Move Crosby to first or second line.

[BCCHL inactive]

Spezza is a poor, poor skater and it was obvious that he'll made the sens with 20.

Yes...despite the hype that said he was going to be an NHL star by the time he was 19-20.

Crosby is getting that same hype that said Daigle and Spezza would be NHL stars at young ages. Spezza still has potential, but Daigle was the worst bust in history......and the fact remains that at 16, there is no possible way to tell where he will be when he is 18, and it is especially impossible to say that he will crack an Olympic team full of veteran NHL stars at 18 years of age.

 

[Sweeney]

Crosby will probably not making the Olympics in 2006... Come on!! he will be only 18 years old!!! Okay Simon Gagné did it at 21 years old.. but he had the chance to prove himself before, Crosby will have only a couple of months to prove himself in the NHL (if he's in the NHL at 18). And we alreay have 3 great centers for the Olympics: Peca (if he continue to do well), Joe Thorton and Vinny Lecavalier! Maybe Richards could get there or Comrie! So the chance to see Crosby in the olympic and slim... but they are there!!

For having the chance to see him play often I can say that he is an incredible player, but his linemates in WJC on the powerplay doesnt know how to alimate him... but i understand that Sidney is not their principal player... until next year!

If for the 2005 WJC M-A Pouliot is invited to make the team, imagine how Crosby and Pouliot could find themself on theice after playing a year and a half on the same powerplay line and the same team!

But for the olympics, only time will tell!

 

[THE NEXT ONE #87]

By the way,...

Why do so many guys say that Crosby, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Daigle, Spezza,..etc.. become the best player since Lemieux???

I think Gretzky and Lemieux are untouchable!!!.......

Why not the next Jagr? He was many years the best thread in the NHL!?
Ah,... he's a Czech,... that's way.....

Or Sakic!? Ah,.... he's parents are from Croatia......

I'm a real Crosbyfan, but I must say Ovechkin looked a lot better with 16 as Crosby now......................................................................

 

[Sweeney]

Ovechkin play in Russia and Crosby in Quebec... you cant say thaht he looked better

 

[Pond Hockey]

Does anyone remember when Canada (and the other countries) had to finalize their rosters for the 2002 Olympics at Salt Lake City?

 

[turnbuckle*]

No way would Lindros have made the Canadian olympic team at 18 if NHLers had been around back then. Lindros wasn't even one of the top 3 rookies in the NHL when he broke in, and that was a full year after his draft. Hell, he wasn't even the best Canadian rookie center in 92-93.

We have short memories. Lindros played in the 1991 Canada Cup at the age of 18, a full year before he played in the NHL. He played regularly, provided a physical presence, and had three goals and two assists in 8 games. He also played on the Canadian Olympic team that "season", and had 11 points in leading Canada to an improbable silver medal.

Gretzky played in the 1981 Canada Cup at 20 years of age and was the tournament's top scorer. If there had been a Canada Cup when he was 18/19 he likely would have been there as well.

The Crosby naysayers are starting to remind me of the Gretzky naysayers 25 years ago. Who's to say just what this kid can accomplish? He's achieved everything he's strived for to date.

Gretz wasn't supposed to be a dominant player in his first year of junior, but he soon proved them wrong. He wasn't supposed to make the WJC team at 16, but he not only made the team, he starred. He wasn't expected to do well in the WHA as a skinny 17-year-old - 110 points later people were quiet. Same thing the next season as a gawky, pimple-faced 18-year-old with "no speed". He ties for the NHL lead in points.

I think it's time to face facts ladies and gentlemen; we are looking at the next Canadian phenom.

We should also face reality and not expect Crosby to come along and start breaking Gretzky's records. The game has changed too much, from the mass influx of Europeans, meaning an overall improvement in the average player, resulting in more parity in scoring statistics. There are no players scoring 50 or 60 more points than everyone else like Gretz often did because the average player today is much closer in talent to the elite players. Not to mention the changes in coaching strategies, which has resulted in today's stingy goal totals. That is not about to change overnight either; not as long as coaches want to keep their jobs with wins.

I am not predicting one way or another whether Crosby will be a consideration for the 2006 olympic team; it's way too early to make such a bold prognostication; but I also think it's wrong to boldly predict that he stands no chance whatsoever.

If someone had told me when Lindros was 16 that he'd be one of Canada's top three centers in the Canada Cup at the age of 18, I would have thought he was crazy. Yet it happened. So who's to say it won't, or can't happen again?

