Most overhyped prospects in recent memory?

[Garbageyuk]

Ok so you’re not going to answer two simple and fair questions and run away instead. Thanks for making it easy for me lol.

Making it easy for you to yammer on to yourself about narratives you’ve invented? Sure .

 

[Garbageyuk]

Can you honestly say it’s fair to judge first year players who are four years apart?

I wasn’t even doing that. I was simply saying that if an older rookie has a better season than a younger one, age isn’t going to factor into Calder voting. That’s completely different than what you are talking about.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

How can you understand it when the other posts it is based on have been deleted? Try making sense.

Because i didn’t just start reading the thread? How about answering @AlternateSideParking?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

“Engage my strawman, come on do it! It’s all I’ve got!”

You brought up Calder voting as an example and are now calling the very basis for your argument a strawman lol.

To quote you: “Meanwhile, he couldn’t outscore Hutson and isn’t even a finalist for the Calder.”

How about you just admit that using Calder voting hurt your argument more than it helped lol.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Because i didn’t just start reading the thread? How about answering @AlternateSideParking?

I have answered him. I’m not under any obligation to explore narratives he’s dishonesty curated to frame things a certain way. He’s doing nothing but spamming logical fallacies.

 

[Garbageyuk]

You brought up Calder voting as an example and are now calling the very basis for your argument a strawman lol.

How about you just admit that using Calder voting hurt your argument more than it helped lol.

Nope, you just don’t understand how logical fallacies work which is why you are so reliant on them and are under the impression that the other person is obligated to entertain them. Again, you are showing zero ability to argue in good faith or think critically.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I wasn’t even doing that. I was simply saying that if an older rookie has a better season than a younger one, age isn’t going to factor into Calder voting. That’s completely different than what you are talking about.

But we aren’t children who can’t read in between the lines. Why even bring up Calder votes in the first place?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Nope, you just don’t understand how logical fallacies work which is why you are so reliant on them and are under the impression that the other person is obligated to entertain them. Again, you are showing zero ability to argue in good faith or think critically.

You’re denying you said this?

“Meanwhile, he couldn’t outscore Hutson and isn’t even a finalist for the Calder.”

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I have answered him. I’m not under any obligation to explore narratives he’s dishonesty curated to frame things a certain way. He’s doing nothing but spamming logical fallacies.

Nothing I wrote is dishonest. All my stats are straight from Natural Stat Trick, Calder results from Hockey Reference, and I literally quoted the Hockey News and Bob Gainey. Answer the damn questions or take a hike.

 

[keppel146]

I remember Wings fans absolutely losing their minds about Mantha after this D+1 season

Reasons like this are why I keep expectations low on prospects. I remember when the Wild signed Gelinas after his 92 pt year.

 

[Garbageyuk]

You’re denying you said this?

“Meanwhile, he couldn’t outscore Hutson and isn’t even a finalist for the Calder.”

What does your strawman arguments about Price and others being over-hyped have to do with this?

Nobody was calling Price generational heading into his rookie season and predicting he’d win major awards like they did with Michkov. That is the key difference you keep conveniently ignoring.

Also, you said that you were going to provide sources showing that the media was biased against Michkov, which I invited you to do. You never did.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

 

[Peasy]

I remember people making a huge stink about how Joshua Roy had to go back to the Q for his D+2. Well 2 years later the guy still isnt sticking in the NHL...

 

[AlternateSideParking]

What does your strawman arguments about Price and other being over-hyped have to do with this?

Nobody was calling Price generational heading into his rookie season and predicting he’d win major awards like they did with Michkov. That is the key difference you keep conveniently ignoring.

Also, you said that you were going to provide sources showing that the media was biased against Michkov, which I invited you to do. You never did.

I’m just attacking your rationale, i.e., a 20-year-old leading rookie goal-scorer is “overhyped” because of where he finished in the Calder voting. You are literally quoted saying this. Price is one of many examples that proves your line of thinking to be faulty. And he was fifth overall in the Crosby draft, was the No. 1 prospect in all of hockey, and was compared to Roy — I’d say for goalies that is the epitome of generational hype.

And like I said, Google is your friend. There were dozens of anti-Michkov reports before the draft. Here are the more prominent ones.

