Proposal: MTL & NYI

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Mods. Please change colour scheme.

 

[impaaaaaact]

can I ask, what's up with all the Habs fans making dump offers for Isles players lately?

we're literally one point behind you in a season where our defense was completely decimated by injury, our goalie was coming off late offseason back surgery, we traded away our top goal scorer and our best player missed more than half the year.

just wait for Demidov and Hage. If you don't make the playoffs this year you should next year.

 

[Legend123]

without getting into context, he was PPG literally last season lol

he got injured blocking a shot off his knee

we don't need to do this

Yup my bad

Points still stands 9M+ for the next 6 years for
- an often injured player (he hasn't played a full season since his second year)
- not a ppg player. He's had just one ppg since his rookie season. For 9m I'd expect more production. Anywhere between 85 to 95 for 9M.
- a player likely to cost a lot in assets to acquire

Overall it's just not worth even entertaining talks for him

 

[impaaaaaact]

Yup my bad

Points still stands 9M+ for the next 6 years for
- an often injured player (he hasn't played a full season since his second year)
- not a ppg player. He's had just one ppg since his rookie season. For 9m I'd expect more production. Anywhere between 85 to 95 for 9M.
- a player likely to cost a lot in assets to acquire

Overall it's just not worth even entertaining talks for him

I swear to god people on this board have amnesia. Has everyone forgotten the two shortened seasons? He's not injury prone, like at all.

Measuring Barzal's impact by his PPG is also missing the point (and the context) of his game. We don't need to get into the whole back and forth but the stuff to know is that for those non PPG seasons is that he was playing in a Barry Trotz system and his linemates were like Leo Komarov and Oliver Wahlstrom. He still lead the team in PPG over that time, as well as the entirety of his Islanders tenure.

and yeah, I agree that it makes no sense for MTL to be trading for a star. let the rebuild happen, it's almost there

 

[miscs75]

I swear to god people on this board have amnesia. Has everyone forgotten the two shortened seasons? He's not injury prone, like at all.

Measuring Barzal's impact by his PPG is also missing the point (and the context) of his game. We don't need to get into the whole back and forth but the important context you should have is that for those non PPG seasons is that he was playing in a Barry Trotz system and his line mates were like Leo Komarov and Oliver Wahlstrom. He lead the team in PPG over that time, as well as the entirety of his Islanders tenure.

and yeah, I agree that it makes no sense for MTL to be trading for a star. let the rebuild happen, it's almost there

These are the same fans who claimed Dobson was injury prone in previous trade threads. Not worth the effort.

 

[CanadienShark]

This is going to be locked out pretty soon since the mods hates me.

It's not you we hate. It's the proposals.

*Disclaimer* Not a Mod

 

[MoneyManny]

This is a forum where we play pretend. I'm not sure why y'all are getting upset over this. Keep it together lol.

 

[Ezpz]

No, just no.



*stop offering the Islanders overhyped middle of the roster filler pieces for core playes to upgrade your roster. It’s just not going to work for Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Sorokin or anyone else outside of guys like Mayfield, Engvall or Duclair.

You guys traded significantly less for Horvat when he was younger and on pace for 50+ goals. Raty was a lesser prospect than Beck, more comparable to Kapanen, who is likely still a better prospect. Beauvillier was literally a cap dump. The first was lower than either pick the Habs currently hold.

So he's offering a package that is everything you paid for Horvat, in better assets, plus an additional first.

This isn't a video game, in real life assets aren't worth this much for clubs who are being forced to enter rebuilds. Erik Karlsson, the best dman in the league at the time, fetched less than this.

The question always gets turned around, would you trade Nick Suzuki for that? No, because he would be the best player on the Islanders, and the Habs are entering their prime instead of leaving it.

Many thought we could have got more for Pacioretty than we did and were bummed with the return, but Nick Suzuki+ ended up being amazing.

I wouldn't pay this much for Barzal or Horvat knowing how good Heinemen has been as a rookie, the upside of Beck, and the pretty high likelihood to get a decent player with two firsts.

Not because they're not good players, but because Barzal has had injuries in many of his seasons and Horvat is paid too much to take on that contract without sending any money back.

 

[mm11]

...Barzal is terrible defensively at C...that also had quite a bit to do with him playing primarily RW now...

He is def not terrible defensively. He is a plus 10 in 530 career games. Already has two 80 point seasons plus NHL hardware and many many many big playoff wins and won rounds under his belt already. Played under low octane Barry Trotz for years or he's flirting well over a point a game seasons. Would be nice to have some legit finishers to play with. Look for some big seasons from Barzal at Center soon enough. Last I looked Suzuki was sporting a minus 60 career and never posting 80 points yet. Interesting. Barzal is very underrated at this point . Time will tell I guess

 

[mm11]

Oops ur right my bad. Still I don't like the contract enough to pay up the assets needed to land him. He's only played one full season since his second year

look closer, years 2019 to 2021 were shortened covid seasons brother and Barzal would have been flirting with 80 points on a low octane NYI Barry Trotz team

 

[miscs75]

You guys traded significantly less for Horvat when he was younger and on pace for 50+ goals. Raty was a lesser prospect than Beck, more comparable to Kapanen, who is likely still a better prospect. Beauvillier was literally a cap dump. The first was lower than either pick the Habs currently hold.

So he's offering a package that is everything you paid for Horvat, in better assets, plus an additional first.

This isn't a video game, in real life assets aren't worth this much for clubs who are being forced to enter rebuilds. Erik Karlsson, the best dman in the league at the time, fetched less than this.

The question always gets turned around, would you trade Nick Suzuki for that? No, because he would be the best player on the Islanders, and the Habs are entering their prime instead of leaving it.

Many thought we could have got more for Pacioretty than we did and were bummed with the return, but Nick Suzuki+ ended up being amazing.

I wouldn't pay this much for Barzal or Horvat knowing how good Heinemen has been as a rookie, the upside of Beck, and the pretty high likelihood to get a decent player with two firsts.

Not because they're not good players, but because Barzal has had injuries in many of his seasons and Horvat is paid too much to take on that contract without sending any money back.

In a vacuum you can look at the trades and say the pieces were less but fit is the issue. The issue comes down to need. The Isles would be losing SUBSTANTIALLY more in trading for multiple mystery pieces than in keeping Barzal no matter how much you try to hype up the prospects. It’s really not a trade that works for the Islanders and the draft itself is a weaker draft that essentially falls off a cliff after the first 5-6 players. In the end the trade helps Montreal out and doesn’t really work for the Isles. The only way I can see Barzal going is for a hockey trade and Montreal doesn’t really have an interest in doing a deal like that. Essentially it would be a base of Barzal for Suzuki with other pieces added in to balance out from each side.
If you look at the Islanders roster, they’re missing 2-3 pieces of high end talent in the top 9 to be able to be a competitive threat again. Those pieces could end up being Eiserman, Nelson and Ritchie if all progress at the rate they have been. The team is currently competing with an offense of Horvat, Nelson, Holmstrom and a bunch of bottom 6 forwards while having multiple core players out due to injury throughout the season. If Montreal lost that equivalent, they’d be well below where they were in the standings.