Proposal: Muzzin - Nylander

[Notsince67]

I decided to do it for you:


|Players to score 60+ points in their age 20 Seasons since 2005|
|Name|Year|Points|
|McDavid|2017-18|108|
|Ovechkin|2005-06|106|
|Stamkos|2010-11|91|
|Malkin|2006-07|85|
|Barzal|2017-18|85|
|Kopitar|2007-08|77|
|Bergeron|2005-06|73|
|Crosby|2007-08|72*|
|Pastrnak|2016-17|70|
|P. Kane|2008-09|70|
|Toews|2008-09|69|
|Marner|2017-18|69|
|Backstrom|2007-08|69|
|Tavares|2010-11|67|
|Aho|2017-18|65|
|Ehlers|2016-17|64|
|Matthews|2017-18|63*|
|F. Forsberg|2014-15|63|
|Monahan|2014-15|62|
|Nylander|2016-17|61|

*Missed a significant amount of games
**Barkov, Eichel, Hall and Boeser would have made the list if they played a full season.
***Laine just played his age 19 season lol
**** This list is missing other "studs" like Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Nuge, O'Reilly, etc.

Only 30 players made the list of over 60+ points in their age 21 seasons since 2005. Of those players only 14 also scored 60 points in their age 20 season (McDavid, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Malkin, Kopitar, Bergeron, Crosby, Pastrnak, Kane, Toews, Backstrom, Tavares, Forsberg, Ehlers, Nylander). McDavid, Barzal, Marner, Matthews still haven't played their age 21 season.

Talking about Nylander like his career hasn't been borderline elite so far is just ridiculous.

Please repost this every few days

 

[Brock Radunske]

Man, teams are thirsty for Nylander.
If he is traded (I don't think he will be), the receiving team is going to have to give a huge core piece, not a complimentary piece like everyone keeps proposing.

 

[Menzinger]

Nylander's first two seasons were 22 and 20 goals... 61 points total each year. Do you really think that is going to get you #1 Dman, under 24, signed to a long-term reasonable contract ? Please.

There have been two true #D’s traded in recent years and they were both traded for one another - I doubt the Leafs attempt to solve their D issues via trade.

I also don’t have any interest in trading Nylander from a Leafs POV

 

[unicornpig]

probably add pearson on la's end and a 2nd on torontos end, that would make it pretty even.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

I decided to do it for you:


|Players to score 60+ points in their age 20 Seasons since 2005|
|Name|Year|Points|
|McDavid|2017-18|108|
|Ovechkin|2005-06|106|
|Stamkos|2010-11|91|
|Malkin|2006-07|85|
|Barzal|2017-18|85|
|Kopitar|2007-08|77|
|Bergeron|2005-06|73|
|Crosby|2007-08|72*|
|Pastrnak|2016-17|70|
|P. Kane|2008-09|70|
|Toews|2008-09|69|
|Marner|2017-18|69|
|Backstrom|2007-08|69|
|Tavares|2010-11|67|
|Aho|2017-18|65|
|Ehlers|2016-17|64|
|Matthews|2017-18|63*|
|F. Forsberg|2014-15|63|
|Monahan|2014-15|62|
|Nylander|2016-17|61|

*Missed a significant amount of games
**Barkov, Eichel, Hall and Boeser would have made the list if they played a full season.
***Laine just played his age 19 season lol
**** This list is missing other "studs" like Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Nuge, O'Reilly, etc.

Only 30 players made the list of over 60+ points in their age 21 seasons since 2005. Of those players only 14 also scored 60 points in their age 20 season (McDavid, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Malkin, Kopitar, Bergeron, Crosby, Pastrnak, Kane, Toews, Backstrom, Tavares, Forsberg, Ehlers, Nylander). McDavid, Barzal, Marner, Matthews still haven't played their age 21 season.

Talking about Nylander like his career hasn't been borderline elite so far is just ridiculous.

That was Nylanders 21st age season, he turned 21 in that season

 

[shortfuze]

Ask around, I'm sure other teams would give up more.

Well that just solved it.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

ya no kidding, I think we'll trade Gardiner and our left side will still be fine with Rielly-Dermott-Borgman

if Muzzin doesn't play the right side, he's not a target for the Leafs, full stop.



well, makes Leaf fans look bad to other fans who can't do math or only know as much as hockeydb tells them, I guess.

Matthews was over pt/game this year, so if he's a 60pt player then I'm guessing you thought McDavid should only be valued as a <50pt player after his rookie season?

Marner was pt/game from the beginning of December onwards

Nylander had 60+ in his first year despite being very unlucky, at a normal OIsh% he was better than 70 in his first full year

they're all 22 or under and all top 10 draft picks who've established themselves as top line NHL'ers or better, obviously they're going to quite a bit of credit for potential in a trade

yes, that is what McDavid was and why he did not win the Calder. You do not get points you did not earn in games, it is called reality. Reality is none of the leafs "Big Three" have gotten out of the 60's in points.

