Not everyone is ready to be 1c on day one. Look at Jack Hughes. Robert Thomas took 4 years. But even on both of those guys, it was always clear they were future 1c which is I think what you were driving at.
Nashville Predators Talk - 2024/2025 Season
- Thread starter AtlantaWhaler
- Start date
glenngineer
Registered User
Correct. I could’ve stated it a little better. Thanks for clarifying my thoughts.
Porter Stoutheart
Seen Stamkos?
- Jun 14, 2017
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Let me try the math on that... the centers drafted in the #20-32 spots in the last 8 years... not including 2024 because that's too soon to even have any inkling of how guys are progressing. I'll give them a "yes", "no", "DQ"... yes if they make the cut, no if they don't, and DQ if they were never really centers to begin with and everybody knew it. There are several who it's not determined yet, but if they're looking good and on track I'll give those a "yes". I'll get a few wrong, but there are enough that hopefully it'll be in the error bars.
So in total we have:
24 qualified players
18 regular NHLers (green or orange) = 75%
9 with top-6 aspirations (green) = 37.5%
It's all "-ish", but then IMHO so is Cozens. If we really focused on picking the best guy who really looks like a "True Center" with a late 1st, we'd have at least a decentish shot at getting somebody. Better than 10%. Not as good as 50%.
Of course we all know that the "Nashville Odds" are 0% regardless.
2023
(DQ) Charlie Stramel - was never going to be a C
(No) Otto Stenburg - I doubt it
(Yes) Calum Ritchie - looking great
(Yes!) David Edstrom - we can only hope
2022
(No) Nathan Gaucher - not looking good
(No) Filip Bystedt - looking good, but jury out
(No) Jiri Kulich - looking good, but jury out
(No) Brad Lambert - bust
2021
(DQ) Xavier Bourgault - not a C
(Yes) Wyatt Johnston - awesome pick
(DQ) Zachary Dean - not a C
2020
(Yes) Hendrix Lapierre - off to a good start
(Yes) Conor Zary - over 0.5ppg
(No) Ridley Grieg - more like a 3rd liner?
(No) Brendan Brisson - bust
(Yes) Mavrik Bourque - on his way
(DQ) Ozzy Wiesblatt - not a C
2019
(DQ) Phillip Tomasino - not a C
(Yes) Connor McMichael - PPG this year #2C at least
(No) Ryan Suzuki - bust
(DQ) John Beecher - not a C
(No) Shane Pinto - close, he's making $3.75M and scored 20 goals...
2018
(No) Rasmus Kupari - bottom-6 NHLer
(No) Isac Lundestrom - bottom-6 NHLer
(No) Joe Veleno - bottom-6 NHLer
2017
(Yes) Robert Thomas - bona fide #1C
(Yes) Filip Chytil - decent injury prone #2C
(No) Ryan Poehling - decent bottom-6 C
(No) Morgan Frost - decent but not really a C?
(No) Shane Bowers - bust
(DQ) Klim Kostin - not a C at all and never was
Roman Yoshi
#164303
And the sad thing is Johansen is the best center we've had since Arnott
I didn't see Saturday's game but I see the Tennessean is blaming Del Gaizo for the late second period goal. It's sad that this is the media coverage.
Did Del Gaizo ultimately turn the puck over? Yes. Did Del Gaizo have any help or support on the ice while trying to advance the puck out of the zone? No.
It's easy to see in the video clip posted with the article that Del Gaizo has, basically, three choices.
1) He can ice the puck. (Bad)
2) He can try to put the puck past all the opposition into the Avs defensive zone buy the puck would never get there because the avs weren't changing and it was 1v5. (Bad)
3) Skate with the puck and try to wait for help. Unfortunately for Del Gaizo this turned out to be bad too because there was no help coming. Two forwards went for a change a third forward was on the far side of the ice looking for a pass that couldn't be made. And, the worst part, his D partner was also in the Nzone on the far side of the ice looking for a pass that couldn't be made.
The least bad option would have been icing but the kid probably would have been dinged by the coaches and announcers for that anyway so he was trying to be a hero and hold the puck while his teammates went for a skate.
What should have really happened was the D partner should have been behind Del Gaizo and available as a passing option. BUT, that's not the "system" so goals against is what you get.
Did Del Gaizo ultimately turn the puck over? Yes. Did Del Gaizo have any help or support on the ice while trying to advance the puck out of the zone? No.
