Most overhyped prospects in recent memory?

[Garbageyuk]

The number of posters who said he’d hit 80-100 points is irrelevant.

No it isn’t. You really lack the ability to understand even basic concepts.

Large numbers of people and media saying he’ll score above point per game, score 100+ points, calling him generational, saying he’ll run away with the Calder is pure hype. Michkov failed to live up to that hype. This is a thread about players failing to live up to the hype.

You’d think this would be pretty easy to follow, but apparently it isn’t for you and is melting your brain and causing you to spam logical fallacies incessantly as a form of lashing out. Just take a break buddy.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

No it isn’t. You really lack the ability to understand even basic concepts.

Large numbers of people and media saying he’ll score above point per game, score 100+ points, calling him generational, saying he’ll run away with the Calder is pure hype. Michkov failed to live up to that hype. This is a thread about players failing to live up to the hype.

You’d think this would be pretty easy to follow, but apparently it isn’t for you and is melting your brain and causing you to spam logical fallacies incessantly as a form of lashing out. Just take a break buddy.

Nobody in the media predicted he’d hit 80-100 points. The preseason narrative was he’d be fighting with Celebrini for the Calder. It took a historic season from Hutson to change the narrative.

Here is a HF poll. Vast majority said between 60-70. Rest said less.

Thread 'How Many Points Does Matvei Michkov Get Next Season'

Jun 24, 2024

Now that it's pretty much confirmed that he will play next year, how well do you expect him to do offensively next season? Assume he's playing 82 games.

• Laveuglette
• Replies: 33
• Forum: Polls - (hockey-related only)

 

[Shonky]

No it isn’t. You really lack the ability to understand even basic concepts.

Large numbers of people and media saying he’ll score above point per game, score 100+ points, calling him generational, saying he’ll run away with the Calder is pure hype. Michkov failed to live up to that hype. This is a thread about players failing to live up to the hype.

You’d think this would be pretty easy to follow, but apparently it isn’t for you and is melting your brain and causing you to spam logical fallacies incessantly as a form of lashing out. Just take a break buddy.

Still waiting for mass examples of 100 point predictions. You're talking outta your ass and want this convo to end. Take your break buddy

 

[Garbageyuk]

The fallacy is thinking a top prospect who had a strong rookie season but finished fourth in Calder voting is the definition of overhyped (per the OPs definition)

You are being dishonest about this as well. This is what OP asked:

It made me wonder, what other prospects have gotten unjust media attention, or hype in recent years. Guys that maybe wern’t busts but didn’t live up to how people talked about them before they made the show.

Michkov fits the bill. I’ll ask again; are you even capable of arguing in good faith, without the use of logical fallacies and dishonest tactics? It doesn’t seem like you are, nor does it even seem like you understand what logical fallacies are, let alone that your are using them repeatedly.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

You are being dishonest about this as well. This is what OP asked:

Michkov fits the bill. I’ll ask again; are you even capable of arguing in good faith, without the use of logical fallacies and dishonest tactics? It doesn’t seem like you are, nor does it even seem like you understand what logical fallacies are, let alone that your are using them repeatedly.

Again, not being a Calder finalist does not discredit the leading rookie goal-scorer’s season, nor does it make him “overhyped”. It speaks to the strength of the rookie class, which any academic hockey fan would acknowledge.

The data says that had Michkov played as often as Bedard or Celebrini or Hutson, with a liberal, progressive coach to boot, he would have eclipsed a point per game, and mostly at 5v5. This is at the crux of his Calder snub.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Nobody in the media predicted he’d hit 80-100 points.

I never said they did. I said plenty of posters on here did, and that the media had him as the overwhelming favourite for the Calder. You are dishonestly trying to conflate the two.

Still waiting for mass examples of 100 point predictions.

Look in the threads I told you to. You looked in one thread that had 34 replies. I also never said that there weren’t also plenty of rational takes that ended up being accurate.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I never said they did. I said plenty of posters on here did, and that the media had him as the overwhelming favourite for the Calder. You are dishonestly trying to conflate the two.

Look in the threads I told you to. You looked in one thread that had 34 replies. I also never said that there weren’t also plenty of rational takes that ended up being accurate.

Post the links.

Here’s your quote:

“Large numbers of people and media saying he’ll score above point per game, score 100+ points, calling him generational, saying he’ll run away with the Calder is pure hype.”

