My 2 cents on the Russians' taunting.

[TK79]

No, it wasn't intentional, and even if it was, Russia still got the 4 min power play. If the US got a pp for when the russian player cover the puck up in the crease or for knocking his own net off or diving then I probably wouldn't care. I hope #20 has to eat through a straw the next 2 months.

That last line is real classy

 

[Street Hawk]

En?

I saw the hi-lites and checked the game stats and from what I saw, Ovechkin's goal made it 5-2, which sealed the deal and ensured Russia would face Canada for Gold, so his celebration of jumping into the bench is ok IMO.

Now, with the game 5-2 with 2:14 left, is there really a point in pullling Montoya again? But, given that this is the game to get into the Gold Medal game, I can understand that Sandelin didn't want to give up hope with 2:10 left, but still, 3 goals in 2 minutes?

As for Malkin's taunting, didn't like it. Again, seeing the hi-lites and game stats, I saw that Ryan Suter was assessed a slashing penalty at the time of the goal. He did take a pretty good two hander to Malkin's ankle. While, I hate to see taunting for any reason, I can understand Malkin wanting to vent after taking that whack from Suter. But, the best way to vent is to celebrate with your teammates and let the other team see that you're moving on and they aren't.

 

[The Slap Shop]

One thing I disagree with is comments like this: "If these [Russian] players ever want to make it to the NHL, they'll have to get some class." This **** is being said about the Russians on every WJ tournament - and yet there hardly is any problem when some of the more talented ones integrate into the NHL. Right now they might look distant and alien to the Canadian and American nat. teams, North American fans, broadcasters, and reporters - since they play on the other side of the world, but when they arrive here, they assimilate without a problem. A few years back Kovalchuk was looked at as a cocky, arrogant Russki from another planet (yes, that "oh, those Russians" austere mysteriousness) - but he seemed to have no problem once he got into the league and brought some of his likeable energy. (It took him a couple of diving penalties in the first few games to get that point, as well..) So don't sweat it, they are just kids playing hockey..

The reason that is though because most of these kids will never play in a tournament like this again. After this tourney most players will soon join NHL Teams after the lockout and then grow older and learn not to pull any of that crap. If any player Russian American or Canadian does this in any NHL Game they know that the next shift they take they will have an opposing player following the whole next shift. The point is you don't do. The easiest way to get players pissed off is to taunt you and then taunt your fans. Because then those players have to stick up for the fans the ones that aren't out. And thats how you get the drunken fans throwing items at players. Shirokov was like this in Game 1 of the Tourney and this past game. It's disrespectful but that is also what is going to get your ass kicked.

 

[Haute Couture]

The reason that is though because most of these kids will never play in a tournament like this again. After this tourney most players will soon join NHL Teams after the lockout and then grow older and learn not to pull any of that crap. If any player Russian American or Canadian does this in any NHL Game they know that the next shift they take they will have an opposing player following the whole next shift. The point is you don't do. The easiest way to get players pissed off is to taunt you and then taunt your fans. Because then those players have to stick up for the fans the ones that aren't out. And thats how you get the drunken fans throwing items at players. Shirokov was like this in Game 1 of the Tourney and this past game. It's disrespectful but that is also what is going to get your ass kicked.

Don't exaggerate all this "policeman following you on the next shift" stuff. Yes, certain players get retribution from other certain players not "accidentally" - but that's as much likely to happen for being too rough and borderline-dirty out there on the ice rather than showboating. Besides, superstars usually got their backs covered within their teams. Guys like Jagr and Kovalchuk (and many others, even the aborigines) can taunt and salute all they want - nobody's going to touch them. Why? Because occasional taunting's fine. It might be "disrespectful" - but a lot of things out there on the hockey rink are disrespectful. If it's in the general realms of decency and not in the excess, nobody usually has any problem with it.

 

[Traitor8]

I think of it the other way around. People would still be whining if Russia did it to the Swiss. However, if USA did that to Russia(assuming USA won), I know for a fact we'd see, "Hahhaah did j00 see Kessel do that cool dance move after scoring that goal?! Man he's so sweet! Kessel > Crosby" ...Followed by alot of and

Its funny because it's prolly true!

:lol

 

[NYR2]

I hear this response a lot. "I'd love to see them try that in the NHL, they'd get knocked out." I've seen Kovalchuk taunt players before, and he's still breathing.

Not that I want to defend him, but I haven't seen him do what those guys did tonight. I've seen him taunt but nothing like tonight. I have never seen a team do that.

