Proposal: MTL-SJ

[Garbageyuk]

If they are as good and are two players instead of just one like the Romanov deal then why aren't you asking fans of teams in the top 10 instead of Sharks fans?

Because it’s a different draft with different players available and the Sharks and Habs’ situations are different? That should’ve been obvious.

 

[Xirik]

The idea that these guys would hit the waiver wire is just as bad as the OP. Both these guys have upside... how many RD with Barron's size&talent have gone on waivers on their first year of eligibility? Teams will bend over backwards to get talented RD and give them every possible chance to make it.

They would probably get traded before being waived as every GM wants to get something back instead of nothing. In that position though you aren't going to get something amazing in a trade.

 

[WSS11]

They are unequivocally as good as he was at the time, yes. Debatable whether they are at present. Romanov plays a couple more minutes per game, but doesn’t produce any more than either, despite being older and apparently more experienced, and his metrics are terrible.

Also, Grier traded the 11th overall for two 2nds not long ago. It isn’t crazy to think he could trade the 14th here.

Wrong. Grier traded the 11th pick for a 1st (27th pick) and 2 2nds (34th and 45th picks).

The difference here is that the sharks actually have to early 2nds this year and can afford to do the inverse and trade up.

 

[BLNY]

In most drafts, sure. But I’ve read that the Canadiens are considering Beckett Sennecke at 5th, who is like 14th overall on Bob’s list. The tier drop between the forwards available at 5 is not all that different than the forwards available at 14. According to the scouts polls by McKenzie, the guys 2-15 don’t really have a consensus order, and the tier drops dramatically after 15:

I don't see them going that far if they keep the pick at 5. At 5, my expectation would be one of Lindstrom, Demidov, Catton, or Iginla. Iginla has been climbing the rankings all year. Montreal aren't drafting defence, and those are the guys that routinely come up in the area of picks 4-8 if you're taking a forward.

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Using the 24th pick to trade up to mid first round does make sense, if there's a player hanging around that HuGo really interested in. If they do, I'd certainly be in favor of drafting Eiserman. Warts or not, he's still the best pure goalscorer in the draft. I also think MSL could perform the same sort of work done with Caufield. Montreal needs natural finishers. He definitely fits the bill.

If I'm SJ, I'd keep the pick honestly. Build up the prospect pool. Adding a guy like Eiserman - if he's still there of course - would be a nice feather in the cap and go nicely with Celebrini.

 

[Xirik]

Because it’s a different draft with different players available and the Sharks situation is different? That should’ve been obvious.

Has nothing to do with the Sharks, its about value and getting the most for it.



So this years draft is so much better that

2 Romanovs + Jets 1st = 14th

compared to 2022 where

1 Romanov = 13th


Man 2022 must have been a terrible draft.

 

[JRichard]

If they are as good and are two players instead of just one like the Romanov deal then why aren't you asking fans of teams in the top 10 instead of Sharks fans?

Two defenseman that are as good as Romanov at the time should get you way more.

Philly fan from Mtl outside of top 10 at 12 wants nothing of Harris-Barron-Struble to trade down.

Mtl must have no bottom 6 at all since their goalies are leaders in expected goals saved, they have 11 NHL dmen present-prospects most of them of the untradable variety, rich top 5 of Caufield, Suzuki, Dach, Slafkovsky, Dach, Newhook.

But they pick 5th again. Not 10th or 15th, 5th.

Maybe the lineup with Montambeault-Primeau, Guhle-Matheson-Savard-Harris-Struble-Arber as base is a problem.

Instead of trading up, I say get a goalie and get 3 new dmen.

Cant all be rookies unless looking for 1 more 5th oa pick.

 

[Grinner]

They are unequivocally as good as he was at the time, yes. Debatable whether they are at present. Romanov plays a couple more minutes per game, but doesn’t produce any more than either, despite being older and apparently more experienced, and his metrics are terrible.

Also, Grier traded the 11th overall for two 2nds not long ago. It isn’t crazy to think he could trade the 14th here.

That was a different draft with different needs

 

[Garbageyuk]

Wrong. Grier traded the 11th pick for a 1st (27th pick) and 2 2nds (34th and 45th picks).

The difference here is that the sharks actually have to early 2nds this year and can afford to do the inverse and trade up.