Hockey News
Friedman
Spittin Chiclets
TSN

Now it’s your turn — answer the questions. A simple yes or no will do.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I remember people making a huge stink about how Joshua Roy had to go back to the Q for his D+2. Well 2 years later the guy still isnt sticking in the NHL...

Under the new rules. CHLers like Roy are perfect for playing their D+1 &/or D+2 in the NCAA instead of going back to junior.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I’m just attacking your rationale, i.e., a 20-year-old leading rookie goal-scorer is “overhyped” because of where he finished in the Calder voting.

That wasn’t my rationale at all. My rationale is that he was heavily hyped on here as being generational and expected to put up anywhere from a p/gp to 100+ points in his rookie season. These predictions were based on his “record setting” KHL years. He did not meet this hype, and didn’t even come close.

The Calder voting point was due to your claim that the media was biased against him, which I showed to be bullshit. Major Canadian hockey media had him as the resounding favourite to win the Calder. He also did not deliver on that hype, and again, he didn’t come close as he is not even a finalist. This point has nothing to do with anything other than the hype from before the season, so stop trying to make it about his future potential or what may happen from here.

And like I said, Google is your friend. There were dozens of anti-Michkov reports before the draft. Here are the more prominent ones.

So the first link is just a clickbait piece claiming there is bias against him, but it doesn’t provide any actual examples of it in the media.

The other ones are just saying that scouts may not have been able to view him as much due to the geopolitical situation and resulting ban on Russia participating in IIHF tournaments. Well duh.

The last one is f***ing noted shit disturber Paul Bissonnette talking shit as usual on his podcast dedicated to talking shit.

Still no examples of any actual media bias by reputable sources. You said you’d provide some - please do. It’s not my responsibility to back up your claims for you.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

That wasn’t my rationale at all. My rationale is that he was heavily hyped on here as being generational and expected to put up anywhere from a p/gp to 100+ points in his rookie season. These predictions were based on his “record setting” KHL years. He did not meet this hype, and didn’t even come close.

The Calder voting point was due to your claim that the media was biased against him, which I showed to be bullshit. Major Canadian hockey media had him as the resounding favourite to win the Calder. He also did not deliver on that hype, and again, he didn’t come close as he is not even a finalist. This point has nothing to do with anything other than the hype from before the season, so stop trying to make it about his future potential or what may happen from here.

So the first link is just a clickbait piece claiming there is bias against him, but it doesn’t provide any actual examples of it in the media.

The other ones are just saying that scouts may not have been able to view him as much due to the geopolitical situation and resulting ban on Russia participating in IIHF tournaments. Well duh.

The last one is f***ing noted shit disturber Paul Bissonnette talking shit as usual on his podcast dedicated to talking shit.

Still no examples of any actual media bias by reputable sources. You said you’d provide some - please do. It’s not my responsibility to back up your claims for you.

See bolded. The OP asked for media examples of overhyping. You cite posters on here then used a single preseason Calder poll. Now you’re backtracking from the Calder example lol and focusing on the opinions of posters.

You yourself preferred Bedard and predicted 80-90 points from him and he failed to register a point a game and he still won the Calder by a wide margin. Explain that one.

Discrediting the source of reports doesn’t change the fact that Michkov was subjected to months of negative coverage and was dropped in the rankings because if it. McKenzie’s rhetoric is far from positive.

But again, you used Calder voting as the basis of your argument.

Personally, I think you’re scared to answer two simple yes-or-no questions because either one will finally collapse your ridiculous rationale once and for all.

 

[Stelio Kontos]

Samuel Morin

 

[Garbageyuk]

You then used a single preseason Calder poll. Now you’re backtracking from the Calder example lol.

It isn’t backtracking; I’m simply not accepting your attempt to frame it a different way.

Discrediting the source of reports doesn’t change the fact that Michkov was subjected to months of negative coverage and was dropped in the rankings because if it. McKenzie’s rhetoric is far from positive.

Discrediting? Pointing out that they are not showing what you claim is discrediting? The only one I discredited is BizNasty lol for obvious reasons.

You yourself preferred Bedard and predicted 80-90 points from him and he failed to register a point a game and he still won the Calder by a wide margin. Explain that one.

Irrelevant to the discussion, and yet another red herring.

But again, you used Calder voting as the basis of your argument.