 

[KGL]

That was Nylanders 21st age season, he turned 21 in that season

It's considered his 20 y/o season, he didn't turn 21 until May.

 

[Reaper45]

Well that just solved it.

I'm not going to do the work for you. I have my thoughts and you have yours. If you so badly want to prove me wrong ask around.

 

[Reaper45]

Man, teams are thirsty for Nylander.
If he is traded (I don't think he will be), the receiving team is going to have to give a huge core piece, not a complimentary piece like everyone keeps proposing.

And Muzzin is not a core piece on the Kings? Just out of curiosity who do you think you should be getting in a Nylander trade?

 

[Randy Randerson]

yes, that is what McDavid was and why he did not win the Calder. You do not get points you did not earn in games, it is called reality. Reality is none of the leafs "Big Three" have gotten out of the 60's in points.

so you're saying that Connor McDavid and Brandon Dubinsky had the same trade value after the 2015/2016 season?

I'm not going to do the work for you. I have my thoughts and you have yours. If you so badly want to prove me wrong ask around.

you're wrong...prove me wrong

see what I did there?

 

[hockeyguy1967]

so you're saying that Connor McDavid and Brandon Dubinsky had the same trade value after the 2015/2016 season?

never said that my dude.

 

[Brock Radunske]

probably add pearson on la's end and a 2nd on torontos end, that would make it pretty even.

Even or not, the main piece isn't a big enough piece to justify the trade.
The defenseman coming back has to be a properly aged top-pairing RHD or a LHD who is considerably better than Rielly.
Toronto probably has to add but it makes no sense to accept lesser pieces.

 

[Randy Randerson]

never said that my dude.

please clarify your position then. It appears that you're saying that Matthews/Marner/Nylander are going to be valued as 60pt players, and given no value for potential on the trade market

 

[hockeyguy1967]

so you're saying that Connor McDavid and Brandon Dubinsky had the same trade value after the 2015/2016 season?



you're wrong...prove me wrong

see what I did there?

It's considered his 20 y/o season, he didn't turn 21 until May.

Then fix 80% of those listed as most did not turn 20 until later in the Season like McDavid

 

[Brock Radunske]

And Muzzin is not a core piece on the Kings? Just out of curiosity who do you think you should be getting in a Nylander trade?

Even or not, the main piece isn't a big enough piece to justify the trade.
The defenseman coming back has to be a properly aged top-pairing RHD or a LHD who is considerably better than Rielly.
Toronto probably has to add but it makes no sense to accept lesser pieces.

 

[Liferleafer]

And Muzzin is not a core piece on the Kings? Just out of curiosity who do you think you should be getting in a Nylander trade?

If the Leafs are trading Nylander, they will add and swing for the fences. No sense looking at a 1 for 1 deal as the Leafs would lose that trade.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

please clarify your position then. It appears that you're saying that Matthews/Marner/Nylander are going to be valued as 60pt players, and given no value for potential on the trade market

It is not hard to understand. All three of them have not gotten out of the 60's in points, therefore they are 60 point players. They have all had two years to try and have not. Not sure why comparing them to McDavid makes sense and he is worth all three.

 

[Spirit of 67]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[KGL]

Then fix 80% of those listed as most did not turn 20 until later in the Season like McDavid

McDavid's birthday is in January...? If you have an issue with how the seasons are sorted by age, take it up with the website it comes from. Maybe you just don't understand how it's calculated.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

McDavid's birthday is in January...? If you have an issue with how the seasons are sorted by age, take it up with the website it comes from. Maybe you just don't understand how it's calculated.

I understand how it is. Nylander was playing hockey in his first year while being 21. End of story.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

please clarify your position then. It appears that you're saying that Matthews/Marner/Nylander are going to be valued as 60pt players, and given no value for potential on the trade market

Should Matthews and Nylander value be massively decreased due to the playoffs they just had?

 

[shortfuze]

I'm not going to do the work for you. I have my thoughts and you have yours. If you so badly want to prove me wrong ask around.

I’m not trying to prove anything. You said other teams could beat that package. Sounds like your just talking out of your ass.

 

[Randy Randerson]

It is not hard to understand. All three of them have not gotten out of the 60's in points, therefore they are 60 point players. They have all had two years to try and have not. Not sure why comparing them to McDavid makes sense and he is worth all three.

ah, so you are saying precisely that players are only as valuable as the high water marks of their careers, and by extension that McDavid and Dubinsky were worth the same after the 2015/2016 seasons (and Dubinsky being worth a bit more for having been up to 54pts once)

you're also wrong on your point totals, both Matthews and Marner have had 69pt seasons

and since potential isn't worth anything, I'll trade you Zach Hyman for Jesse Puljujarvi, but you have to add because Hyman doubled Poolparty in points this year

Should Matthews and Nylander value be massively decreased due to the playoffs they just had?

not by anyone objective - sample size, my dude

 

[unicornpig]

kadri muzzin would also be closer to value, not sure if the kings are high on kadri though.