Uh yeah, the other pick was already mentioned and I inadvertently neglected to type it.

 

[hohosaregood]

I don't really understand why MTL fans are so obsessed with offloading their bottom pairing guys to the Sharks in exchange for our 1sts. This is like the 4th version of this premise in the last month

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I don't really understand why MTL fans are so obsessed with offloading their bottom pairing guys to the Sharks in exchange for our 1sts. This is like the 4th version of this premise in the last month

If we can offload our bottom pairing guys for your 1sts, that is top level GMing!!

 

[Garbageyuk]

Has nothing to do with the Sharks, its about value and getting the most for it.



So this years draft is so much better that

2 Romanovs + Jets 1st = 14th

compared to 2022 where

1 Romanov = 13th


Man 2022 must have been a terrible draft.

At the end of the day, all that matters is how the GMs see the value. NYI obviously thought that Romanov was worth the 13th overall pick. Just like Grier thought he was getting the better end of the deal trading 11th overall for 27th and two 2nds. You don’t know how the GMs would see the value of this deal, and nothing you or I say has any bearing on reality, so trying to qualify this value or that value against whatever is pointless. If you’d like to do that, go ahead, I’ll pass and just say that the OP isn’t at all unreasonable or unrealistic, despite what some angry fans say.

 

[JRichard]

I don't really understand why MTL fans are so obsessed with offloading their bottom pairing guys to the Sharks in exchange for our 1sts. This is like the 4th version of this premise in the last month

I wouldnt say obsessed.
At the deadlines they want 1sts.
At the drafts they want to trade up with the extra first. Nothing new there.

 

[bud12]

Don’t worry, a math mistake like that is less embarrassing than claiming that 6’3” Mailloux is bigger than 6’4” Mukhamadullin.

Mmmmh, Mailloux is bigger. Claiming is not is embarrassing. You just proved he is not taller. At least where I'm from that's how it's works.

 

[TBF1972]

You repeating that incessantly isn’t going to make it true. They will be traded before it comes to that because, get this, they are valuable assets.

fine with me. but no one will pay close to the value you attribute to them.

 

[JRichard]

recent article: Since the Islanders possess the 18th overall selection in this year’s draft, look for them to shop the pick for a comparable move to the Romanov trade.
Hum…

Isles got Romanov top 4 signed at 2.5 and 98th pick
Chicago got Nazar and 66th Hayes who is coming along fine.
Mtl got Dach but lost 2 picks 66th and 98th.

Hope i have the 3-way deal right. Debrincat was also dealt same time…

 

[Garbageyuk]

fine with me. but no one will pay close to the value you attribute to them.

What NHL team do you work for? You claim to know with certainty what NHL GMs are going to do. There are two recent examples of deals similar to the one I proposed, but you claim to know for sure that no one will pay anything close to “the value I attribute to them”. Please let us know what executive we have the privilege of speaking with here.

 

[pth2]

.....

Using the 24th pick to trade up to mid first round does make sense, if there's a player hanging around that HuGo really interested in....

Pretty quickly it comes down to whether there's a team that has a guy in their top-15 still on the board, and the team with a pick didn't see that guy as being that attractive, in which case a trade-down is always possible. But it becomes far more of a trade floor type deal based on specific draft lists and how the draft has gone forward.

I wouldn't be surprised at seeing a team around 14-16 trade down - say Chicago gets one of those for #20 and #34, for example.

 

[Xirik]

If we can offload our bottom pairing guys for your 1sts, that is top level GMing!!

Is it just that Hughes hasn't done a wrong move yet and that's why some Habs proposals would make the other teams GM's look stupid? Cause yes offloading bottom pairing guys for 1st is top level gming but makes the other GM look like he needs to get fired.

I personally think he's in the top 10 of current GM's as he gotten "wins" early on in his career but it feels to me like some think he's always going to make out like a bandit every time.

At the end of the day, all that matters is how the GMs see the value. NYI obviously thought that Romanov was worth the 13th overall pick. Just like Grier thought he was getting the better end of the deal trading 11th overall for 27th and two 2nds. You don’t know how the GMs would see the value of this deal, and nothing you or I say has any bearing on reality, so trying to qualify this value or that value against whatever is pointless. If you’d like to do that, go ahead, I’ll pass and just say that the OP isn’t at all unreasonable or unrealistic, despite what some angry fans say.

