Nashville Predators Talk - 2024/2025 Season

[glenngineer]

A lot to unpack here.

I'll start with something simple. One thing that has masked a lot failures over the years is the depth of the d-corp and what they provided for us. One was great D with the other being a significant amount of offense. As we've moved on from certain players or they've aged out, we are left with Josi as the only offensive threat. We have a combined 70 points from all our d this year, 46 of which are from Josi and Skjei. We've been top 5 for so long with our offensive contributions from our back end that is supplemented our lack of scoring from our forwards. Now that we're not getting that combined with forwards that aren't producing as expected, it's killing us. Now on to the fun stuff.

We have our second 3 game-winning streak going right now. We're halfway through the season. Not acceptable. Why has it taken until the last 4 games for us to look like an organized team in a system that appears engaged?

My worry is if we continue this type of play, even if for another 10-20 games, the coach and moreso the GM will think that is the truth and not look at what we've seen the majority of the season. We went on a nice run last year and Trotz based his moves off of a mirage and if we as fans can see it as such, how can a guy in hockey as long as he's been not see it for that too?

I don't sit down at the TV on any given night going, I sure hope the other team wins tonight or I hope the Preds keep their losing ways. I have found myself on some nights going, I hope the other team keeps the lead or that they make a comeback and beat us. I have never thought that way. I went to the Winnipeg game back in November that we won 4-1 hoping we'd lose so it would be the last time I had to see Brunette behind the bench.

It's also really hard to listen to the broadcast team continue to talk about how the bounces haven't gone our way blah blah blah. It's an excuse. The last 4 games, the team has been engaged and guess what, pucks are finding the back of the net. It had nothing to do with bad luck, it had to do with a lack of effort and the results showed. If the team had shown the same level of intensity since game 1, we might not be where we are.

My ambivalence towards the team is caused by the way the team has played the majority of the season and the decisions the staff has made. Nothing more, nothing less. I would after being here as long as I've been people would know the one thing I want for the team and this fan base is a Cup. We got a GM who said he wants to get out of the mushy middle. He said he wanted to see the kids so he'd be able to evaluate what he's got. He's made moves that have made me question the direction of this team. I'm allowed to be frustrated, even if misguided in my thoughts and actions.

I know there are risks with sucking, tanking, even losing as evidenced by other teams. There are also risks to continue to be what we've been. Do I want to see us lose games, of course not. At the same time with what I've seen from this team this year, it makes it hard for me to be excited about winning because if it pushes us to the mushy middle as opposed to a 1C via the draft, it's just more of the same next year and the years after. For all the crap we've had to watch this year, it would be nice if it panned out into an exciting young player that we can build the future around.

 

[Viqsi]

I guess I'm not quite sure what the anti-rebuild folks actually want.

I'm anti-tanking, not anti-rebuilding. Rebuilding is necessary at this point. The point is don't try to lose. It's not something you can just abruptly turn on and off.

 

[Viqsi]

I mean more power to some of you for being ok in the mushy middle but we've been mid since 2020 and it's been incredibly boring for me at least outside of a 18 game win point streak.

I understand we have three wins in a row, but this isn't a playoff team. They aren't. And if we do go on some run and end up 15th or whatever in the league how is that going to help the future of this retooling? Trotz is going to take that as this team had 3 rough months, load up or do nothing in the off-season and then we are potentially back where we were at the start of the year.

Let me give you a number: 7.

7 playoff series wins in 25 years. Almost half of those came in one year.

Meanwhile, teams that tore it down over that same twenty years with the exception of some outliers like Columbus and Buffalo have won more or the same number of series.

Anaheim is a perfect example of a team that had their window and it shut in 2018. They are currently in the process of their rebuild. It takes time.

San Jose is another perfect example.

I don't blame anyone for wanting the team to win games. It doesn't feel natural for wanting your team to lose. But 7 series wins in 25 years. We aren't doing something right.

It's the ones that have those big bouncebacks that are the outliers, and they've had similarly small competitive windows. You're playing a blind optimism game, and you're treating all rebuilds as equal when there are huge, significant differences between how teams do this sort of thing.

I want my parents to see a cup win in their life. The longer we delay a true tear down the less likely that is to happen

Unfortunately, this is an unrealistic motivation. It is literally harder to win your division in this modern era than it was to win a Cup in the O6 and expansion eras.

 

[Viqsi]

But you are assuming Bruno was going to play those youngsters, which again, is a problem with how this team is being run regardless of tank/not tanking mentality.

To the point of Anaheim, I think there is an issue with coaching and an issue with the GM side of things just a little. I also know they have been waffling on trading Gibson and Fowler for years (Fowler just got moved this year) but not moving on from their vets didn't help.

