Nathan MacKinnon, on par with the best in business?

[authentic]

What did I just read

Look at their stats since the start of last season, better yet look at their stats with a goalie in the opposing net. MacKinnon is like a combo of Point and Kucherov with his zone entries and being a complete center on top of being just as dangerous in the offensive zone.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

MacKinnon > Kucherov and Draisaitl.

Translated for you.

The poster seemed to be surprised that the majority of people who watch these players feel Kucherov is on the same tier as MacKinnon.

Like really who are we kidding, who watches these players and thinks Kucherov and Draisaitl are as good as MacKinnon?

The 'who' is the majority of rational hockey fans. I am surprised by your surprise.

Look at their stats since the start of last season, better yet look at their stats with a goalie in the opposing net. MacKinnon is like a combo of Point and Kucherov with his zone entries and being a complete center on top of being just as dangerous in the offensive zone.

Watch the games.

Edit: I actually dug up their stats. They both enter the zone with a near 100% accuracy rate per possession. It is no surprise though, they are two of the best players in the world, providing similar value for their teams.

 

[Panthaz89]

Before MacKinnon actually broke out and Kucherov remained at such a high level, there was a legit argument. Realistically, until last season, he had an argument to be in that spot. MacKinnon and Kucherov blew him out of the water since then.

I suggest you look at Draisaitl's placements over the past several years before saying anyone blew him out the water.....

 

[Panthaz89]

Look at their stats since the start of last season, better yet look at their stats with a goalie in the opposing net. MacKinnon is like a combo of Point and Kucherov with his zone entries and being a complete center on top of being just as dangerous in the offensive zone.

Kucherov had more points last season and even played 1 less game.

 

[benfranklin]

I suggest you look at Draisaitl's placements over the past several years before saying anyone blew him out the water.....

Did

23-24 - 47.6%+
22-23 - 48.7%+
21-22 - 36.7% +

That is the ice time spent with McDavid on the ice with him. Draisiaitl is an elite finisher and playmaker on the PP. Pretty useless everywhere else.

Kucherov had more points last season and even played 1 less game.

And lost the Hart and Lindsay in dominating fashion. Almost like points arent everything, especially empty net points. Who knew!

 

[Panthaz89]

Did

23-24 - 47.6%+
22-23 - 48.7%+
21-22 - 36.7% +

That is the ice time spent with McDavid on the ice with him. Draisiaitl is an elite finisher and playmaker on the PP. Pretty useless everywhere else.

And lost the Hart and Lindsay in dominating fashion. Almost like points arent everything, especially empty net points. Who knew!

pretending that he's much better than either of them is beyond help.

 

[benfranklin]

pretending that he's much better than either of them is beyond help.

I didnt say it, but yes this is how I rank the current players.

McDavid - MacKinnon

Kucherov - Makar

Panarin - Eichel - Kaprisov

Rantanen - Draisaitl - Pastrnak - Matthews - Crosby

 

[Video Nasty]

Hmm, I don’t think anyone thought Benn was the better player, but he was certainly getting himself into the conversation if Kane didn’t obliterate everyone in 2015-16. It’s not looking like anyone’s going to be surpassing MacKinnon by much this season.

Hmm, now what could possibly be in play here?

Yes, no one thought Benn was better—that’s why it was an embarrassment for Crosby to finish behind him twice in a row. So why could there possibly be an interest in crowning a pair of far better players than Benn, Tavares, Kane, and so on, so quickly when they had their likely peak, perfect storm seasons while McDavid was battling nagging injuries all season long?

Hmm, it’s almost as if we’re here, ten or so years later, and Crosby’s legacy must be protected because someone better showed up after him and has dominated more than even the most optimistic what if projections attributed to Crosby.

Weird how the mindset has shifted from not making stupid comments about Benn actually being better than Crosby to oh, MacKinnon in particular is better than McDavid because he had one perfect season while McDavid was injured level of stupidity?

Couldn’t possibly be Crosby fans in thinly veiled disguises protecting their hero in a roundabout way.

 

[Duke74]

Did

23-24 - 47.6%+
22-23 - 48.7%+
21-22 - 36.7% +

That is the ice time spent with McDavid on the ice with him. Draisiaitl is an elite finisher and playmaker on the PP. Pretty useless everywhere else.

And lost the Hart and Lindsay in dominating fashion. Almost like points arent everything, especially empty net points. Who knew!

Useless? Going back to 2016-17, Draisaitl is third in EV points, behind only McDavid and MacKinnon. In that time, Mac has literally two more EV points than Draisaitl.

