Nashville Predators Talk - 2024/2025 Season

[Viqsi]

I’m perfectly happy to say that Duchene wouldn’t be performing as well here as he is in Dallas but I also think it’s a bit ridiculous to say he can’t play C and O’Reilly is clearly better when Duchene is playing C and is leading one of the top teams in the league in points

When you have fantastically amazing wingers that can handle most of what a C does, you don't need someone who can carry the position there.

 

[Kat Predator]

When you have fantastically amazing wingers that can handle most of what a C does, you don't need someone who can carry the position there.

Wait. What? Are you saying there is such a thing as complementary skill sets?

Why that's ... genius!

 

[wmupreds]

Can we please not pretend that Duchene here would look anything like the Duchene on an absolutely loaded forward group that is Dallas?

WRT RoR... i believe it has been said several times around here that he is absolutely not an ideal 1C. Should be a 2C max but he is easily the best actual center currently with the team.

It's not so much "would Duchene look exactly the same here" as it is "should we be paying Duchene millions to still be a productive player elsewhere?"

I'm not convinced the intangibles (negative, supposedly, in Duchene's case) were so critical that he needed to be bought out. Certainly our current performance with a bunch of serial winners isn't making that case very persuasively.

 

[Predsanddead24]

It's not so much "would Duchene look exactly the same here" as it is "should we be paying Duchene millions to still be a productive player elsewhere?"

I'm not convinced the intangibles (negative, supposedly, in Duchene's case) were so critical that he needed to be bought out. Certainly our current performance with a bunch of serial winners isn't making that case very persuasively.

Yeah I’m not saying Duchene is Crosby or McDavid type at 1C to lead the team to a Cup. But I think he’s also shown throughout his career that he’s perfectly capable of being successful playing center when put in the right situation. And he’s certainly way better than any of our other center options outside of maybe O’Reilly. The other thing is if it’s true that O’Reilly wouldn’t come here with Duchene on the roster than I think we’re seeing that may say more about O’Reilly than Duchene.

 

[Armourboy]

Yeah I’m not saying Duchene is Crosby or McDavid type at 1C to lead the team to a Cup. But I think he’s also shown throughout his career that he’s perfectly capable of being successful playing center when put in the right situation. And he’s certainly way better than any of our other center options outside of maybe O’Reilly. The other thing is if it’s true that O’Reilly wouldn’t come here with Duchene on the roster than I think we’re seeing that may say more about O’Reilly than Duchene.

Considering some of the other feathers Duchene has ruffled over the years I don't think it does. I just think it says that ROR didn't care for the way he did things.

One led a team to a Cup, the other has never come close to anything like that.

ROR is struggling in this system just like everyone else is on the team. Duchene, if here, would be too because it stinks.

 

[herzausstein]

I’m perfectly happy to say that Duchene wouldn’t be performing as well here as he is in Dallas but I also think it’s a bit ridiculous to say he can’t play C and O’Reilly is clearly better when Duchene is playing C and is leading one of the top teams in the league in points

He couldnt beat out the ghost of RyJo and Granlund to get the center spot here. We didnt have the wing depth and still dont to put him in that position. The quality of dallas' forward group is far ahead of ours

 

[glenngineer]

Considering some of the other feathers Duchene has ruffled over the years I don't think it does. I just think it says that ROR didn't care for the way he did things.

One led a team to a Cup, the other has never come close to anything like that.

ROR is struggling in this system just like everyone else is on the team. Duchene, if here, would be too because it stinks.

My question is why? It's not like he wasn't here last year and had to relearn it. It's not like he didn't start the year with the same linemates. I worried about ROR's footspeed last year. This year he looks cooked.

I keep seeing we need a 2C when in reality we need a 1C so we can bump ROR to 2C at a bare minimum.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Considering some of the other feathers Duchene has ruffled over the years I don't think it does. I just think it says that ROR didn't care for the way he did things.

One led a team to a Cup, the other has never come close to anything like that.

