Most dominant era in international hockey history?

[JackSlater]

The Canadian teams of the 60's were amateurs in every sense of the word. The soviet players were paid professionals.

Simply declaring the soviet player as amateur isn't much of an argument,. either.

He's just going to fight the battle of semantics. The main point is that the Soviets had access to their best players, while Canada had access to none of its best players. Some people are going to do anything they can to avoid admitting that reality.

 

[NyQuil]

It has no relevance whatsoever to my point about 1960s Team Canada being de facto professionals, though.

A shame that Canada wasn't allowed to bring their other de facto professionals to international tournaments.

I'm sure you'll agree that this was both an injustice and a tragedy.

 

[Theokritos]

The main point is that the Soviets had access to their best players, while Canada had access to none of its best players.

Agreed. Though It's worth pointing out that the statement "the Canadian teams of the 60's were amateurs in every sense of the word" is wrong. The Canadians were almost as professional as the Soviets. Both can be described as "shamateurs", but the Canadian ones were mostly recruited from the second and third talent tier of their country and the Soviet ones from the first of their country.

 

[Vladiator]

A shame that Canada wasn't allowed to bring their other de facto professionals to international tournaments.

I'm sure you'll agree that this was both an injustice and a tragedy.

"Professional" is defined as a person "engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur". It has nothing to do with how good the person is in their occupation or whether there are better professionals.

In this context, were Canadian players professionals or not?

 

[Samzilla]

I'd trade all of TC's recent achievements to see my team win the cup just once. But it's been nice to watch us do well these past 5 years.

 

[DesertHombre]

The USSR (Soviet Union) won Gold in pretty much every Olympic Hockey tournament from 1956 -1992. I'd say that is pretty dominant.
I know many will argue that the pros did not play back in those days, but even in 1972, Canada's NHLers were seconds away from being beaten by the Soviet Red Army team.

 

[Theokritos]

Canada's NHLers were seconds away from being beaten by the Soviet Red Army team.

They didn't even play against the "Soviet Red Army team". See post 56.

 

[NyQuil]

"Professional" is defined as a person "engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur". It has nothing to do with how good the person is in their occupation or whether there are better professionals.

In this context, were Canadian players professionals or not?

Using your definition, explain to me how NHLers were precluded from playing in international tournaments while Team Canada and the Soviet Union were not?

 

[Theokritos]

Using your definition, explain to me how NHLers were precluded from playing in international tournaments while Team Canada and the Soviet Union were not?

The name "Team Canada" was invented in 1972, the term you're looking for is Canadian National Team.

As for your question: NHLers were officially professional while the "shamateurs" were not. On paper they made a living out of other occupations.

 

[Macman]

"Professional" is defined as a person "engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur". It has nothing to do with how good the person is in their occupation or whether there are better professionals.

In this context, were Canadian players professionals or not?

No they weren't. The Trail Smoke Eaters, for example, the only Canadian team to win the worlds in the '60s, was made up mostly of working miners and firemen. They had to pay for the trip to Geneva themselves. The town raised $42,000 to send them. The team was a member of the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association and had just lost in the Allen Cup final, which goes to Canada's amateur champions. The suggestion that guys like that were pros is laughable.

 

[Theokritos]

No they weren't.

It depends on what time frame you're looking at, pre-1963 or post-1963. The members of the Canadian National Team were hardly true amateurs.

 

[Macman]

It depends on what time frame you're looking at, pre-1963 or post-1963. The members of the Canadian National Team were hardly true amateurs.

What were they? The guys who played for Father David Bauer on the national team in the 1960s got room, board and tuition at UBC. That was their compensation for playing at the worlds and Olympics. They weren't allowed to be paid.

 

[VMBM]

The USSR (Soviet Union) won Gold in pretty much every Olympic Hockey tournament from 1956 -1992. I'd say that is pretty dominant.
I know many will argue that the pros did not play back in those days, but even in 1972, Canada's NHLers were seconds away from being beaten by the Soviet Red Army team.

No, by the Soviet national team.

The Red Army team did not play against Team Canada, the Soviet national team did. The Red Army team did not play in the World Championships/Olympics, the Soviet national team did.

 

[Jets4Life]

This is the best Canada has ever been and I am truly enjoying it.

However, the Soviets were even more dominant in international hockey back in the 80's.

