Proposal: MTL & BOSTON

[wintersej]

Well if Newhook has no value he doesn’t need to be added then. He’s got value to Montreal.

Zacha’s value is probably a first round pick. I just don’t think he’s what we need. He’s not a 2C. He may have gotten 57 and 59 points but that’s with Pasta, Marchand and PP1 time. He ain’t getting that in Montreal.

He’d be lucky to get ~40 points in Montreal and that is not enough for what we need and for the value going the other way.

I think you are overselling the PP1 time here... it was really only in 2023-24 that he was a fixture on PP1 in his time in Boston. Nor, has he spent much of any time with Marchand.

Or course, the real argument is that he benefits from playing with Pasta, which I would be a fool to argue.

 

[Xirik]

take out the useless players and its the 16th OV pick in a draft that is suppose to be deep up to pick 10.

Perhaps if they can bundle up said pick with other assets and trade there way into the top 10 it would be worth it. Otherwise its just a trade to perhaps get a player that has an okay chance at being as good as Zacha that they'll have to wait a couple years to the get to the NHL.

Also depends on how big of a teardown the Bruins want, Zacha is around the age where he can be a transition player into a retooled bruins team, I don't think Pasta would enjoy life it was him and the "Baby Bruins" for a couple years.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Sure I guess, I'd rather shoot higher from Montreal's POV but if this was the best upgrade available I'd do it. I think Newhook involved makes sense for contract considerations. And to be fair he's in a similar boat as Zacha where he had a tough season but looked a lot better the year past, still some upside there but I don't think he's more than a solid 3LW. It's not as if Zacha has a long extensive history of good seasons either

 

[ON3M4N]

Okay so he played 3/4 of the season with a 100+ pts superstar and he still couldn’t crack 50? What do you think will happen when you put him with 45-50 points player?

You looking at a singular season and ignoring the two previous seasons where he had 57pts & 59pts. I get it, including those numbers hurts the legitimacy of your post. It could bring into question that Zacha simply how a down year, as did 95% of the Bruins roster. At which point you don't really have anything to counter that statement with.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Can’t see BOS trading Zacha to MTL without Hage going the other way

Please explain how you think Zacha has that kind of trade value?

Habs have zero interest in Zacha when we can just ride with Dach for one more year.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Please explain how you think Zacha has that kind of trade value?

Habs have zero interest in Zacha when we can just ride with Dach for one more year.

Please explain where I said he is actually worth that

I said that’s what they would ask for, Boston isn’t trading a top 6 C to Montreal

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sure I guess, I'd rather shoot higher from Montreal's POV but if this was the best upgrade available I'd do it. I think Newhook involved makes sense for contract considerations. And to be fair he's in a similar boat as Zacha where he had a tough season but looked a lot better the year past, still some upside there but I don't think he's more than a solid 3LW. It's not as if Zacha has a long extensive history of good seasons either

Zacha is not a solution for the Habs. I would say 90% or more of our fan base don't even make the call or want to consider what to trade.

Rather keep Newhook and Dach. Zacha is not that good.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Please explain where I said he has that value

I said that’s what they would ask for, Boston isn’t trading a top 6 C to Montreal

OK... but you do realize that Zacha does not have that kind of trade value right?

Habs are not even making the call to the Bruins on Zacha. So the Bruins won't have any chance to even say the name Hage.

We will just keep Newhook and Dach and get the same results. Zacha is not really a top 2C in my books... maybe a fringe type.

 

[Baksfamous112]

You looking at a singular season and ignoring the two previous seasons where he had 57pts & 59pts. I get it, including those numbers hurts the legitimacy of your post. It could bring into question that Zacha simply how a down year, as did 95% of the Bruins roster. At which point you don't really have anything to counter that statement with.

ok so who were Zacha playing with last year and was he on PP1?

Edit: “During the 2023-2024 season, Pavel Zacha's most frequent teammates were David Pastrnak and Brad Marchand, who he often played with on the same line.”

 

[Habs Halifax]

MTL : #16 + Newhook + Roy
for
Boston : Zacha

Boston looks like their going on a reset so Newhook fit the timeline while getting a mid-round first pick and a decent prospect

MTL needs a better center
Dach-Zacha-Demidov : could be a really good line.

Habs need a center but that center is not Zacha. I very much doubt Hughes even has him on his list to inquire about.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You looking at a singular season and ignoring the two previous seasons where he had 57pts & 59pts. I get it, including those numbers hurts the legitimacy of your post. It could bring into question that Zacha simply how a down year, as did 95% of the Bruins roster. At which point you don't really have anything to counter that statement with.

A true players evaluation is much deeper than your points approach. Domi once had a 72 pts season with the Habs but many flaws to his game as a top 2C.

Zacha is not the type we are after when we can just ride with Newhook and Dach. We are looking for a better upgrade than Zacha and it's debatable that Zacha is even a upgrade.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

ok so who were Zacha playing with last year and was he on PP1?

Edit: “During the 2023-2024 season, Pavel Zacha's most frequent teammates were David Pastrnak and Brad Marchand, who he often played with on the same line.”

Where did you read this stat? I believe largely the line ended up Heinen-Zacha-Pastrnak.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Where did you read this stat? I believe largely the line ended up Heinen-Zacha-Pastrnak.

Imagine playing with Pasta at both 5/5 and on the PP and only getting 47 pts?

61% of offensive zone starts.

Hits/60, Blocks/60 are meh. Below average for what we are looking for.

Giveaways/60 is too high. Takeaways/60 is meh... nothing to brag about.

Only thing I like is he can win a faceoff.