Yes, I do know for a "fact" because there are more than enough "Kessel Homers" and "USA homers" that give me "more than enough" "evidence" to "throw out" this "prediction" upon which my "fact" was "based" on.

Oh we have a smart aleck on our hands, do we? Yeah, there a lot of Kessel fans on the board and U.S. homers, I don't know why there wouldn't be, isn't that called a fan? But like I said look around and you'll see plenty of people saying they couldn't defend what the Russians did if it was their team. I've said it already and I'll say it again, I would be mortified if that was my team. I see no need for it to go to the extent they brought it to.

Heck, it may have been Don Cherry who threw it.

I wonder what he thought of their disgraceful acts tonight. He's not too found of Europeans right?

 

[Higgins_and_Main]

Bad karma will hit the Russians when they play canada for the Gold medal. The Canadians will mop up the floor with the cocky Russians.

 

[IkeaMonkey*]

Oh we have a smart aleck on our hands, do we? Yeah, there a lot of Kessel fans on the board and U.S. homers, I don't know why there wouldn't be, isn't that called a fan? But like I said look around and you'll see plenty of people saying they couldn't defend what the Russians did if it was their team. I've said it already and I'll say it again, I would be mortified if that was my team. I see no need for it to go to the extent they brought it to.

I'd be mortified if the Russians swung their sticks Barry Bonds style or took off their skates and tried to stab the Americans a la Happy Gilmour. Chirping? Tugging your jersey? Showing someone your nameplate? Hardly mortifying. Oh and "my" team was Germany, we were done a longgggg time ago.

 

[The Slap Shop]

Don't exaggerate all this "policeman following you on the next shift" stuff. Yes, certain players get retribution from other certain players not "accidentally" - but that's as much likely to happen for being too rough and borderline-dirty out there on the ice rather than showboating. Besides, superstars usually got their backs covered within their teams. Guys like Jagr and Kovalchuk (and many others, even the aborigines) can taunt and salute all they want - nobody's going to touch them. Why? Because occasional taunting's fine. It might be "disrespectful" - but a lot of things out there on the hockey rink are disrespectful. If it's in the general realms of decency and not in the excess, nobody usually has any problem with it.

Taunting and Saluting are 2 different things. I don't think anyone on either team is offended when Jagr scores and does his Salute. I don't care if someone scores and does a little dance. When Kovalchuk scored and said something to the Oilers bench it obviously pissed the Oilers off. Now you have to remember the NHL also has this stupid rule called the Instigator which causes problems. Now if I remember right not sure if it was the same game but I do remember Kovalchuk getting into a fight with Mike Comrie. There is a line between celebrating a goal and taunting. When Shirikov scores and puts his hand to his ear. Thats taunting. If he scores put his arms up jumps into his teammates arms thats celebrating.

 

[Mxpunk]

Taunting and Saluting are 2 different things. I don't think anyone on either team is offended when Jagr scores and does his Salute. I don't care if someone scores and does a little dance. When Kovalchuk scored and said something to the Oilers bench it obviously pissed the Oilers off. Now you have to remember the NHL also has this stupid rule called the Instigator which causes problems. Now if I remember right not sure if it was the same game but I do remember Kovalchuk getting into a fight with Mike Comrie. There is a line between celebrating a goal and taunting. When Shirikov scores and puts his hand to his ear. Thats taunting. If he scores put his arms up jumps into his teammates arms thats celebrating.

Exactly. There is a difference between celebrating for a goal and taunting. Taunting is DIRECTED at the opposition and is basically a chance to rub it in. What Jagr and Kovalchuk do is not directed at the other team. Remember, when Kovalchuk fought Comrie, it was because Kovalchuk skated by the Oil's bench after scoring and pointed at his stick. That was taunting, and it pissed off a lot of Oilers. Ovechkin and Malkin taunted the US when the game was over, and there was no need to do this. Granted, I'm sure there were some words exchanged between the two teams that may have caused these taunts, but Shirokov did it in the 1st game as well. It is pretty disrespectful, and for anyone who has played hockey, you know what it's like when the opposing team taunts you after a goal or near the end of a game.

 

[Epsilon]

Personally I think Shirokov needs to change up his celebration to look more like Hulk Hogan's: spin the hand a few times, and lean in when cupping it to the ear.