ROR is struggling in this system just like everyone else is on the team. Duchene, if here, would be too because it stinks.

O'Reilly didn't leave Colorado or Buffalo on good terms either. O'Reilly himself admitted to adopting a losing attitude in Buffalo. Which is to say just because Duchene was a crappy teammate during his time in Colorado I don't really think that reputation is deserved anymore. The teams he's left in recent years certainly haven't looked any better once he was gone at a minimum. If O'Reilly still can't bury the hatchet with a guy he butt heads with when they were in their early 20s for the good of the team that's not a great look to me. Although I'm not sure the O'Reilly refused to play with Duchene thing is actually true so maybe I shouldn't have even brought it up. I guess I should also clarify that I'm not comparing prime O'Reilly to prime Duchene because in that case it's no doubt O'Reilly, but rather where these guys are at this point in their careers. I lived in St. Louis for some of the O'Reilly years so I watched a lot of them and O'Reilly was fantastic then, but he's a fraction of the defensive player he was at that point. Maybe that's all because of the system but I also think he's just lost a step and isn't as surehanded as he was in St. Louis either.

He couldnt beat out the ghost of RyJo and Granlund to get the center spot here. We didnt have the wing depth and still dont to put him in that position. The quality of dallas' forward group is far ahead of ours

Coaching struggled to find a way to make him work at center here. I don't know why O'Reilly gets the coaches can't use him right pass while Duchene doesn't. Different coaches but I think it still applies. And yes Dallas's forward group is better than ours but Duchene is also leading that forward group in most categories. His linemates are Marchment who is having a career year and Seguin who is having the best year since his return from major injuries in 2021. Going into the season if I were a center I definitely would have chosen Forsberg and Nyquist as my linemates over those two.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Considering some of the other feathers Duchene has ruffled over the years I don't think it does. I just think it says that ROR didn't care for the way he did things.

One led a team to a Cup, the other has never come close to anything like that.

ROR is struggling in this system just like everyone else is on the team. Duchene, if here, would be too because it stinks.

To me, Duchene at $8M was just revolting to think about. He was a skilled guy who had his tendencies and foibles, but end of the day, he did have skill. He'd get his goals and assists, and whether that meshed particularly well with his teammates or a gameplan, that might not have been a big issue - **IF** you didn't have him by default as a Core Player signed to a mega long-term contract at big $$$.

Now, he slides into Dallas making $3M, and OMG yes... give me a guy who can be ~PPG at $3M, I'll live with his warts and foibles all day long on a $3M/1yr contract. Think about it. He makes less than Novak. I have not been a huge Duchene fan over the years. But would I take him over Novak? You bet I would. (And I also like Novak). It's just down to the contract/expectations.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I love ROR, but his last year in St Louis was disaster too. He wasn’t on,y problem, but he looked spent. The fresh start in Toronto helped a bit and then Nashville last year, but don’t think he is difference maker anymore. If we adopt get this turned around soon, I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing what he could fetch.

 

[triggrman]

Ideally he's a 2nd line center but since he's the closest thing we have to a top line center, it is what it is. I do think for last year, ROR was better for Nashville than Duchene was for Dallas. This year just got started.

 

[herzausstein]

Ror vs duchene is pure expectations for the players. The team was doing good when we got duchene vs team going into retool with ror. Honestly, ror did better than i expected him to last season. Coming of a 30P in 53 games season. His career looked to be on the last legs. This season is more around expectations (50ish points). Also, who the heck else do we have to replace him? Sissons? Novak is the black sheep of our centers, Parssinen likely wont get a shot either because Bruno. You work with what you got and what we got at C sucks.

Duchene was given unrealistic expectations coming off a great season (70 pts in 73 games). His career norm is mid 60s in a full season. He was never gonna live up to it. I remember many of us thinking wed finally have a 1/2 punch down the center only for that idea to be cast aside a week or two into the season.

