Nathan Mackinnon - the best player in the league

[dirtydanglez]

Lol pffft mcdavod doesn't heat up until February ......


I don't under stand gore you don't think drai competes with the other 2 in tier 2 at a minimum

its close but i do think mack and kuch are in a tier of their own. drai is the clear cut #4 imo.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

MacKinnon has 10 empty net points this season. McDavid has 0.

These players aren't close.

Product of Draisaitl

 

[hamzarocks]

Lol pffft mcdavod doesn't heat up until February ......


I don't under stand gore you don't think drai competes with the other 2 in tier 2 at a minimum

He's close but he is the only one on that list who is the 2nd best player on his team vs Mack being clear cut best for Avs, Kuch being clear cut best for Bolts and Mcdavid clear cut for Oilers

I also think Draisaitl having been a top 5 player in the league started the latest of the three (Kucherov in 2017, Mack in 2018 and Drai in 2019) pushes him down a little bit for me.

I dont have an issue with him pushed to tier 2 on someone elses ranking but I got him 4th and a bit back of the other 2.

Kucherov if he wins the ross this year seperates himself from Mack for me and is clear cut #2

 

[Eltuna]

MacKinnon vs Drai is a more apt comparison than McDavid vs MacKinnon.

Especially when you consider the bump in stats MacKinnon had once he got Makar playing behind him. Or let me guess, Drai is the only one who benefits from having 4 other players on the ice?

Avs fan that agrees with this, Makar is closer to McDavid than either Drai or Mack are who are very similar to each other

McDavid
Makar
Mackinnon/Drai

Is how I would rank them in terms of talent

 

[Zerotonine]

He's close but he is the only one on that list who is the 2nd best player on his team vs Mack being clear cut best for Avs, Kuch being clear cut best for Bolts and Mcdavid clear cut for Oilers

I also think Draisaitl having been a top 5 player in the league started the latest of the three (Kucherov in 2017, Mack in 2018 and Drai in 2019) pushes him down a little bit for me.

I dont have an issue with him pushed to tier 2 on someone elses ranking but I got him 4th and a bit back of the other 2.

Kucherov if he wins the ross this year seperates himself from Mack for me and is clear cut #2

31 other gms take makar over Mackinnon which to me says Mackinnon isn't even the best on his team either lol.

 

[hamzarocks]

31 other gms take makar over Mackinnon which to me says Mackinnon isn't even the best on his team either lol.

No one takes Makar over Mackinnon. Not a single GM.

He cant play at the level he showed in 21/22 and is not the clear cut best D in the league with Q Hughes being as good/better for 2 years now. Big fall of in his defensive game for 2+ years now

Mackinnon has been the avs clear cut best player since 2022.

 

[GoldenKnight]

Mcdavids been the best player since the first week of November, it's not much of a debate. OP is just a hater.

Arguably.

McDavid needs to keep his hot streak up, several forwards have challenged him in recent times, which is shocking considering he is 27 years of age and ostensibly at his peak.

 

[nowhereman]

Avs fan that agrees with this, Makar is closer to McDavid than either Drai or Mack are who are very similar to each other

McDavid
Makar
Mackinnon/Drai

Is how I would rank them in terms of talent

Makar relies more on MacKinnon than MacKinnon relies on Makar. And the data supports this. Makar hasn't been in the conversation for 2nd best player in the league for a few years now. His offensive numbers are always impressive but he has struggled defensively for several seasons. At this point, Hughes is the best defenseman in the game.

 

[Video Nasty]

Arguably.

McDavid needs to keep his hot streak up, several forwards have challenged him in recent times, which is shocking considering he is 27 years of age and ostensibly at his peak.

He's had multiple upper and lower body injuries over the past 15 months. That’s why there is an illusion that he has fallen back to the pack. That’s how good he is, when their absolute peak rivals his nagging injuries stretch of play.

With 39 points in his last 20 games, he’s likely winning the Art Ross with 145+ points if he doesn’t miss any more games.