 

[David]

I wouldn't touch the Tamby/Dixon/Crosby line, they've been working really well together. If you're going to promote one, promote all three. That line's been making things happen.

~Canucklehead~

I don't think that they have been working well together at all.

If Tambellini had more touch, he would have converted on at least a half a dozen set ups by Sidney Crosby by now...(although some of the set ups have come so unexpectedly and were so creative that he may not have expected them at all). I've almost come to a point where I started wondering if Tambellini made the team on his name alone...'cos so far, he has not been good at all! The fast skating and the effort is there by the three on this line but it's obvious that they're not clicking. Looks like Sid started taking more shots himself because Tambellini has not been able to finish when Sid sets him up so beautifully, albeit so unexpectedly.

It is my opinion that Sid's point totals will be much better to this point if he was on the second line as someone else had mentioned. He could use the extra room created by the bigger bodies on the second line instead of having to do ALL of the dirty work himself with his smallish body! However, even with this, it's been pretty incredible how GOOD Sid has been on a limited role, playing on the fourth line basically as a checker! It's pretty unbelieveable that such a small body can create scoring chances out of virtually nothing almost every shift!

Let me just conclude by saying that I've been much more impressed with Sidney's debut at WJC than with Ovechkin's debut last year. Sid has been much more effective and dangerous than Ovechkin was last year, although he's playing a completely different role than Ovechkin was. Ovechkin was on the top line replacing Zherdev as their main man being used in all critiacal situations.

 

[ehc73]

IMO, it's easier to put a young rising star on the WJC squad than it is for an Olympic squad. Crosby isn't the go-to guy on the team, and recently younger players haven't received that much ice time. Bouwmeester was an NHL regular right after he was drafted but played limited minutes as a 16 year old on the WJC squad. Spezza spent two years in the minors. Unless Crosby is drafted by a team with a shallow talent pool(ie like Columbus with Nash or Pittsburgh with Fleury), he probably will be put in the minors for development. That said, he hasn't finished growing yet either, so he could very well turn into a Forsberg and be ridiculously strong on the puck. This would definitely help boost his game.
Also, who is to say how he adapts to the NHL? You also have to factor in injuries by the time 2006 rolls around. Yzerman played on the 2002 squad and he had a bum knee. You can definitely bet Sakic will be on the team for veteran presence. Then you have Thornton, and probably Peca as the checker. But if any of them are having bad years, maybe the selection committee will take the guy on a hot streak. Does Crosby have a chance? I'd say yes. Is it likely? Probably not, but then we don't know what'll happen.
Back to the topic at hand, Durochers is rolling four lines right now and all four lines are demonstrating chemistry and effectiveness. The big line is there for a reason: THEY ARE BIG. Hard to believe these guys are teenagers at 6'3" and over, but physical domination is their strength. Until scoring starts to faulter, I don't see a reason to start juggling the lines. If it ain't broke...

 

[HF2002]

By the way,...

Why do so many guys say that Crosby, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Daigle, Spezza,..etc.. become the best player since Lemieux???

I think Gretzky and Lemieux are untouchable!!!.......

Why not the next Jagr? He was many years the best thread in the NHL!?
Ah,... he's a Czech,... that's way.....

Or Sakic!? Ah,.... he's parents are from Croatia......

I'm a real Crosbyfan, but I must say Ovechkin looked a lot better with 16 as Crosby now......................................................................

If you'll take the time to read what you wrote you answered your own question, at least the first one anyway. There haven't been any scouts brave enough to say that any of these players that you mentioned are as good or are going to be as good as Gretzky and Lemieux. To do so would be suicide for a scouts reputation. That's why they'll only go so far as to say that (insert player name here) is the best prospect to come along since Lemieux.

As for the BS you wrote about players with names like Jagr and Sakic not getting recognition because their names aren't "Canadian"...I suggest you live in Canada for a while before you make such blatherings. Besides, don't you live in Switzerland? Your house would be made of glass too then, wouldn't it - or more accurately, a much more expensive glass that was probably hidden in a bank somewhere, kept from its rightful owner because the paperwork got lost during the war, only to then be claimed by the government.