 

[weeze]

Idk, I'm still fine with the Ekholm trade. Shaefer could be a solid bottom 6er (thinking Trenin-type) and Molendyk looks like a good pick so far. It made sense at the time and if anything, it helped break up the country club that everyone was complaining about. Don't lose your memory looking in the hindsight mirror

Well we also thought Fiala was a good pick (was) and was traded. Thought ET was a good pick (was) and was waived. Fabbro (rinse and repeat). Next is PT and Juuso. This Org seems to only like trades and not their top picks.

 

[Armourboy]

My question is why? It's not like he wasn't here last year and had to relearn it. It's not like he didn't start the year with the same linemates. I worried about ROR's footspeed last year. This year he looks cooked.

I keep seeing we need a 2C when in reality we need a 1C so we can bump ROR to 2C at a bare minimum.

I don't think the system is the same, I certainly don't remember our Dmen spending this much time as a group down in front of the net or in the corners. Josi might have done that, but I don't remember it being a group wide effort.

I'd also ask if something didn't change then why is everyone else struggling too? It's not like Forsberg, Nyquist, Novak, Evangelista or heck even Josi aren't setting the world on fire either.

 

[Predsanddead24]

To me, Duchene at $8M was just revolting to think about. He was a skilled guy who had his tendencies and foibles, but end of the day, he did have skill. He'd get his goals and assists, and whether that meshed particularly well with his teammates or a gameplan, that might not have been a big issue - **IF** you didn't have him by default as a Core Player signed to a mega long-term contract at big $$$.

Now, he slides into Dallas making $3M, and OMG yes... give me a guy who can be ~PPG at $3M, I'll live with his warts and foibles all day long on a $3M/1yr contract. Think about it. He makes less than Novak. I have not been a huge Duchene fan over the years. But would I take him over Novak? You bet I would. (And I also like Novak). It's just down to the contract/expectations.

Yeah this is the thing with me. Bringing in Duchene to that big of a contract was a poor decision. But I also think buying him out and paying a huge cap hit for him not to play with us was also a mistake.

Ror vs duchene is pure expectations for the players. The team was doing good when we got duchene vs team going into retool with ror. Honestly, ror did better than i expected him to last season. Coming of a 30P in 53 games season. His career looked to be on the last legs. This season is more around expectations (50ish points). Also, who the heck else do we have to replace him? Sissons? Novak is the black sheep of our centers, Parssinen likely wont get a shot either because Bruno. You work with what you got and what we got at C sucks.

Duchene was given unrealistic expectations coming off a great season (70 pts in 73 games). His career norm is mid 60s in a full season. He was never gonna live up to it. I remember many of us thinking wed finally have a 1/2 punch down the center only for that idea to be cast aside a week or two into the season.

I agree with most of this but I also don’t think the team was doing all that good when we brought Duchene in. The Stars series in 2019 was the start of the decline from contender to where we are now. But instead of recognizing it we brought Duchene in to the big dollar contract which didn’t really address the issue that our defense which was the core of the team was falling apart. Obviously I have the benefit of hindsight to make that observation but the Duchene signing was controversial even at that time because while people recognized that he was a good player he also wasn’t the missing piece back to get us back to contender status.

I think I mostly agree with you on this topic but I don’t agree with the original statement that Duchene can’t play C and that O’Reilly is the clearly better option between the two at this point. Duchene might not be able to be “the guy” but he’s a perfectly capable C in the right situation which I think is also how I’d describe O’Reilly at this point. Really more than anything I think the Duchene saga from his signing with us to today is just a good representation of the issues with our front office where we make a lot of moves that look decent on paper but in whole don’t have a coherent plan for getting us back to contender status.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't think the system is the same, I certainly don't remember our Dmen spending this much time as a group down in front of the net or in the corners. Josi might have done that, but I don't remember it being a group wide effort.

I'd also ask if something didn't change then why is everyone else struggling too? It's not like Forsberg, Nyquist, Novak, Evangelista or heck even Josi aren't setting the world on fire either.

