Nash and the Ref?

[Wisent]

Serious or not, but unfortunately the incident also sends a message to young players that refs are not untouchable anymore.

Recently there's been talk about cleaning hockey, but it seems to be more hot air than anything else. 'No action' seems to be the policy. Pretty pathetic.

Totally agree.

 

[shakes]

Funny how the strongest proponents of suspensions and lynchings for Canada's leading scorer are from teams from the other "medal favorites". i wonder if any of you or the Swedish coach would have cared as much if it was Boyle or Morrow that did this great injustice that even the on ice officials didn't deem a problem.

 

[Westlander]

Canada invented the game, that doesn't mean it's yours. BigE seems to think that it's unfair that Canada has to play games on neutral ice, with neutral refs and rules decided upon by all hockey playing nations, because it's Canadas game...

I don't think there is another sport in the world where two of the three biggest international tournaments are refereed by referees from just one of the particapating countries. If England suggested that all referees in the soccer World Cup should be english, because England invented soccer, UEFA would laugh right in their face!

I think the point that BigE was trying to make was that the modern game of hockey was invented in Canada, and played with NHL rules. The larger ice, shootouts, etc were European add-ons. Therefore this tournament has a decidedly European leaning. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but there is very little in the World Championships that is to Canada's advantage, and the idea that Canada gets preferential treatment is absolute rubbish. Anyone who's watched this tournament over the years knows that.

And yes, the fact that we invented the game does make it ours in one irrefutable sense. That can never be changed.

 

[Badman]

NHL refs are used in the World Cup of Hockey because they are the best refs in the world. I don't think you can argue that. It was a decision made by all of the participating countries, not just the North American teams.
Or do you honestly think the refs at these world championships keep a better grip on things than NHL refs.
If you think these refs are excellent, then clearly Nash should get no penalty, because that is how the referee of record saw it.

If I played in the most important tournament in a sport I would rather have a referee of slightly lesser quality than a referee from my opponents country...

And I don't buy that "NHL refs are the best in the world" thing. Many of them are among the best in the world, but I see no reason why Europe having produced 30-40 percent of the best players in the world shouldn't automatically produce a simillar percentage of the best referees as well.

 

[Westlander]

No, I believe the roots are in Scotland, or thats what NHL.com suggested a few years back. You must be scottish then. You wear a kilt by any chance?

You're being facetious my friend. You dispute that the game as we know it today came from Canada? There are claims that a game similar to hockey originated here in the Netherlands too. (I am half Scottish actually)

 

[Egil]

Referee's, like players, get better as they officiate (play) better players. NHL Referee's referee the BEST players in the world, and as such, they are best able to cope with the high class international tournaments. Just like the best soccer officials come from Europe (they get to referee the best on a regula basis), so the best Hockey officals come from NA.

BTW, the lockout and resulting influx of talent to Europe will only make European referees better. I suspect that many European referees are better (or certainly capable of becoming better) than many in the NHL (and epecially the AHL and lower leagues). I think the NHL would be well served to recruit referees from around the world, and not just in the AHL.

 

[shakes]

If I played in the most important tournament in a sport I would rather have a referee of slightly lesser quality than a referee from my opponents country...

And I don't buy that "NHL refs are the best in the world" thing. Many of them are among the best in the world, but I see no reason why Europe having produced 30-40 percent of the best players in the world shouldn't automatically produce a simillar percentage of the best referees as well.

Maybe not, but you opinion doesn't matter.. if the players think that the NHL refs are the best in the world then they will show them respect, but if they don't have that belief, they will try to get away with anything they can. Not just Canadian players.. ALL players in this tournament. Then you see refs trying to get ahold of the game by giving out 15 penalties. Until the mindset changes, it will continue to be a double edge sword for them.

 

[BigE]

Westlander is bang-on in his interpretation of my comments.

 

[deandebean]

The real underlying message here is not about the refs nor Nash. It's about a team manager/coach giving our guys some incentive for our next meeting with the Swedes.

Just like Gretz did in Salt Lake, guys will rally around this incident. Us against the world.