If these players "don't get the recognition because of their name" was a true statement, how do you explain a guy like Yzerman get any recognition? Or how is it that Sakic is such a popular Canadian player? Or even GRETZKY!! How about him? Don Cherry does not speak for this country on any hockey matter. If he can't be bothered to attend the internal hockey summit that Canada had then he has no business speaking as a representative (on the international level) on any issue other than his own beliefs that he's in love with Doug Gilmour and Kirk Muller, and to a lesser extent Tie Dummy.

Jagr isn't as popular because he's a big baby who has an attitude problem. In fact, it's so poor that at one point his own teammate stayed on the ice after practice to kick his ass just to teach him a lesson. He's a guy who owes his fancy lifestyle of expensive cars and and model (ex)girlfriends to hockey and the fans who help pay his huge salary, but he can't be bothered to stick around to sign autographs for kids. As a player, I think Jagr's one of the top 10 of all time - others I'm sure will disagree on this. But as a person....

There are many European players who are very popular around Canada and the US. Go to any NHL city and you'll find that people like players because of their performance on the ice and their attitude off it. Not because of their place of birth.

And if you watch the Senators play at all you'll see that Spezza is not a "poor, poor skater".

 

[Epsilon]

We have short memories. Lindros played in the 1991 Canada Cup at the age of 18, a full year before he played in the NHL. He played regularly, provided a physical presence, and had three goals and two assists in 8 games. He also played on the Canadian Olympic team that "season", and had 11 points in leading Canada to an improbable silver medal.

Gretzky played in the 1981 Canada Cup at 20 years of age and was the tournament's top scorer. If there had been a Canada Cup when he was 18/19 he likely would have been there as well.

Personally I don't think that Canada Cup team was the very best team Canada could put together looking back on it, if every possible player was available and playing. As for the Olympics, again, I said that Lindros wouldn't have made an Olympic team with full NHL participation when he first came in. playing at Albertville (I believe that's the right one) doesn't go anywhere towards contradicting that. As for Gretzky, citing a 20 year old tournament doesn't mean much, because I've never said Crosby couldn't cut it for a Canada team at 20. In fact, I'll say now that he will probably be on the 2008 World Cup team if that's still going on. And at 18/19, Gretz had also been playing pro hockey in the WHA for at least a year, maybe two. There's also the little matter of him being the best player of all time.

 

[Epsilon]

By the way,...

Why do so many guys say that Crosby, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Daigle, Spezza,..etc.. become the best player since Lemieux???

I think Gretzky and Lemieux are untouchable!!!.......

Why not the next Jagr? He was many years the best thread in the NHL!?
Ah,... he's a Czech,... that's way.....

Or Sakic!? Ah,.... he's parents are from Croatia......

I'm a real Crosbyfan, but I must say Ovechkin looked a lot better with 16 as Crosby now......................................................................

That has nothing to do with it. People say "next Gretzky" or "next Lemieux" because that's the level of hype they want to go for. "Next Jagr" or "next Sakic" doesn't sound anywhere near as sexy for the hype machine, despite the fact that most of these kids will be extremely lucky if they ever put up the personal and team successes those two did.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

By the way,...

Why do so many guys say that Crosby, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Daigle, Spezza,..etc.. become the best player since Lemieux???

I think Gretzky and Lemieux are untouchable!!!.......

Why not the next Jagr? He was many years the best thread in the NHL!?
Ah,... he's a Czech,... that's way.....

Or Sakic!? Ah,.... he's parents are from Croatia......

I'm a real Crosbyfan, but I must say Ovechkin looked a lot better with 16 as Crosby now......................................................................

Have you even watched the Canadian games?

If not for fanning on shots and missing shots by his teemates, not to mention some stellar goaltending, Corsby would have 10 points by now.

He looks fantastic.

 

[turnbuckle*]

Personally I don't think that Canada Cup team was the very best team Canada could put together looking back on it, if every possible player was available and playing. .

The Canada Cup is the only accurate gauge we have from the time period as the best Canucks didn't compete in the Olympics. You cannot dispute the fact that Lindros played at 18 years of age in the top tournament of the time, and played well. Why you failed to mention this in your original argument tells me that you are twisting the facts to suit your argument, conveniently leaving out the fact that Lindros played on a Canadian all-star team as an 18-year-old. A fact is a fact. As for it not being our best team, who's to say there won't be some players injured before the 2006 Olympics? Canada has NEVER sent it's absolute best to a competition, there's always at least one major injury or holdout, including Patrick Roy at the 2002 Olympics. I guess that means it wasn't our best team, so it shouldn't count given your logic.