I don't want to seem to panicky or whatever... but... how does ANYBODY look at our group of players and think that this gameplan of jumping the D and trying to play a fast/aggressive style would EVER work? I mean, it's just a complete non-starter, right?

If you absolutely had to try to play that style, you'd have to cut out several players, replace them with younger/faster guys, and live with the growing pains? Which is also the complete opposite to what we've been doing.

I don't think we're all idiots here in recognizing that, despite that we aren't paid to be NHL coaches or GMs. How on earth do the guys who actually are in charge get away with continuing to think this might work?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think I mostly agree with you on this topic but I don’t agree with the original statement that Duchene can’t play C and that O’Reilly is the clearly better option between the two at this point. Duchene might not be able to be “the guy” but he’s a perfectly capable C in the right situation which I think is also how I’d describe O’Reilly at this point. Really more than anything I think the Duchene saga from his signing with us to today is just a good representation of the issues with our front office where we make a lot of moves that look decent on paper but in whole don’t have a coherent plan for getting us back to contender status.

I think Duchene at C is sort of like... Novak or Turris? No, they aren't PERFECT centers. Or I guess throw Parssinen into that mix if you don't like his speed. Players have warts. Duchene really didn't seem to see his linemates well, nor backcheck with gusto. Ok. That's not ideal. But. If he could score almost a PPG despite that, maybe it's better than your next base option?

Sometimes you just have to recognize the players you have, utilize them in ways that maximize their POSITIVES, and acknowledge their imperfections? We don't seem to have much of that going on?

 

[herzausstein]

Yeah this is the thing with me. Bringing in Duchene to that big of a contract was a poor decision. But I also think buying him out and paying a huge cap hit for him not to play with us was also a mistake.


I agree with most of this but I also don’t think the team was doing all that good when we brought Duchene in. The Stars series in 2019 was the start of the decline from contender to where we are now. But instead of recognizing it we brought Duchene in to the big dollar contract which didn’t really address the issue that our defense which was the core of the team was falling apart. Obviously I have the benefit of hindsight to make that observation but the Duchene signing was controversial even at that time because while people recognized that he was a good player he also wasn’t the missing piece back to get us back to contender status.

I think I mostly agree with you on this topic but I don’t agree with the original statement that Duchene can’t play C and that O’Reilly is the clearly better option between the two at this point. Duchene might not be able to be “the guy” but he’s a perfectly capable C in the right situation which I think is also how I’d describe O’Reilly at this point. Really more than anything I think the Duchene saga from his signing with us to today is just a good representation of the issues with our front office where we make a lot of moves that look decent on paper but in whole don’t have a coherent plan for getting us back to contender status.

Yeah we just disagree about Duchene playing the center position. I dont think he would do good here being the top center. RoR isnt great either but if i have to pick only 1, im going with RoR.

Agree that buying out duchene and having 5.55 million in dead cap is ridiculous especially when you turn around and give stamkos 8.0 million. I guess duchene just doesnt have that winning culture in him. We could have just 1.5 more years of paying duchene 8 million instead of 3.5 years of paying stamkos.

I think this is part of our inability to draft forwards and develop them into much. There are a few notable exceptions here and there but we havent drafted/developed a top notch center and tend to try and patchwork things in free agency and trades that blow up in our faces.

 

[darth5]

I am beginning to think this system currently in use will not work with this roster (as others are saying). The new additions are too slow and our D corps is not up to it either. I am baffled that Bruno and company can't recognize this.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I am beginning to think this system currently in use will not work with this roster (as others are saying). The new additions are too slow and our D corps is not up to it either. I am baffled that Bruno and company can't recognize this.

Bruno not seeing his flaws is one thing but the fact that Trotz seems perfectly content to keep continuing down this path is what's wild to me. Trotz is an all time great coach so it really does make me wonder what he sees in this coaching staff that I don't.