Rather overpay for Horvat. I wouldn't even offer Dach straight up for Zacha.

 

[wintersej]

ok so who were Zacha playing with last year and was he on PP1?

Edit: “During the 2023-2024 season, Pavel Zacha's most frequent teammates were David Pastrnak and Brad Marchand, who he often played with on the same line.”

Its pretty easy to look this stuff up.

20% with both wings
20% with neither wing
60% with Pasta and "other"

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Imagine playing with Pasta at both 5/5 and on the PP and only getting 47 pts?

61% of offensive zone starts.

Hits/60, Blocks/60 are meh. Below average for what we are looking for.

Giveaways/60 is too high. Takeaways/60 is meh... nothing to brag about.

Only thing I like is he can win a faceoff.

Rather overpay for Horvat. I wouldn't even offer Dach straight up for Zacha.

Imagine the 3rd forward being Heinen as well. You may be overeating what Montreal has.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Imagine the 3rd forward being Heinen as well. You may be overeating what Montreal has.

I'm not overrating what Montreal has any more than how you Bruins fans will pump up Zacha. If we had Zacha and were trying to trade him, you would take the same approach.

I want nothing to do with Zacha. I'll take my chances with Dach and Newhook maturing a bit more and throw money at Duchene to sign. He did consider Montreal before.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

polite no.

this year's draft is too weak to deal Zacha for a mid teens pick

 

[Baksfamous112]

Where did you read this stat? I believe largely the line ended up Heinen-Zacha-Pastrnak.

I Googled it and this is the exact quote that came out.

Its pretty easy to look this stuff up.

20% with both wings
20% with neither wing
60% with Pasta and "other"

So he played 80% of his minutes with Pasta? Down year or not, those stats are just not good enough for a C when paired with a 100+ pts player. As my fellow Habs fan said, at this point, I'd rather just give another shot at Newhook or Dach rather than pay a premium asset for Zacha.

 

[Habs Halifax]

polite no.

this year's draft is too weak to deal Zacha for a mid teens pick

That offer is something 95% of the Habs fans would not even do so this trade idea is flawed. Don't kid yourself, the Habs are not knocking on the Zacha door.

We will probably try to sign Duchene or ROR. Or try to trade for Horvat. Or we go one more year with Dach to see if he can stay healthy and gain momentum.

Habs are looking for upgrades and Zacha is not an upgrade for us.

 

[TGWL]

he had 57 and 59 points the two years prior to this one. Pretty clearly a 2nd line centre. He's got term and a good deal. Newhook has no value. Roy is a B level dime a dozen prospect. The real value is 16th overall and it's a very fair price.

The value becomes his placement on a team. Yes, he broke 50 points there twice, but the last time it took 15 powerplay points which he's not getting on Montreal. You gotta pay up to fill holes, so the price they're willing to spend should be based on what they value that hole to be, not what production Zacha has had during those 2 years.

 

[BKarchitect]

Zacha’s game isn’t just about points. His size, versatility and special teams and matchup ability are extremely valued traits in the NHL. He’s in his prime and on a sweetheart deal for the next two seasons. He’d be extremely sought by a bevy of teams if truly available. He does the “stuff” and has the size teams are looking desperately for in the middle.

The OP package is fine and if you simply “stack assets” it may even seem like an overpay. I think it’s a situation where “objects in mirror appear more valuable than they truly are”. Comparing Newhook’s production to Zacha’s is irrelevant. Zacha does and has almost all the traits Newhook doesn’t that make him a valuable piece on any team. Roy is interesting but not even close to a sure thing. The first is the main piece which is fine an probably a prerequisite but given Zacha’s contract, not enough to be the star of the show.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I Googled it and this is the exact quote that came out.


So he played 80% of his minutes with Pasta? Down year or not, those stats are just not good enough for a C when paired with a 100+ pts player. As my fellow Habs fan said, at this point, I'd rather just give another shot at Newhook or Dach rather than pay a premium asset for Zacha.

The other winger was Heinen.

 

[Michoulicious]

Zacha is bad.

Not worth #16 at all.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The value becomes his placement on a team. Yes, he broke 50 points there twice, but the last time it took 15 powerplay points which he's not getting on Montreal. You gotta pay up to fill holes, so the price they're willing to spend should be based on what they value that hole to be, not what production Zacha has had during those 2 years.

He only had 7 powerplay points this year, and at evens he'd have been Montreal's 4th most productive forward.

Given the pieces montreal seems willing to move, I don't think you're doing better than Zacha.

 

[Captain Mountain]

He only had 7 powerplay points this year, and at evens he'd have been Montreal's 4th most productive forward.

Given the pieces montreal seems willing to move, I don't think you're doing better than Zacha.

I doubt he'd be Montreal's 4th most productive forward if he didn't have a Pastrnak to play with. His 5v5 on-ice scoring away from Pastrnak was worse than any one of Montreal's middle 6 forwards apart from Laine last season. Even expanding out multiple seasons there's not much reason to think he'd be very productive 5v5 or be a meaningful upgrade on who Montreal has in their pretty lousy middle 6. His value would be defensive, but there are better ways for Montreal to address that.

Montreal is likely willing to move a hell of lot for an actual solution at 2C, but Zacha isn't that. And Montreal's not in a point in their rebuild where trading for incremental improvements of a sub-par group makes any sense. Either pay a lot more for a lot better, pay the same for potentially a lot more but also potentially less, pay less for a gamble (like how Boston acquired Zacha in the first place) or bet on internal improvement. But Zacha is a guy that contending or near contending teams trade for, not teams in Montreal's position.

To say nothing of the fact that Boston and Montreal don't trade with each other.