Again, you are taking the point out of context and trying to frame it according to your own made up narrative.

Personally, I think you’re scared to answer two simple yes-or-no questions because either one will finally collapse your ridiculous rationale once and for all.

How many times do you have to be told that I am not obligated to entertain your logical fallacies and dishonest tactics, and that you are clearly trying to twist the discussion to suit your false premise. You’ve been called out repeatedly for misrepresenting the Calder voting point as something else by taking it out of context and claiming it was the “basis” of my argument. Why do you continue to try this angle when you know I’m not going to fall for it? It’s all you have; that’s why.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

It isn’t backtracking; I’m simply not accepting your attempt to frame it a different way.

Discrediting? Pointing out that they are not showing what you claim is discrediting? The only one I discredited is BizNasty lol for obvious reasons.

Irrelevant to the discussion, and yet another red herring.

Again, you are taking the point out of context and trying to frame it according to your own made up narrative.

How many times do you have to be told that I am not obligated to entertain your logical fallacies and dishonest tactics, and that you are clearly trying to twist the discussion to suit your false premise. You’ve been called out repeatedly for misrepresenting the Calder voting point as something else by taking it out of context and claiming it was the “basis” of my argument. Why do you continue to try this angle when you know I’m not going to fall for it? It’s all you have; that’s why.

How the hell is “Meanwhile, he couldn’t outscore Hutson and isn’t even a finalist for the Calder” taken out of context?

These are YOUR words bro lol.

 

[Garbageyuk]

How the hell is “Meanwhile, he couldn’t outscore Hutson and isn’t even a finalist for the Calder” taken out of context?

These are YOUR words bro lol.

I’ve explained this to you several times. You simply ignore it and keep repeating the same thing over and over. It was in response to his Calder hype from before the season. It was a supporting point, not the basis of my argument despite your relentless insistence that it was. Again, that’s you trying frame the discussion to suit your own narrative.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I’ve explained this to you several times. You simply ignore it and keep repeating the same thing over and over. It was in response to his Calder hype from before the season. It was a supporting point, not the basis of my argument despite your relentless insistence that it was. Again, that’s you trying frame the discussion according to suit your own narrative.

So your basis is….the exaggerated opinions of three or four posters who thought he’d hit 80-100 points when the OP specifically asked for media examples.

You then use Calder voting as a “supporting point”, which is clearly a fallacy according to ample historical data you were presented with (non-Calder finalists who became stars and the Price example), and you then incorrectly labeled this as a strawman when it clearly debunks the idea that only being a Calder finalist can prevent a prospect from being “overhyped”.

How about you just admit you’re obsessed with hating Michkov and your hate — going on two years now — has you dismissing empirical data (KHL records and U20 NHL scoring rates) that show Michkov was the farthest thing from overhyped.

 

[Garbageyuk]

So your basis is….the exaggerated opinions of three or four posters who thought he’d hit 80-100 points

You’ve also been told numerous times that it was much more than just a few posters. I also told you where you can look to see for yourself. You continue to ignore and repeat your nonsense over and over.

You then use Calder voting as a “supporting point”, which is clearly a fallacy according to ample historical data you were presented with

How is it a fallacy? He did not live up to the pre season hype that I was talking about, which was that he was supposed to win the Calder, according to major media outlets and pundits. The point supporting that is that he wasn’t even a finalist. That is literal fact. Explain to me where the fallacy is in this?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Based on the extremely vocal supporters on this site, James Hagens.

It's only one troll ruining those threads.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

You’ve also been told numerous times that it was much more than just a few posters. I also told you where you can look to see for yourself. You continue to ignore and repeat your nonsense over and over.

How is it a fallacy? He did not live up to the pre season hype that I was talking about, which was that he was supposed to win the Calder, according to major media outlets and pundits. The point supporting that is that he wasn’t even a finalist. That is literal fact. Explain to me where the fallacy is in this?

The number of posters who said he’d hit 80-100 points is irrelevant. The OP specifically asked for media examples.

The fallacy is thinking a top prospect who had a strong rookie season but finished fourth in Calder voting is the definition of overhyped (per the OPs definition) and an accurate representation of his season. You literally used Trent Hunter and Michael Ryder as examples against Michkov. Hence, the Price example, which you dismissed as a strawman.