It's easy to see in the video clip posted with the article that Del Gaizo has, basically, three choices.
1) He can ice the puck. (Bad)
2) He can try to put the puck past all the opposition into the Avs defensive zone buy the puck would never get there because the avs weren't changing and it was 1v5. (Bad)
3) Skate with the puck and try to wait for help. Unfortunately for Del Gaizo this turned out to be bad too because there was no help coming. Two forwards went for a change a third forward was on the far side of the ice looking for a pass that couldn't be made. And, the worst part, his D partner was also in the Nzone on the far side of the ice looking for a pass that couldn't be made.
The least bad option would have been icing but the kid probably would have been dinged by the coaches and announcers for that anyway so he was trying to be a hero and hold the puck while his teammates went for a skate.
What should have really happened was the D partner should have been behind Del Gaizo and available as a passing option. BUT, that's not the "system" so goals against is what you get.
MDG has had a rough go this season. I don't think playing with Schenn helps his game at all. He's pretty talented offensively but needs a partner who can erase his defensive lapses, and Schenn is not that man
Armourboy
Hey! We suck!
So even with the 37% you have several that are still up in the air and we have no clue about, you are more or less just being generous. Probably by the time its all said and done the number of true top 6 you get out of that list will be alot closer to my 10% than anything remotely looking like even a 50/50 shot.Let me try the math on that... the centers drafted in the #20-32 spots in the last 8 years... not including 2024 because that's too soon to even have any inkling of how guys are progressing. I'll give them a "yes", "no", "DQ"... yes if they make the cut, no if they don't, and DQ if they were never really centers to begin with and everybody knew it. There are several who it's not determined yet, but if they're looking good and on track I'll give those a "yes". I'll get a few wrong, but there are enough that hopefully it'll be in the error bars.
So in total we have:
24 qualified players
18 regular NHLers (green or orange) = 75%
9 with top-6 aspirations (green) = 37.5%
It's all "-ish", but then IMHO so is Cozens. If we really focused on picking the best guy who really looks like a "True Center" with a late 1st, we'd have at least a decentish shot at getting somebody. Better than 10%. Not as good as 50%.
Of course we all know that the "Nashville Odds" are 0% regardless.
2023
(DQ) Charlie Stramel - was never going to be a C
(No) Otto Stenburg - I doubt it
(Yes) Calum Ritchie - looking great
(Yes!) David Edstrom - we can only hope
2022
(No) Nathan Gaucher - not looking good
(No) Filip Bystedt - looking good, but jury out
(No) Jiri Kulich - looking good, but jury out
(No) Brad Lambert - bust
2021
(DQ) Xavier Bourgault - not a C
(Yes) Wyatt Johnston - awesome pick
(DQ) Zachary Dean - not a C
2020
(Yes) Hendrix Lapierre - off to a good start
(Yes) Conor Zary - over 0.5ppg
(No) Ridley Grieg - more like a 3rd liner?
(No) Brendan Brisson - bust
(Yes) Mavrik Bourque - on his way
(DQ) Ozzy Wiesblatt - not a C
2019
(DQ) Phillip Tomasino - not a C
(Yes) Connor McMichael - PPG this year #2C at least
(No) Ryan Suzuki - bust
(DQ) John Beecher - not a C
(No) Shane Pinto - close, he's making $3.75M and scored 20 goals...
2018
(No) Rasmus Kupari - bottom-6 NHLer
(No) Isac Lundestrom - bottom-6 NHLer
(No) Joe Veleno - bottom-6 NHLer
2017
(Yes) Robert Thomas - bona fide #1C
(Yes) Filip Chytil - decent injury prone #2C
(No) Ryan Poehling - decent bottom-6 C
(No) Morgan Frost - decent but not really a C?
(No) Shane Bowers - bust
(DQ) Klim Kostin - not a C at all and never was
Armourboy
Hey! We suck!
While you may be right, NIF is also right. MDG looks worse than he should because the system is playing to his ( and several others ) weaknesses rather than their strengths. The idea that everyone would bail out of a zone and leave one man dealing with pressure anyway you want to look at it is a bad idea, even for a great defender.
Porter Stoutheart
Seen Stamkos?
- Jun 14, 2017
- 16,271
- 12,935
All I was talking about was "#2C options", which I think actually I was rather more pessimistic about in my list, since I already counted out a few guys who were at least that at one point (Frost) or could still be considered that if you were going to be optimistic about it (Bystedt). And which is all Cozens is at this point as well. So I'm comfortable with my 50/50 proposition. If we scout well, we should have something closer to a 50% chance of getting a player who can be looked at as a "#2C option", at least for a while, like Cozens, rather than just a 10% chance.