Thanks for the Forum 101, Everything in this forum is pointless including this thread as It has no bearing on reality. You are the OP so talking like it's someone other then you is a little strange.

 

[JRichard]

Pretty quickly it comes down to whether there's a team that has a guy in their top-15 still on the board, and the team with a pick didn't see that guy as being that attractive, in which case a trade-down is always possible. But it becomes far more of a trade floor type deal based on specific draft lists and how the draft has gone forward.

I wouldn't be surprised at seeing a team around 14-16 trade down - say Chicago gets one of those for #20 and #34, for example.

I’d say a little further down, around 18th. There will be 1-2 reaches in top 15 so 1-2 « standard » top 15 will be there at 16 and 17.

If you are asking a team to pass on last « standard » top 15, you need to offer something nice, not something you dont need anymore.

And whats the point of reaching for 18th when its land of confusion between 18 and 32 pretty much.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Is it just that Hughes hasn't done a wrong move yet and that's why some Habs proposals would make the other teams GM's look stupid? Cause yes offloading bottom pairing guys for 1st is top level gming but makes the other GM look like he needs to get fired.

I personally think he's in the top 10 of current GM's as he gotten "wins" early on in his career but it feels to me like some think he's always going to make out like a bandit every time.

Thanks for the Forum 101, Everything in this forum is pointless including this thread as It has no bearing on reality. You are the OP so talking like it's someone other then you is a little strange.

You misunderstood (again). The discussion as to the value the way you see it is fine, but that’s not what you were doing. You were trying to railroad the conversation off on some tangent about qualifying this value against that value in regards to what GMs have done in the past. There isn’t an answer there because we don’t know what they think until after they make moves. Did that clear things up for you?

 

[TBF1972]

What NHL team do you work for? You claim to know with certainty what NHL GMs are going to do. There are two recent examples of deals similar to the one I proposed, but you claim to know for sure that no one will pay anything close to “the value I attribute to them”. Please let us know what executive we have the privilege of speaking with here.

says the one who is sure harris will be a top 4d for an other team than montreal. i am impressed mr. hughes.

 

[Garbageyuk]

says the one who is sure harris will be a top 4d for an other team than montreal. i am impressed mr. hughes.

Stating an opinion about a player’s potential is the same thing as claiming to know with certainty what NHL GMs are going to do? Thats your argument?

 

[JRichard]

Is it just that Hughes hasn't done a wrong move yet and that's why some Habs proposals would make the other teams GM's look stupid? Cause yes offloading bottom pairing guys for 1st is top level gming but makes the other GM look like he needs to get fired.

I personally think he's in the top 10 of current GM's as he gotten "wins" early on in his career but it feels to me like some think he's always going to make out like a bandit every time.

Thanks for the Forum 101, Everything in this forum is pointless including this thread as It has no bearing on reality. You are the OP so talking like it's someone other then you is a little strange.

Careful with the « perfect » record for Hughes… lots of it is futures.

Whats the return for Toffoli? Chiarot? Edmundson?
Lehkonen? Petry. Newhook trade vs Gulyayev and Ethan Gauthier might end up a loss.

Even the last Monahan move seems nice for futures but maybe total bust.

 

[TBF1972]

Stating an opinion about a player’s potential is the same thing as claiming to know with certainty what NHL GMs are going to do? Thats your argument?

You can not like the trade, that’s fair, but they have both proven they are already bottom pairing NHL D, especially Harris. And they are both young with top-4 upside. I’ve little doubt that Harris will be a solid top-4 D somewhere. It just won’t be in MTL.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Where did I say it was an absolute certainty like you did? I think the language I used is fine, given the context. It certainly isn’t as hardline as your’s was that’s for sure.

Are you really going to tell me that you think Harris and Barron will play in MTL long term over Matheson, Savard, Hutson, Reinbacher, Guhle, Mailloux, Xhekaj, Struble, etc.

Seems unlikely, but go ahead. The difference here is you’re speaking in absolutes and like you have some kind of make believe authority, while I’m simply stating my opinions. But go ahead and pretend not to get that.