fan and the reason i became an Avs fan.

Also if or when MacKinnon wins more awards like the Ross and another Hart, adding to his championship, and being clutch when it matters the most, it’s gonna be a lot closer between him and McDavid as to who’s the better player.

 

[PuckG]

Granted I’m an Avs fan and obviously bias, and while most people (even most Avs fans) will choose McDavid over MacKinnon, I’ll take MacKinnon because I like the power and physical side of Nate’s game. I was a huge Forsberg fan and the reason i became an Avs fan.

Also if or when MacKinnon wins more awards like the Ross and another Hart, adding to his championship, and being clutch when it matters the most, it’s gonna be a lot closer between him and McDavid as to who’s the better player.

I think with the cup win, the argument for better career can already be had (assuming McDavid doesn’t get one).

But in terms of better talent, part of what gives McDavid the edge is how long and how consistently he’s done it. It’ll be extremely difficult to win anything close to what McDavid has from an individual standpoint with 1 Richard, 3 Harts and 5 Art Rosses.