 

[benfranklin]

Hmm, now what could possibly be in play here?

Yes, no one thought Benn was better—that’s why it was an embarrassment for Crosby to finish behind him twice in a row. So why could there possibly be an interest in crowning a pair of far better players than Benn, Tavares, Kane, and so on, so quickly when they had their likely peak, perfect storm seasons while McDavid was battling nagging injuries all season long?

Hmm, it’s almost as if we’re here, ten or so years later, and Crosby’s legacy must be protected because someone better showed up after him and has dominated more than even the most optimistic what if projections attributed to Crosby.

Weird how the mindset has shifted from not making stupid comments about Benn actually being better than Crosby to oh, MacKinnon in particular is better than McDavid because he had one perfect season while McDavid was injured level of stupidity?

Couldn’t possibly be Crosby fans in thinly veiled disguises protecting their hero in a roundabout way.

You cant pull the injured card when he played 76 games.

And well done making your entire post with a sarcastic smartass condescending tone. Its truly hateable.

Useless? Going back to 2016-17, Draisaitl is third in EV points, behind only McDavid and MacKinnon. In that time, Mac has literally two more EV points than Draisaitl.

And cant do it without McDavid. I could finish sitting around waiting for McDavid to give me the puck too.

 

[CanadienShark]

I suggest you look at Draisaitl's placements over the past several years before saying anyone blew him out the water.....

I'm referring to this season and last season. They're clearly ahead of Draisaitl. Before that, there was an argument.

 

[Video Nasty]

Useless? Going back to 2016-17, Draisaitl is third in EV points, behind only McDavid and MacKinnon. In that time, Mac has literally two more EV points than Draisaitl.

We should also acknowledge that Draisaitl is the only player since Gretzky to finish top 4 in both goals and points for five consecutive seasons.

 

[Video Nasty]

You cant pull the injured card when he played 76 games.

And well done making your entire post with a sarcastic smartass tone. Its truly hateable.

Hate me all you want. I already know you don’t watch the games, you’re not familiar with McDavid’s play night in and night out, and you don’t remember what events led to McDavid being rushed back early out of desperation.

There’s something called playing through injuries when the team around you isn't constructed in the correct way to withstand you missing more than two games in a row before full blown panic sets in.

 

[Master P]

I didnt say it, but yes this is how I rank the current players.

McDavid - MacKinnon

Kucherov - Makar

Panarin - Eichel - Kaprisov

Rantanen - Draisaitl - Pastrnak - Matthews - Crosby

Is this bait?

Because it feels like bait.

 

[Duke74]

And cant do it without McDavid. I could finish sitting around waiting for McDavid to give me the puck too.

Ah yes. A narrative older than time itself. Did you know that when Draisaitl is separated from McDavid, he plays with two fourth liners? Check out tonight’s projected Oiler lines. He’s playing with, or rather neutralized by, Podzkolzin and Connor Brown. Meanwhile MacKinnon is stapled to 100-point Rantanen.

 

[benfranklin]

Hate me all you want. I already know you don’t watch the games, you’re not familiar with McDavid’s play night in and night out, and you don’t remember what events led to McDavid being rushed back early out of desperation.

There’s something called playing through injuries when the team around you isn't constructed in the correct way to withstand you missing more than two games in a row before full blown panic sets in.

I dont hate you personally at all. The way you talk is very condescending and that sucks. Makes it so you cant have a rational conversation.

Thats incompetence by him or the Oilers then. He missed 6 games and received 1 Hart trophy vote. It wasnt close even though points were.

 

[benfranklin]

Ah yes. A narrative older than time itself. Did you know that when Draisaitl is separated from McDavid, he plays with two fourth liners? Check out tonight’s projected Oiler lines. He’s playing with, or rather neutralized by, Podzkolzin and Connor Brown. Meanwhile MacKinnon is stapled to 100-point Rantanen.

So poor Oilers management then? I dont know what to tell you. Id say the same thing about Rantanen. I want to see them do it without their counterpart.

Also math guy here, McDavid and Draisaitl so far this season have been on the ice around 46% of the time together so far.

 

[Three On Zero]

So poor Oilers management then? I dont know what to tell you. Id say the same thing about Rantanen. I want to see them do it without their counterpart.

Rantanen is also a natural winger playing his natural position, it’s not a team stacking centers to create a line.

 

[Duke74]

So poor Oilers management then? I dont know what to tell you. Id say the same thing about Rantanen. I want to see them do it without their counterpart.