The real problem is that we already know the final outcome answer is probably 0% with the way we draft and develop players for that position for some reason.
I'd agree. Schenn is a guy you don't want to touch the puck. He's been a detriment to anyone he's been paired with.
All kidding aside, I am not sure if drafting a #1C would be the best idea for this Org! They have not shown that they know how to prepare a young kid to be a full time NHL player and especially a #1C. The ONLY player that has made it to top 6 is FF9 and some were not sure he would make it. I think instead of drafting a #1C they should trade for one so they don't have to train the player.
The interesting part about FF, and I think this point was made somewhere in another thread, but these guys tend to walk in, and you know they are immediately a top 6 or top line player. You don't see guys gradually climbing the ladder to the top line. That's why I often hesitate to just pencil a guy working his way up the lineup, just because it's rare to see in our organization. Whether that's due to the organization screwing things up, or the player just being what they are it's consistently happened. Vange is the guy I most recently was convinced was going to climb to the top line, but he's basically been what he's been since he came in, and again that could definitely be due to our organization, or it could just be that he's a 20/20 type guy.
Well with those options and you are 1 on 2 with the 2 being Rantanen and MacKinnon, you ice the puck. At least you would have 5 players on the drop. He was in a no win situation. Ice it and hope you win the draw.
Since the Preds don't put any of their top young players on the top line for an extended look, we'll never know. Sure they may get a couple of shifts due to injury or someone sitting in the box but thats about it. But if they make a bad pass or something then they get yanked back to the 3-4 lines. That's how BT was a coach. And especially if you did not play a heavy D. Lavy's first 2 years were probably the most exciting brand of Preds Hockey, maybe ever. Not sure we will ever see that style again with this leadership.
Jack Hughes would've been sent to the AHL during his sophomore season if Bruno and GMBT were in charge
Roman Yoshi
#164303
Svech sent down. That's all you need to really know about our current outlook.
Makes sense to send svech back. Only need one young player keeping the pressbox company and Pärssinen has that on lock.
Looks like we will still be running our AHL defense as well.
Predsanddead24
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2019
- 6,066
- 7,016
Ultimately I'm glad we're sending him down if we're not going to give him any real opportunity. It is wild that while he wasn't lighting the world on fire he had 8 games of solid play and then one bad game where he was a -3 and that was it for him.
He looks like he's playing trying not to screw up still to me. He didn't really jump into the flow of the game. He had flashes of play, and then times where it looked like he was thinking about what he should be doing and then it's too late. Things will slow down for him hopefully, but certainly not in the pressbox. I didn't see anything that made me think he should go down, but realistically I bet Trotz was planning this all along unless he just exploded when he got his chance. He thinks guys need to yo-yo up and down, taking little bites of the league until they can belly up to the full plate.
You and I can say, "just dump the puck in that situation" and that is exactly what I would teach my players to do.
BUT
He is a young guy that has already spent time in the pressbox for a "reset" so not being aggressive and icing the puck as a smart play isn't earning him icetime.
Roman Yoshi
#164303
My point regarding Svech being sent down is that he should be replacing a vet in the lineup as we aren't making the playoffs. Let the young guys make mistakes and grow.
Roman Yoshi
#164303
I posted this in the around the NHL thread but watching the Duchene spitting chicklets interview: I'm really not sure I trust Preds management anymore. You give up on a guy who wants to be here, wants to give things a chance with a new coach.
I dunno man. I'm starting to think Trotz is the real problem here.
I dunno man. I'm starting to think Trotz is the real problem here.
Bringer of Jollity
Registered User
I was fine with Duchene but could buy into the set of moves as being part of this big culture shift and an overhaul of the roster (which we all knew was needed) and going in a younger direction. And last year it was mostly...fine? I mean, Duchene's secondary scoring would have filled a needed gap and the sidelining of Tomasino, Parsnip, and Fabbro sucked, but you could kind of see where we were heading.
After this off-season and season though? So we bascially took a guy that wanted to be in Nashville and was willing to "buy in" and effectively replaced him with two guys that were just chasing a last payday (and aren't even as good as he is at this point). Our team culture still sucks, the "youth movement" was terminated in the womb... I'll say again, what the f*** are we even doing here?