 

[benfranklin]

Best players in the world right now.

1. Makar
2. MacKinnon
intentional separation due to awesomeness/size of balls
3. McDavid
intentional separation due to awesomeness/size of balls
4. Kucherov
5. Kaprisov
intentional separation due to awesomeness/size of balls
6. Draisaitl
7. Rantanen
8. Eichel
9. Marner
10. Reinhart

 

[Regal]

Makar relies more on MacKinnon than MacKinnon relies on Makar. And the data supports this. Makar hasn't been in the conversation for 2nd best player in the league for a few years now. His offensive numbers are always impressive but he has struggled defensively for several seasons. At this point, Hughes is the best defenseman in the game.

I wouldn’t say he’s struggled defensively for a few years. His defensive numbers have been strong every year but last year, and they were decent at ES. It was really only his PK numbers last year that were bad. His offensive numbers have struggled a lot away from MacKinnon since ‘22, and his possession numbers along with them, but the Avs have also had some pretty bad depth since then. His defensive numbers are slightly better without MacKinnon.

 

[WalterLundy]

He's had multiple upper and lower body injuries over the past 15 months. That’s why there is an illusion that he has fallen back to the pack. That’s how good he is, when their absolute peak rivals his nagging injuries stretch of play.

With 39 points in his last 20 games, he’s likely winning the Art Ross with 145+ points if he doesn’t miss any more games.

Context is key yet so ignored. The guy is so obviously capable of something in the 160s for a full 82 games. Took his foot off the gas and tried to help other teammates hit milestones in 2023 after game 72. Once he got his 60th goal it was cruise control. Had 60 G and 138 P in 72 games. 70 goals and 160 points were in play. Can’t critique that masterpiece of a season though. 2021’s shortened schedule stifled any actual chance of it but he was only getting better as the season went on. 160 for sure would have been on the table. Last year he had 116 in his final 60 games after his injury recovery which again is 160 territory. 39 in his last 20 this year speaks to this again. Just needs better luck and to attack it from the jump. There is no other player in the NHL on the level of McDavid when healthy/rolling.

 

[JLo217]

Best pure player talent wise: McDavid

Best all around: Mackinnon

 

[Eltuna]

Makar relies more on MacKinnon than MacKinnon relies on Makar. And the data supports this. Makar hasn't been in the conversation for 2nd best player in the league for a few years now. His offensive numbers are always impressive but he has struggled defensively for several seasons. At this point, Hughes is the best defenseman in the game.

As an Avs fan that’s watched every game I like Makar as a talent more than Mack, last year was the only time I thought Mack was better since Makars break out. Makar in 2022 was one of the best playoff runs I’ve ever seen, only bettered by McDavids in recent history.

Hughes is great but I look at him vs Makar like a Mackinnon or Drai vs McDavid. All great players but two stick out as truly special with potential to be all timers and it’s Makar and McDavid

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Best pure player talent wise: McDavid

Best all around: Mackinnon

Yep. And McKinnon by a good margin.

Once Mack also starts to play his best again he will blow the doors off the art ross race. It’s already becoming a route anyway. Mcdust is like 9 points behind lmao

 

[Fishy McScales]

Yep. And McKinnon by a good margin.

Once Mack also starts to play his best again he will blow the doors off the art ross race. It’s already becoming a route anyway. Mcdust is like 9 points behind lmao

And you make this case while referring to McDavid as "Mcdust"?

As far as tear-filled bait threads from Leaf fans this has to be one of the more pathetic ones in a while hahaha

 

[MMANumminen]

Carried to stardom by Rantanen

 

[LokiDog]

Ranking is pretty fluid and objective when you’re talking about the 5-6 best players in the world, but for my money Mackinnon is the best combination of dominant production and being an absolute joy to watch. I love his game. I saw that chart about top skating speeds and speed bursts above 32km/hr and such and Mackinnon leads the bursts category by over 100. He’s super fun to watch.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

Ranking is pretty fluid and objective when you’re talking about the 5-6 best players in the world, but for my money Mackinnon is the best combination of dominant production and being an absolute joy to watch. I love his game. I saw that chart about top skating speeds and speed bursts above 32km/hr and such and Mackinnon leads the bursts category by over 100. He’s super fun to watch.