Oilers management is the laughing stock of the league.

 

[Video Nasty]

I dont hate you personally at all. The way you talk is very condescending and that sucks. Makes it so you cant have a rational conversation.

Thats incompetence by him or the Oilers then. He missed 6 games and received 1 Hart trophy vote. It wasnt close even though points were.

1. I change how I talk when interacting with certain members. @authentic is one where I level up my intensity because he gives as good as he gets and vice versa.

I’ve noticed you being condescending, so I’ve tailored our passing interactions accordingly.

2. The Oilers incompetence is widely known by this point. McDavid, while presumably an intelligent modern athlete, knows management will use and abuse to cover up their shortcomings. Yet he’s also the best at his craft and a highly competitive athlete who is still not even 28 years old. He will do what it takes to rejoin them as quickly as possible to help them win as much as possible. There’s no incompetence on his part.

McDavid had already won three Harts, been a finalist two other times, and been a top 5 nomination over the course of the previous seven seasons, while scooping up 5 Art Rosses and 4 Lindsays. He is judged against his own already higher standard than the next best players.

He’s battling that perception, so when the next best two players in world go out and have world beater seasons while fully healthy, and one of them had a reputation for always being the bridesmaid for the Hart, that one is going to be given it at the next best reasonable opportunity. It doesn’t mean MacKinnon didn’t earn it, it doesn’t mean he didn’t deserve it, but it is questionable to read much of anything into McDavid receiving a lone first place vote.

 

[benfranklin]

1. I change how I talk when interacting with certain members. @authentic is one where I level up my intensity because he gives as good as he gets and vice versa.

I’ve noticed you being condescending, so I’ve tailored our passing interactions accordingly.

2. The Oilers incompetence is widely known by this point. McDavid, while presumably an intelligent modern athlete, knows management will use and abuse to cover up their shortcomings. Yet he’s also the best at his craft and a highly competitive athlete who is still not even 28 years old. He will do what it takes to rejoin them as quickly as possible to help them win as much as possible. There’s no incompetence on his part.

McDavid had already won three Harts, been a finalist two other times, and been a top 5 nomination over the course of the previous seven seasons, while scooping up 5 Art Rosses and 4 Lindsays. He is judged against his own already higher standard than the next best players.

He’s battling that perception, so when the next best two players in world go out and have world beater seasons while fully healthy, and one of them had a reputation for always being the bridesmaid for the Hart, that one is going to be given it at the next best reasonable opportunity. It doesn’t mean MacKinnon didn’t earn it, it doesn’t mean he didn’t deserve it, but it is questionable to read much of anything into McDavid receiving a lone first place vote.

So whats your guess of what he does next season contract wise?

 

[Video Nasty]

So whats your guess of what he does next season contract wise?

As you said, it’s just a guess, but based off everything I’ve seen from him, Drai resigning, and that sneaking suspicion that he knows his legacy will be stronger if he wins a Cup with the team that drafted him, I would be mildly shocked if he doesn’t resign.

 

[benfranklin]

As you said, it’s just a guess, but based off everything I’ve seen from him, Drai resigning, and that sneaking suspicion that he knows his legacy will be stronger if he wins a Cup with the team that drafted him, I would be mildly shocked if he doesn’t resign.

Interesting. Maybe me hoping or thinking the NHL will nudge him, but this is a Gretzky-like opportunity to go somewhere and make a splash/story/put NHL on the map.

My guess is LA.

 

[Three On Zero]

Interesting. Maybe me hoping or thinking the NHL will nudge him, but this is a Gretzky-like opportunity to go somewhere and make a splash/story/put NHL on the map.

My guess is LA.

McDavid doesn’t have the personality of a player who will chase a cup, his career will live and die in Edmonton. This is his big pay day, what Edmonton will give him over 8 years other teams won’t be able to match it over 7 + the sweetener to have him move.

McDavid and the new arena helped stabilize the Edmonton franchise, not sure why the NHL would try and nudge him away from that.

 

[benfranklin]

McDavid doesn’t have the personality of a player who will chase a cup, his career will live and die in Edmonton. This is his big pay day, what Edmonton will give him over 8 years other teams won’t be able to match it over 7 + the sweetener to have him move.

McDavid and the new arena helped stabilize the Edmonton franchise, not sure why the NHL would try and nudge him away from that.

McDavid goin to Utah or LA or TOR or NYR or 90% of cities instead of Edmonton would be great for the game.