Narratives about roster building that the finalists reinforce/undermine

[T REX]

Bouchard has easily been the best defenseman of the entire playoffs thus far. Without Ekholm, mind.

And yeah, a decade ago, defensemen who could be ppg+ in three straight playoffs were truly a dime a dozen, right?

What's the breakdown on points to or from McDrai...just curious...nice to have those two on the receiving end of a stretch pass or any pass for that matter.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Bouchard has easily been the best defenseman of the entire playoffs thus far. Without Ekholm, mind.

And yeah, a decade ago, defensemen who could be ppg+ in three straight playoffs were truly a dime a dozen, right?

I didn't say that. I just don't think he'd be remembered in the same way as the players I mentioned. That next tier has some really good players: Gonchar, Letang, Carlson and you can argue Pietrangelo.

 

[wintersej]

Neither of these teams are built from net out with top D. Both are built around having two above average first lines that stay above average first lines come the playoffs.

 

[BlueDream]

Same things as always:

1. Strong down the middle of the ice at the Center position

2. High-end skill

3. Big, mobile defensemen

4. Grit and physicality

You need those main things, and both teams have them.

 

[Goptor]

Higher $ over the cap equates to higher chances of winning the stanley cup

 

[North Cole]

Size, skill, and cap are obviously important but it can't be understated how important mentality is. That's true of everything in life.

You can't really emulate a Stanley cup winner until you emulate a loser. Very few teams just roll into the playoffs and go all the way the first time they show up. Yes, you will need specific make up of players to get through the regular season gauntlet and be healthy/skilled enough to have a shot in the playoffs, but you also need specific personalities that are going to embrace getting their ass kicked multiple times and not be complacent or give up.

Many cup winners have a track record of losing in the 2nd or 3rd round before finally punching their ticket. I'd argue that there are a lot of players that are just happy to be there, losing sucks for them, but it doesn't seem to keep them up at night in the summer. It doesn't seem to increase their urgency during training, the season, or the next playoffs.

Resiliency and desire are skills of their own and you don't really know if you have them until your on the anvil.

 

[snipes]

Depth and commitment to excellent defensive hockey wins championships is reaffirmed again.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

You fact that you can never have too many good puck moving dmen has been reinforced.

Both teams were really good in this regard last season & both have improved for this year's playoffs so it will be extremely interesting to see the outcome of these improvements.

 

[Bank Shot]

According to hfboards, old teams are bad, but we are seeing a battle of the oldest team vs the 8th oldest.

Also, there is a positive correlation between being old and winning for NHL rosters.

Don't tell anyone.

 

[jeblers]

Basically this was something that happened slowly, overtime, teams getting older and mature. Getting the right people in the right spots at the right time. They seem less emotional, more methodical. Sacrificing the individual stats for the team.

Both of these teams were considered playoff losers not to long ago, they just didn't have the understanding of what it takes to win the cup. Florida and Edmonton both lost the qualifying round in the COVID year. Florida was swept by TBL next year, accused of staying at the strip club all night before one of the games.

Oilers lost to a bad Blackhawks team in the qualifying round in the COVID year. Next year was swept by Winnipeg. They had a wild series against the flames the next year, lost game 1 nine to five, only to win the next 4, riding some incredible high just to be swept by the Avalanche the next round.

 

[majormajor]

Neither of these teams has a D that will seriously compete for the Norris. Forsling and Ekholm don't produce enough. Bouchard's defensive reputation will be hard to shake.

That was a big thing a decade ago, at the end of the Pronger/Niedermayer, Lidstrom, Chara, Keith and Doughty run (Pittsburgh 09 being a bit of an outlier).

Bouchard's level of play this playoffs has been Norris level and then some.

His reputation at this point is playing like a Norris level D when it matters, it's been multiple playoffs in a row where he's stepped it up at both ends.

 

[majormajor]

According to hfboards, old teams are bad, but we are seeing a battle of the oldest team vs the 8th oldest.

Also, there is a positive correlation between being old and winning for NHL rosters.

Don't tell anyone.

This will be news for HF but I think NHL clubs have already figured out that getting the best veterans (and more than a few of them) is one of the keys to success in the playoffs. For HF you still have people thinking that a team with 2 30+ players is too many.

There was a moment post-lockout where many of the best players in the league were in that 19-23 age range. Not anymore, almost none of those guys get anywhere in the playoffs and there's only a few of them among the league's top 30 or so scorers. It's unheard of on HF though where people still expect 19-23 year olds to be difference makers. The league is also getting taller and it's as hard as ever for small players to succeed.

 

[majormajor]

Most of it is obvious. Build around elite talent that you drafted high.

I don't think that's the real lesson from the Panthers, given that Barkov is their only elite talent that they've drafted.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Reinforced: defense wins championships. Two very good defensive groups.

 

[bert]

It’s a copycat league. GMs will go on and on about analytics over large sample sizes, then throw their whole strategy overboard because one team won a Cup while looking a certain way.

Being heavy/high compete and skilled works every time. Maybe doesnt win you a cup but show me a cup winner that doesnt have both those elements. Some have more than the other but thats always the recipe.

Most of it is obvious. Build around elite talent that you drafted high. Go for some cheap quality depth. I do think that both teams show that toughness still matters for the playoffs.

It never wont. Its a different type of toughness now but its still gotta be prevalent through your line up if you win the cup.

 

[DaveG]

Was either Dallas or Carolina over the cap?

Carolina was not (apparently were working on a Boeser deal that they ran out of time to complete after the Rantanen trade).

 

[centipede2233]

Auston Matthew’s isn’t gonna take much more of this

 

[lawrence]

"drafting is very important"

Panthers only have 4 drafted players on their current roster.

 

[MessierII]

I don't think that's the real lesson from the Panthers, given that Barkov is their only elite talent that they've drafted.

They parleyed a high pick in Huberdeau into another star in Tkachuk. Ekbkad is still a very big part of the team too so I would disagree.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I don’t think there is a single blueprint that will ensure you’re a contender. Each championship team is different in their own unique way. Every team must build their own team as best as they can according to what they have and play the game accordingly

 

[ijuka]

"drafting is very important"

Panthers only have 4 drafted players on their current roster.

including their #1 C and #1 D

They also got Tkachuk by trading Huberdeau and Weegar, both of whom they drafted.

 

[lawrence]

my point stands. Currently they have 4 picks playing for them, and a long the way, and players they use to have they traded away. So trading is also a recipe for success.

 

[RevengeOfTheDrai]

Big one for me, and it might be unpopular so don’t flame me, but teams with finals aspirations could really use

A McDavid.

 

[majormajor]

including their #1 C and #1 D

They also got Tkachuk by trading Huberdeau and Weegar, both of whom they drafted.

Calling Ekblad their #1D is usually not accurate, Forsling usually carries that designation. The guy they got on waivers.

And certainly drafting well can give you the capital to trade for better fitting players. But the Panthers were not one of the best drafting teams or some juggernaut when Zito arrived that only needed small fixes. Relative to how other clubs are built, the Panthers are the least-reliant on the draft.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Florida is deep down the middle with a 1C and 2 2C’s on the 2nd and 3rd line. They have a superstar winger. They are deep at both forward and defense. They have a good goalie

Edmonton has 2 of the best players in the game that center the top 2 lines, one of them will be out there ~70% of the game and they combine on a lethal powerplay. They have one of the top offensive defensemen in the game. They have good veteran depth for cheap and everyone has bought into the system