Good analysis.

What I don’t understand is when I make this point, everyone is so defensive over McDust. The reality is that the top player can change every night based on who’s playing the best. Kuch, McDust, Mack, Drai have all held the crown at various points.

Mcdust is not the CONSENSUS best player let alone the best player

 

[nowhereman]

Good analysis.

What I don’t understand is when I make this point, everyone is so defensive over McDust. The reality is that the top player can change every night based on who’s playing the best. Kuch, McDust, Mack, Drai have all held the crown at various points.

Mcdust is not the CONSENSUS best player let alone the best player

I'm a Canucks fan and a member of Team Crosby, so I have every reason to hate on McDavid. But I see no argument for anyone but him at the top of the league. Some players may have better seasons or stretches of play but McDavid is the only guy consistently at the top, year-after-year.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I'm a Canucks fan and a member of Team Crosby, so I have every reason to hate on McDavid. But I see no argument for anyone but him at the top of the league. Some players may have better seasons or stretches of play but McDavid is the only guy consistently at the top, year-after-year.

His name is mcdust

 

[LTIR]

I'm a Canucks fan and a member of Team Crosby, so I have every reason to hate on McDavid. But I see no argument for anyone but him at the top of the league. Some players may have better seasons or stretches of play but McDavid is the only guy consistently at the top, year-after-year.

Meh, as an Oilers fan I love threads like these... yup Nate Mack is clearly the GOAT with no one close.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Last year according to avs fans and avs forum it was very much not okay, and was used in an argument why MacK had the best season. Now that MacK is pacing for 21 ENP it’s all crickets… we just want consistency from avs fans

Lol, it’s crickets because they know he shouldn’t be in the conversation for hart, regardless of EN points. They championed their guy when he was deserved and haven’t when he hasn’t this year. Pretty consistent I’d say.

Makar relies more on MacKinnon than MacKinnon relies on Makar. And the data supports this. Makar hasn't been in the conversation for 2nd best player in the league for a few years now. His offensive numbers are always impressive but he has struggled defensively for several seasons. At this point, Hughes is the best defenseman in the game.

Spoken like someone who does indeed rely on stats as opposed to watching the game. Thanks for clarifying that you need to look at spreadsheet to help parse information on players you don’t regularly watch. Not a bad thing in moderation in conjunction with actually viewing the player.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

What I don’t understand...

They'll need to upgrade the servers if you plan to tackle this.

 

[crowfish]

Anyone who honestly claims MacKinnon > McDavid must not watch the games, because the eye test is another thing from stats. It's never looked close in that department especially if you have watched them play live.

You also have this going on, where for some reason the team with the most dynamic talent in the league's history are getting the 33rd most powerplay ice time per game (since 2023-24). yes, both Arizona and Utah both got more lol in the past 2 seasons. And before someone says look at powerplay opportunities instead, the problem there is I can't even count the number of times the Oilers get their powerplay nullified from an offensive zone call. Is there a stat somewhere that records interrupted powerplays? Either way, neither ice time nor PPO are perfect. (Oilers are still 26th at PPO)

I think I know what happened here, the NHL saw the historic powerplay the Oilers had in 2022 and decided that having a team be that good at scoring powerplay goals was not very fair to the others, So they got new special standards in 2023 and it has carried through to 2024. It is laughable the amount of stuff teams get away with vs the Oilers. Oiler games get officiated like game 7s most nights. 1-2 powerplays, and if you have the lead good luck because nothing the other team can do will get them shorthanded. This is my opinion as Canuck fan who watches every game of both the Canucks & the Oilers. A badly officiated Canuck game feels like about 2 out of every 10 games, a properly officiated Oilers game feels like 2 out of 10. That's just my subjective take.