So, post links to:

1) “Large numbers of people saying he’ll score above point per game.”

2) “Large numbers of people and media saying he’ll…score 100+ points.”

3. “Large numbers of people and media saying he’ll run away with the Calder...”

 

[Garbageyuk]

Again, not being a Calder finalist does not discredit the leading rookie goal-scorer’s season

More logical fallacies. I never said that it did, and I’m not even sure how you could “discredit” what he did. You can critique it, analyze it, compare it, but “discredit”? Did I claim that he did not score 63 points or somehow cheated to reach that figure? That’s what your strange “discredit” narrative implies. Bizarre.

nor does it make him “overhyped”

It does according to the hype I specified, which was perfectly in line with what the OP asked.

This is at the crux of his Calder snub.

The crux of his “snub” is that there were 3 rookies better than him this year. Grasping at straws by citing obscure situational rate metrics, and extrapolating that into something that doesn’t exist is pure comedy, especially knowing that Hutson is a defenseman and Celebrini is younger and vastly superior defensively.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Post the links.

Here’s your quote:

“Large numbers of people and media saying he’ll score above point per game, score 100+ points, calling him generational, saying he’ll run away with the Calder is pure hype.”

So, post links to:

1) “Large numbers of people saying he’ll score above point per game.”

2) “Large numbers of people and media saying he’ll…score 100+ points.”

3. “Large numbers of people and media saying he’ll run away with the Calder...”

Post the links showing media bias against him.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

More logical fallacies. I never said that it did, and I’m not even sure how you could “discredit” what he did. You can critique it, analyze it, compare it, but “discredit”? Did I claim that he did not score 63 points or somehow cheated to reach that figure? That’s what your strange “discredit” narrative implies. Bizarre.

It does according to the hype I specified, which was perfectly in line with what the OP asked.

The crux of his “snub” is that there were 3 rookies better than him this year. Grasping at straws by citing obscure situational rate metrics, and extrapolating that into something that doesn’t exist is pure comedy, especially knowing that Hutson is a defenseman and Celebrini is younger and vastly superior defensively.

Three rookies having arguably better or more valuable seasons does not diminish or marginalize Michkov’s season, which you’re clearly trying to do for the last eight months. Again, this line of thinking means you think Carey Price was “overhyped” for failing to become a finalist for the 2009 Calder despite being the top-rated rookie in all of hockey.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Post the links showing media bias against him.

Did already.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Three rookies having arguably better or more valuable seasons does not diminish or marginalize Michkov’s season, which you’re clearly trying to do for the last eight months. Again, this line of thinking means you think Carey Price was “overhyped” for failing to become a finalist for the 2009 Calder despite being the top-rated rookie in all of hockey.

I’m not saying here that it did. His season is what it is. He wasn’t as good as the 3 other rookies in question, and thus, does not deserve to be a Calder finalist, which most rational people agree with, as evidenced by the fact that he is not in fact a finalist.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Did already.

Nope, they didn’t show what you claimed at all. I already explained this to you. You ignored it.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Projection. You were lying about the media being biased against him.

I posted evidence. No other prospect from that 2023 class was scrutinized as much as Michkov.

The publisher of the Hockey News is part Ukrainian and wrote a column in the 2022 draft preview that drafting Russians was problematic and they could be used as front-line soldiers. Lo and behold, Ryan Kennedy of THN kickstarted rumors in January 2023 that Michkov — the consensus preseason No. 2 — had character issues. This started a months-long character assassination by the media and several draft pundits.

You were given several links by reputable media sources and discredited them out of hand.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I posted evidence. No other prospect from that 2023 class was scrutinized as much as Michkov.

The publisher of the Hockey News is part Ukrainian and wrote a column in the 2022 draft preview that drafting Russians was problematic and they could be used as front-line soldiers. Lo and behold, Ryan Kennedy of THN kickstarted rumors in January 2023 that Michkov — the consensus preseason No. 2 — had character issues. This started a months-long character assassination by the media and several draft pundits.

You were given several links by reputable media sources and discredited them out of hand.

The problem is, none of your links showed any of this. I broke it down for you. You ignored it.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

The problem is, none of your links showed any of this. I broke it down for you. You ignored it.