 

[Haute Couture]

Taunting and Saluting are 2 different things. I don't think anyone on either team is offended when Jagr scores and does his Salute. I don't care if someone scores and does a little dance. When Kovalchuk scored and said something to the Oilers bench it obviously pissed the Oilers off. Now you have to remember the NHL also has this stupid rule called the Instigator which causes problems. Now if I remember right not sure if it was the same game but I do remember Kovalchuk getting into a fight with Mike Comrie. There is a line between celebrating a goal and taunting. When Shirikov scores and puts his hand to his ear. Thats taunting. If he scores put his arms up jumps into his teammates arms thats celebrating.

True about the instigator (haven't watched the NHL in a while, forgetting things) - but regardless of that, what harm was there for Kovalchuk to skate by the Oilers' bench and stir it up a little? While his fight with Comrie was hardly a spectacle, it still was a part of that whole energy buildup which was so drenched in the atmosphere of that arena. The same might work for Shirokov - when he did it the first time, nobody had a problem. Why? Celebrating by getting a little cocky is okay. Especially at our age.. Fans don't like it, but fans aren't on the ice. Fans like winning, but fans don't really win themselves. Fans like pretty goals, but your average fan doesn't skate alone on a goalie fullspeed and score with 17,000 people watching him or her.. All the small things on the ice, all the competitiveness, all the rivality gets magnified 100 times in the eyes of the players who are actually participating in all this impulse-driven euphoria. What they do is what most of the fans in the stands will never get..

 

[MOGiLNY]

Exactly. There is a difference between celebrating for a goal and taunting. Taunting is DIRECTED at the opposition and is basically a chance to rub it in. What Jagr and Kovalchuk do is not directed at the other team. Remember, when Kovalchuk fought Comrie, it was because Kovalchuk skated by the Oil's bench after scoring and pointed at his stick. That was taunting, and it pissed off a lot of Oilers. Ovechkin and Malkin taunted the US when the game was over, and there was no need to do this. Granted, I'm sure there were some words exchanged between the two teams that may have caused these taunts, but Shirokov did it in the 1st game as well. It is pretty disrespectful, and for anyone who has played hockey, you know what it's like when the opposing team taunts you after a goal or near the end of a game.

Well ofcourse taunting is directed at someone.. that's why it's taunting..

But would you rather the Russians celebrate their goals quietly but then cheap shot Kessel and end his career early? Sounds to me like these guys were putting up with ******** all night long, but they won the game, and they won it deservedly.. they then taunted the other team instead of attacking them with sticks..

and you know what, Ovechkin and Malkin are pretty big guys, big enough to flatten anybody on the US team.. they could've taken the dirty way out, and painted the boards with O'Sullivan's and Dowell's faces...

lastly, I've read that some people just hate it when their country is embarassed like this.. but it seems that almost everyone has forgotten that US got embarassed during the game long before all the taunting.. I think that is the real problem for the US hockey, not what kind of bad person Ovechkin is..

 

[Zen Arcade]

Personally I think Shirokov needs to change up his celebration to look more like Hulk Hogan's: spin the hand a few times, and lean in when cupping it to the ear.

If he's going to do that, he might as well go all the way, and start shaking his head frantically whenever someone tries to hit him.

 

[Haute Couture]

Exactly. There is a difference between celebrating for a goal and taunting. Taunting is DIRECTED at the opposition and is basically a chance to rub it in. What Jagr and Kovalchuk do is not directed at the other team. Remember, when Kovalchuk fought Comrie, it was because Kovalchuk skated by the Oil's bench after scoring and pointed at his stick. That was taunting, and it pissed off a lot of Oilers. Ovechkin and Malkin taunted the US when the game was over, and there was no need to do this. Granted, I'm sure there were some words exchanged between the two teams that may have caused these taunts, but Shirokov did it in the 1st game as well. It is pretty disrespectful, and for anyone who has played hockey, you know what it's like when the opposing team taunts you after a goal or near the end of a game.

Why limit it to hockey? While it's unquestionably annoying in other walks of life other than sports, in sports there always instances where you can't help it . And even if the other team gets pissed off - so what? Of course, doing it excessively, like was done today, is definitely unnecessary, but usually, from time to time, it's fine.

I think that 90% of the people who are "disgusted" with it just didn't like the outcome of the game. The ESPN commentators were particularly blunt - that's because they were rooting for the convenient USA-Canada final all the way.. Remember Kovalchuk in 2001 celebrating before finishing the game off into the empty net? Then every self-respectful Canadian fan was appalled - but why? His celebration wasn't directed at anybody, it wasn't taunting, it wasn't anything that falls under your definition. The kid was just happy to win. And Canadians weren't that happy to lose.