That's because Canada sent a bunch of amateurs to compete against the Soviets. The only tournament Canada sent it's top players to compete, was the Canada Cup. We won two of the three tournaments.

Today, it's more or less an even playing field, in regards to International Hockey. I just would hope we send our best players to future Olympic Games.

 

[1Gold Standard]

That's because Canada sent a bunch of amateurs to compete against the Soviets. The only tournament Canada sent it's top players to compete, was the Canada Cup. We won two of the three tournaments.

Today, it's more or less an even playing field, in regards to International Hockey. I just would hope we send our best players to future Olympic Games.

There were 5 Canada Cup tournaments. Canada won 4. It morphed into the World Cup and there were 2 tournaments held. (1996/2004) USA won the inaugural World Cup in 96 and Canada won the other.

 

[Theokritos]

That's because Canada sent a bunch of amateurs to compete against the Soviets.

Canada did send professionals to the World Championships starting in 1977.

What were they? The guys who played for Father David Bauer on the national team in the 1960s got room, board and tuition at UBC. That was their compensation for playing at the worlds and Olympics. They weren't allowed to be paid.

It wasn't about the money for them but they got supplied with everything they needed to make a living so that they could train hockey all season long and play on the national team for years. I'd say they qualify as "shamateurs", certainly not "amateurs in every sense of the word" like firemen or miners training in their spare time.

 

[BonAppleTea]

This might be a bit off-topic, but I came to wonder about the 2006 olympics.
Canada ended up in 7th place (which I actually though was fourth before I checked wiki). Was it just a big fluke or did you players have heart attacks before the tournament?
And this is not to tease the Canada-fans in here, but I didn't have the opportunity to watch the group series games.

Regardless I don't think this is the most dominant era in international hockey. After next olympics we might have an answer to that, but I think we will need some more time.

 

[jekoh]

This might be a bit off-topic, but I came to wonder about the 2006 olympics.
Canada ended up in 7th place (which I actually though was fourth before I checked wiki).

4th place was the 1998 Olympics.

Was it just a big fluke or did you players have heart attacks before the tournament?

No, they simply faced better teams.

 

[Macman]

It wasn't about the money for them but they got supplied with everything they needed to make a living so that they could train hockey all season long and play on the national team for years. I'd say they qualify as "shamateurs", certainly not "amateurs in every sense of the word" like firemen or miners training in their spare time.

Playing the semantics card is the last resort of a lost argument. They didn't get paid. They didn't get fake commissions in the military to circumvent IIHF and IOC rules. They were amateurs in every sense of the word.

 

[rfournier103]

Today, it's more or less an even playing field, in regards to International Hockey. I just would hope we send our best players to future Olympic Games.

You and I both.

 

[Theokritos]

They were amateurs in every sense of the word.

Well, I disagree with you based on what I wrote above. Cheers.

 

[canuck2010]

The USSR (Soviet Union) won Gold in pretty much every Olympic Hockey tournament from 1956 -1992. I'd say that is pretty dominant.
I know many will argue that the pros did not play back in those days, but even in 1972, Canada's NHLers were seconds away from being beaten by the Soviet Red Army team.

You know not of what you speak. No way in hell the Soviets win all those gold medals if they had played the best. In fact they would have been defeated quite handily many of those years and at the world championships as well. The myth of the unbeatable Soviet teams in that era was built on an uneven playing field.

 

[canuck2010]

The Soviets and Russian have only ever won 1 (one) best on best title. Staring in 1953 I believe that is 1 (one) in 62 or 63 years.

Not much of a case for dominance is it.

 

[Lepardi]

That's because Canada sent a bunch of amateurs to compete against the Soviets. The only tournament Canada sent it's top players to compete, was the Canada Cup. We won two of the three tournaments.

In tournaments that were rigged. They were rigged for a good cause though, so kudos to Alan Eagleson for rigging them.

In fact they would have been defeated quite handily many of those years and at the world championships as well.

That certainly would have been the case, had the referees been told that Canada must win, like they were in the Canada Cup tournaments. With neutral referees the Soviets would have been pretty strong in every tournament.

 

[Hanji]

In tournaments that were rigged. They were rigged for a good cause though, so kudos to Alan Eagleson for rigging them.

Unfortunately all the Canada Cups and World Cups were conceivably rigged. As recent as the 2004 World Cup the NHL was reportedly attempting to interfere with the Czech's roster selection.