Man, this canadian team is struggling, let it go to sleep. Instead, the Swedes are trying to wake it up. Typical.

 

[norrisnick]

NHL refs are used in the World Cup of Hockey because they are the best refs in the world. I don't think you can argue that. It was a decision made by all of the participating countries, not just the North American teams.
Or do you honestly think the refs at these world championships keep a better grip on things than NHL refs.
If you think these refs are excellent, then clearly Nash should get no penalty, because that is how the referee of record saw it.

NHL refs were used in the World Cup because it is an NHL tournament played with NHL rules on NHL ice.

 

[Badman]

I think the point that BigE was trying to make was that the modern game of hockey was invented in Canada, and played with NHL rules. The larger ice, shootouts, etc were European add-ons. Therefore this tournament has a decidedly European leaning. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but there is very little in the World Championships that is to Canada's advantage, and the idea that Canada gets preferential treatment is absolute rubbish. Anyone who's watched this tournament over the years knows that.

And yes, the fact that we invented the game does make it ours in one irrefutable sense. That can never be changed.

As in most other sports the rules are made in a democratic way with all participating countries by the International Federation, where Canada of course is a member and have voting rights. So the rules are not European, they're the International hockey rules.

You say that there is very little in this tournament that is to Canadas advantage. Well, good! Unlike the World Cup, and to a lesser extent the Olympics, where the rules are to Canadas advantage. If you really want to find out who's the best at playing hockey everything should be as equal as possible. And in my opinion neutral refs, alternating hosts and rules decided by all participants are a good way to start.

And as to hockey being "your" game. Canada is the home of hockey, but it's everybodys game.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Funny how the strongest proponents of suspensions and lynchings for Canada's leading scorer are from teams from the other "medal favorites". i wonder if any of you or the Swedish coach would have cared as much if it was Boyle or Morrow that did this great injustice that even the on ice officials didn't deem a problem.

It wasnt the coach it was the GM. I dont care if its Rick Nash or for example Vladmir Kopat. IMO the thing is had been Kopat he would have been suspended.

The real underlying message here is not about the refs nor Nash. It's about a team manager/coach giving our guys some incentive for our next meeting with the Swedes.
Just like Gretz did in Salt Lake, guys will rally around this incident. Us against the world.
Man, this canadian team is struggling, let it go to sleep. Instead, the Swedes are trying to wake it up. Typical.

The other teams can use it aswell, it goes both ways, and i fail to see how the canadian players can use an "attack" on a ref as a boost.

 

[deandebean]

Oh! and by the way, it's not the first incident with a canadian player hitting a euro ref: remember 72. Jean-Paul Parize hit one with his stick, violently that time (I think the ref was called Mikkola or something like that). Zach's father lost it because the refs were on the team's back all the time.

We're getting good at this.

 

[deandebean]

It wasnt the coach it was the GM. I dont care if its Rick Nash or for example Vladmir Kopat. IMO the thing is had been Kopat he would have been suspended.

The other teams can use it aswell, it goes both ways, and i fail to see how the canadian players can use an "attack" on a ref as a boost.

I guess you euros don't understand how Canada works as a hockey nation. Remember 72. Us against the Soviet system. Win at all cost, even if it meant beating Kharlamov to submission (Clarke and the tomahawk chop). 2002. Us against the World, dixit Gretzky.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that the next time the 2 teams will meet, some Swedish heads are going to fly because of the manager's doings. I'm sure Alfie's not very pleased with what his organisation has done.

It's a no-no to send a tv shot (no even a penalty called) and ask for a suspension. At least, on this side of the ocean. It's part of the unwritten code.

 

[deandebean]

This canadian team is not strong AT ALL. It's got major flaws and we all know why.

But if some organisation takes pleasure into trying to influence the IHF, you bet that our guys over there, even if they don't represent our best unit, are going to regroup.

The beast is asleep. This team does not have any intensity going. Why wake it up? That, my friend, you'll have to explain to me.

 

[norrisnick]

It's a no-no to send a tv shot (no even a penalty called) and ask for a suspension. At least, on this side of the ocean. It's part of the unwritten code.