Again 7 series wins in 25 years. I'll give a pass to the first decade or so because expansion teams back then sucked but what excuse do we have after that?

Your logical fallacy is the texas sharpshooter

You cherry-picked a data cluster to suit your argument, or found a pattern to fit a presumption.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

Nashville has far more playoff appearances than many of those teams you're talking about "tearing down". You're focusing on series wins because it maximizes the appearance of misery.


I swear to G-d, it's like I'm right back in HFCBJ circa 2020-2023. The same varieties of nonsense again and again and again by the shortsighted and the desperate.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

It's the ones that have those big bouncebacks that are the outliers, and they've had similarly small competitive windows. You're playing a blind optimism game, and you're treating all rebuilds as equal when there are huge, significant differences between how teams do this sort of thing.

Unfortunately, this is an unrealistic motivation. It is literally harder to win your division in this modern era than it was to win a Cup in the O6 and expansion eras.

I think your experience with Columbus is perhaps blinding you a bit. I know it's been a tough uphill struggle for the Jackets.

Which teams do you think are the outliers over the last 20 years?

I just don't considered playoff appearances special anymore. It was in the early 2000s, it was after cursed years of 2013. Half the teams make it.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'm anti-tanking, not anti-rebuilding. Rebuilding is necessary at this point. The point is don't try to lose. It's not something you can just abruptly turn on and off.

I don't think such a thing as "try to lose" even exists, not in any real-time on-ice sense of things. Not even for the consciously tanking teams. All the coaches, all the players, on all the teams, are trying to win, every game, regardless. I take that for granted.

What we're talking about here is at a higher level. The goal is actually to try to win even at that higher level too though... it's just the timeframe is different than on a per game basis. It's the player personnel decisions you make to try to maximize winning potential. Just... those wins might be realized a little further down the road.

So, in a practical sense, what does that mean specifically for our team the rest of this season? See if you can trade any and all of the following: Lauzon, Schenn, Sissons, Nyquist, McCarron/Jankowski/Smith. Replace them with younger, faster players. Increase the roles and icetime afforded to younger players. There could be an irony in the sense that such moves might actually improve the immediate performance of our team as well. But regardless, you ostensibly make the moves with an eye to improving future performance and accept with it any harm that does occur in the short-term performance. You don't shy away from making those moves simply out of a desire to win more hockey games this season, at any rate. And all the way along, each and every player you put on the ice is still trying their utmost to win each and every hockey game.

Is that "trying to lose"?

 

[Viqsi]

I think your experience with Columbus is perhaps blinding you a bit. I know it's been a tough uphill struggle for the Jackets.

Which teams do you think are the outliers over the last 20 years?

Pittsburgh and Chicago.

 

[Viqsi]

I don't think such a thing as "try to lose" even exists, not in any real-time on-ice sense of things. Not even for the consciously tanking teams. All the coaches, all the players, on all the teams, are trying to win, every game, regardless. I take that for granted.

What we're talking about here is at a higher level. The goal is actually to try to win even at that higher level too though... it's just the timeframe is different than on a per game basis. It's the player personnel decisions you make to try to maximize winning potential. Just... those wins might be realized a little further down the road.

So, in a practical sense, what does that mean specifically for our team the rest of this season? See if you can trade any and all of the following: Lauzon, Schenn, Sissons, Nyquist, McCarron/Jankowski/Smith. Replace them with younger, faster players. Increase the roles and icetime afforded to younger players. There could be an irony in the sense that such moves might actually improve the immediate performance of our team as well. But regardless, you ostensibly make the moves with an eye to improving future performance and accept with it any harm that does occur in the short-term performance. You don't shy away from making those moves simply out of a desire to win more hockey games this season, at any rate. And all the way along, each and every player you put on the ice is still trying their utmost to win each and every hockey game.

Is that "trying to lose"?

No, that's fair.

It's possible I see people talk about "wanting to lose" and am immediately jumping to memories of folks cheering against their team and wanting to throw away absolutely everything that isn't immediately a savior superstar. There's some PTSD there.

 

[herzausstein]

Ill just say....

It would suck to be this terrible for half the season and be this close to possibly drafting a 1C only to turn around and end up drafting a more middling prospect in the low teens. The wins would be nice and hockey more enjoyable to watch though

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Ill just say....

It would suck to be this terrible for half the season and be this close to possibly drafting a 1C only to turn around and end up drafting a more middling prospect in the low teens. The wins would be nice and hockey more enjoyable to watch though

Well, unfortunately, it's going to suck. This team, first half+ evidence to the contrary, is just not bad enough to ultimately finish in a top3/top5 draft position. It's going to be exacerbated as a few of these teams ahead of us start selling off productive players that we won't be able to because of NMCs. I still think 10-12 is where we'll ultimately end up.