 

[Mxpunk]

Well ofcourse taunting is directed at someone.. that's why it's taunting..

But would you rather the Russians celebrate their goals quietly but then cheap shot Kessel and end his career early? Sounds to me like these guys were putting up with ******** all night long, but they won the game, and they won it deservedly.. they then taunted the other team instead of attacking them with sticks..

and you know what, Ovechkin and Malkin are pretty big guys, big enough to flatten anybody on the US team.. they could've taken the dirty way out, and painted the boards with O'Sullivan's and Dowell's faces...

lastly, I've read that some people just hate it when their country is embarassed like this.. but it seems that almost everyone has forgotten that US got embarassed during the game long before all the taunting.. I think that is the real problem for the US hockey, not what kind of bad person Ovechkin is..

Personally, I would have rather seen Ovechkin throw a solid hit (like in his higlight reel hit on Tootoo) or score another goal. There isnt a need to act like a showboat on the world stage, especially when the game was over.

 

[Ri hards]

No, it wasn't intentional, and even if it was, Russia still got the 4 min power play. If the US got a pp for when the russian player cover the puck up in the crease or for knocking his own net off or diving then I probably wouldn't care. I hope #20 has to eat through a straw the next 2 months.

Okay, I didn't see the game, and I didn't see any of the high-lights. But looking at this unsportsmanlike behaviour (ie covering up the puck and knocking off the net) objectively, it's really the ref that dropped the ball. Like Barnaby said, "[it] was just a hockey play that shoulda been called."

I believe the covering of the puck in the crease should be a penalty shot. I think it's supposed to be the same for an intentional dislodging of the net on a clear cut goal.

Don't get mad at the Russians...I'm not condoning what they did, nor am I condemning them, but those two issues are the result of the ref's misjudgement.

 

[MOGiLNY]

Personally, I would have rather seen Ovechkin throw a solid hit (like in his higlight reel hit on Tootoo) or score another goal. There isnt a need to act like a showboat on the world stage, especially when the game was over.

there you go:

http://images.sportsline.com/u/gettyimages/photos/51880736JV004_Rus_USA010300_lower.jpg

 

[ScottieDsntKnow]

But would you rather the Russians celebrate their goals quietly but then cheap shot Kessel and end his career early?

Would you rather me just beat the hell out of you instead of killing you?

A pretty crappy argument. It doesn't change the fact that it is WRONG.

 

[MOGiLNY]

Would you rather me just beat the hell out of you instead of killing you?

A pretty crappy argument. It doesn't change the fact that it is WRONG.

What is wrong? Responding to dirty play with taunting?

 

[Barnaby]

You guys honestly thought O'Sullivans hit was intentional. It made no sense. It was as he was bringin his stick back down. It was obviously unintentional. Callahan at the end of the game. That was intentional

 

[BCCHL inactive]

Somebody in the US-Russia thread made a great point saying that it's better to taunt like this rather than go and break someone's neck like Bertuzzi did last season.

I stopped here.

Why the hell does this have to be brought up in seemingly every topic relating anything at all to hockey?

The Russian U20 team has a reputation for poor sportsmanship. When Russia won Gold on home ice against Canada a few years back, more than one Russian player spit at Canadian players and they all decided to have their big celebration right in front of the Canadian bench. No coincidence there.

 

[The Slap Shop]

The US Announcers of course is going to be bias considering the Color man played for the US in the WJC and most likely they are paid on a game to game basis and if the USA Made the final they would have been on ESPN and probably made more money. So they just lost a paycheck as of right now I don't see ESPN2 covering Tuesdays Bronze Medal Game.

The Russians are also known for taking the net off as it was done 3 years ago as I remember Don Cherry complaining about it on Coachs. The Refs were bad. And the Russians are known for doing that. The Russian U20's do show no respect by their taunting.

O'Sullivan's play was careless no doubt about it. What was he doing with he stick like that he shoulda been controling his stick. He was not intenting to injure the Russian player. And like stated before the European game has a lot of diving so it's hard to say sometimes was is legitimate or not.

 

[Kaizer]

My 2 cents.
1st cent - Don't want to see him celebrating, don't let him score or win
2nd cent - Vae Victus!

 

[BCCHL inactive]

What is wrong? Responding to dirty play with taunting?

Yes.

Why not show some class and not knock yourself down to their level?

1st cent - Don't want to see him celebrating, don't let him score or win

It's one thing to celebrate, but it is a whole different story when you taunt your opponents. That is not celebrating, that is showing a complete lack of sportsmanship.