Of course they did. Kennedy started the “character concerns” narrative. The top hockey podcast in the world took it to an even deeper level.

McKenzie wrote:

“Michkov’s circumstances contribute to, and negatively impact, the evaluation of the player and where he’ll sit on NHL teams’ draft lists on June 28 in Nashville. That goes a long way towards explaining how and why Michkov went from No. 2 on TSN’s pre-season list to No. 4 at mid-season.”

Keep in mind Jerry Forton at the 2023 draft debunked McKenzie’s claim that scouts had a tough time scouting Michkov in Russia because of the war. Forton said they had no issues and in some cases had an easier time “getting access” to Russian prospects than some from North America.

Roustan’s column was titled “Russian Sanction Risk”.

He wrote, “…In addition to the potential public backlash (from drafting Russians), similar to what the Canadiens faced last year, and questions that selecting a Russian might bring while their country has invaded Ukraine, NHL teams also have to wonder if they are in fact throwing away their picks altogether, since these young Russian players may not be coming anytime soon, or at all.”

 

[Mathieukferland]

Alternatesideparking vs Garbageyuk about Michkov

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Hey mods, I’ll take this to the Michkov thread. Sorry about the derailment.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Of course they did. Kennedy started the “character concerns” narrative. The top hockey podcast in the world took it to an even deeper level.

McKenzie wrote:

“Michkov’s circumstances contribute to, and negatively impact, the evaluation of the player and where he’ll sit on NHL teams’ draft lists on June 28 in Nashville. That goes a long way towards explaining how and why Michkov went from No. 2 on TSN’s pre-season list to No. 4 at mid-season.”

Keep in mind Jerry Forton at the 2023 draft debunked McKenzie’s claim that scouts had a tough time scouting Michkov in Russia because of the war. Forton said they had no issues and in some cases had an easier time “getting access” to Russian prospects than some from North America.

Roustan’s column was titled “Russian Sanction Risk”.

He wrote, “…In addition to the potential public backlash (from drafting Russians), similar to what the Canadiens faced last year, and questions that selecting a Russian might bring while their country has invaded Ukraine, NHL teams also have to wonder if they are in fact throwing away their picks altogether, since these young Russian players may not be coming anytime soon, or at all.”

Neither of these show any bias.

Speculating about concerns others may have is not bias; it’s just reporting.

Bias would be a media outlet or pundit saying “Michkov is a risky pick because _____”. Again, speculation about others possibly having these concerns is not the same thing.

“Media bias” also implies a widespread, coordinated effort to slander someone based on false information. This is tinfoil hat territory, but par for the course on HF.

What benefit would the media achieve by having Michkov drafted later? lmao. Absolutely nuts

You are so dishonest it’s comical.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Alternatesideparking vs Garbageyuk about Michkov

Lmao, I’m done though.

 

[frontsfan67]

Doesn’t matter. Michkov still had a worse rookie season than them. The fact that they were older doesn’t magically make Michkov’s season any better.

So 4 extra years of development doesn’t mean anything?

Take your meds

 

[Garbageyuk]

So 4 extra years of development doesn’t mean anything?

Take your meds

Not for Calder voting if the older rookie is better, no. Doesn’t work like that and never has.

Now, pill time for you:

 

[frontsfan67]

Not for Calder voting if the older rookie is better, no. Doesn’t work like that and never has.

Now, pill time for you:

So in 4 years michkov wont be way better? He’s going to peak in his rookie season?

 

[Garbageyuk]

So in 4 years michkov wont be way better? He’s going to peak in his rookie season?

Lol wtf are you taking about? I said age doesn’t factor into Calder voting. I didn’t say anything about what’s going to happen in 4 years. Jesus Christ lol.

 

[frontsfan67]

Lol wtf are you taking about? I said age doesn’t factor into Calder voting. I didn’t say anything about what’s going to happen in 4 years. Jesus Christ lol.

Aware it doesn’t but it should. If there’s an 18 year old doing the same as a 22 year old or a 20 year old doing the same as a 24 year old etc that younger player should win 100x out of 100 because doing that at such a young age is FAR more impressive. That older player has had 4 years more of playing competitive hockey which is a big gap.

In the OHL that’s the difference between someone just drafted and a 19/20 year old vet in the league

Think about Jack Hughes. Year 1 he wasmy very good- 21 points. Year 4 99 points