[/QUOTE]As for the Olympics, again, I said that Lindros wouldn't have made an Olympic team with full NHL participation when he first came in. playing at Albertville (I believe that's the right one) doesn't go anywhere towards contradicting that. .[/QUOTE]

Oh...well..you've said that Lindros wouldn't have made the team...I guess we'll just take that as gospel then. That is your very own opinion, and one that is very debatable IMO. I'd like a list of all the all-star forwards that supposedly rejected offers to play in the 1991 Canada Cup. You make it sound like the team was a collection of has beens. That would be the farthest thing from the truth.

QUOTE]As for Gretzky, citing a 20 year old tournament doesn't mean much, because I've never said Crosby couldn't cut it for a Canada team at 20. /QUOTE]

Can you say this in English? What exactly is our point? A 20-year-old tournament? Do you mean a tournament for 20-year-olds, or a tournament from 20 years ago? You got me on this one.

/QUOTE] In fact, I'll say now that he will probably be on the 2008 World Cup team if that's still going on. And at 18/19, Gretz had also been playing pro hockey in the WHA for at least a year, maybe two. There's also the little matter of him being the best player of all time.[/QUOTE]

There you go talking in circles again. I'm not sure what Crosby being 21-22 in 2008 has to do with Gretzky playing in the WHA as a 17-year-old, but I'm sure you'll enlighten me.

As for Gretz being the best player of all time, that is again your opinion. If being the best player of all time means being a spectacular point producer who rarely backchecked or hit, then he wins going away. I've got a different opinion on that, but it has nothing to do with what we are debating, so I'll keep it to myself.

You are saying there is no way Crosby will play on the 2006 Canadian Olympic team...i'm saying...who really knows? I am not a seer, and neither for that matter are you.

 

[Epsilon]

Replying to this is going to be a mess but I'll try to fix the quote tags.

The Canada Cup is the only accurate gauge we have from the time period as the best Canucks didn't compete in the Olympics. You cannot dispute the fact that Lindros played at 18 years of age in the top tournament of the time, and played well. Why you failed to mention this in your original argument tells me that you are twisting the facts to suit your argument, conveniently leaving out the fact that Lindros played on a Canadian all-star team as an 18-year-old. A fact is a fact. As for it not being our best team, who's to say there won't be some players injured before the 2006 Olympics? Canada has NEVER sent it's absolute best to a competition, there's always at least one major injury or holdout, including Patrick Roy at the 2002 Olympics. I guess that means it wasn't our best team, so it shouldn't count given your logic. Oh...well..you've said that Lindros wouldn't have made the team...I guess we'll just take that as gospel then. That is your very own opinion, and one that is very debatable IMO. I'd like a list of all the all-star forwards that supposedly rejected offers to play in the 1991 Canada Cup. You make it sound like the team was a collection of has beens. That would be the farthest thing from the truth.

Centers who missed the 1991 Canada Cup tournament: Mario Lemieux, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Adam Oates, and probably some others. Where did I say it was a team of has-beens? All I said was that it wasn't the strongest lineup Canada could theoretically have iced.

an you say this in English? What exactly is our point? A 20-year-old tournament? Do you mean a tournament for 20-year-olds, or a tournament from 20 years ago? You got me on this one.

I meant that the fact Gretzky played in a top-level tournament at 20 is not particularly relevant to the issue at hand, because there is a big difference between a 20 year old Gretzky and any 18 year old player. Hell, last year Dany Heatley nearly made the Canadian olympic team at 20 according to many reports. Once again, 20 is not 18.

There you go talking in circles again. I'm not sure what Crosby being 21-22 in 2008 has to do with Gretzky playing in the WHA as a 17-year-old, but I'm sure you'll enlighten me.

Apparently you have a hard to separating one point from the next.

As for Gretz being the best player of all time, that is again your opinion. If being the best player of all time means being a spectacular point producer who rarely backchecked or hit, then he wins going away. I've got a different opinion on that, but it has nothing to do with what we are debating, so I'll keep it to myself.

I certainly am not wasting time on this issue since it's been debated ad nauseum on the NHL board.

You are saying there is no way Crosby will play on the 2006 Canadian Olympic team...i'm saying...who really knows? I am not a seer, and neither for that matter are you.

I am making a prediction, in response to claims asserted by other posters. If you only want to talk about stuff that's already happened and not have to ever stick your neck out and make a call, the History of Hockey board is down the page.