No it isn't. Bowman did it ALL the time.

 

[markov`]

This canadian team is not strong AT ALL. It's got major flaws and we all know why.

But if some organisation takes pleasure into trying to influence the IHF, you bet that our guys over there, even if they don't represent our best unit, are going to regroup.

The beast is asleep. This team does not have any intensity going. Why wake it up? That, my friend, you'll have to explain to me.

Name me three defenseman in each team that would make Team Canada. For some country, there is one or two, but for the majority there is none.

On the ice it looks ugly, but this team is potentially the best in the tournament, if they can get this going.

 

[Everest]

This canadian team is not strong AT ALL. It's got major flaws and we all know why.

But if some organisation takes pleasure into trying to influence the IHF, you bet that our guys over there, even if they don't represent our best unit, are going to regroup.

The beast is asleep. This team does not have any intensity going. Why wake it up? That, my friend, you'll have to explain to me.

Exactly...I think Nash should have been suspended...but with no penalty on the play originally...Whats the point of complaining by Swden?? They have drawn attention to 2 things...the incident being one...and there own need for a sound thrashing for being a squirelly little tattle tale being the other.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I guess you euros don't understand how Canada works as a hockey nation. Remember 72. Us against the Soviet system. Win at all cost, even if it meant beating Kharlamov to submission (Clarke and the tomahawk chop). 2002. Us against the World, dixit Gretzky.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that the next time the 2 teams will meet, some Swedish heads are going to fly because of the manager's doings. I'm sure Alfie's not very pleased with what his organisation has done.

It's a no-no to send a tv shot (no even a penalty called) and ask for a suspension. At least, on this side of the ocean. It's part of the unwritten code.

I dont remember (wasnt born yet) 72, and dont care what happended 33 years ago...
Ohh.. the unwritten code you really got us there..

 

[deandebean]

No it isn't. Bowman did it ALL the time.

Bowman does it because he's Bowman. And was coaching THE best team. We're talking about the Swedes here, man. Not the Red Wings.

Besides, Bowman did it when it affected his own players (ex.: Claude Lemieux's hit). Not when someone roughed up a ref, didn't get any call, and no one noticed it before a freaking tv crew did a day after.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Name me three defenseman in each team that would make Team Canada. For some country, there is one or two, but for the majority there is none.

On the ice it looks ugly, but this team is potentially the best in the tournament, if they can get this going.

Jere Karalahti, Kimmo Timonen and Ossi Väänänen.

 

[deandebean]

Name me three defenseman in each team that would make Team Canada. For some country, there is one or two, but for the majority there is none.

On the ice it looks ugly, but this team is potentially the best in the tournament, if they can get this going.

Yes, but this team still sucks, canadian standard-wise. Whatever which way you look at it.

 

[deandebean]

I dont remember (wasnt born yet) 72, and dont care what happended 33 years ago...
Ohh.. the unwritten code you really got us there..

You'll see... Coming from Sweden of all countries. Jeez...

At least win something and then complain.

 

[Westlander]

As in most other sports the rules are made in a democratic way with all participating countries by the International Federation, where Canada of course is a member and have voting rights. So the rules are not European, they're the International hockey rules.

Officially yes. In reality, International Rules are heavily European. Of all the countries who get an IIHF vote, the only ones who will vote for NHL style rules will likely be Canada and the US. The Europeans will naturally vote for rules based on how the game is played here in Europe, thus effectively voting as a block, even if it's not intentional. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, I don't blame them. What I am saying is that in the World Championships, European clubs have just as much an advantage with regards to rules, as would Canada and the US in the World Cup.

And as to hockey being "your" game. Canada is the home of hockey, but it's everybodys game.

Fair enough then.

 

[deandebean]

Jere Karalahti, Kimmo Timonen and Ossi Väänänen.

You're right.

This canadian squad, with Phillips and Souray, is our C team.

Same goes for the forwards.

I repeat, this squad would get ass-kicked by the 2002 SLC and 2004 WC team. I've seen better pickups after playoff elimination than this one.